Theo1689
Well-known member
It’s why I never became one
Fortunately for you, you don't have to become one to be saved.
Thoughts on Determinism
- Thread starter Alive
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Fortunately for you, you don't have to become one to be saved.
and many get saved while not one
David1701
Well-known member
To explain further, @David1701 ---I try to write out thoughts briefly saying much with few words. I have found that when I cannot do that, it is because I do not have a thorough grasp myself, on the topic.
Its like any principle in scripture. When I have truly learned a thing and light is shown on it by the Lord--it becomes a part of me and I can usually easily explain in my own words. It just flows.
I simply do not know how God accomplishes what He does in us without violating our wills. I have heard explanations of this, but to me, there is an ingredient (if you will) missing. This leaves me to suspect, that it may be something that we cannot understand fully.
Or, that God simply has not shown me as He has others.
Then--there is also the possibility that our so called free will is not such a precious thing and God will do what He wills as in the case of the 'elect/chosen'.
At least partly, this depends upon what you mean by "violating our wills". Personally, I do not think of God working in us, to will and do of his good pleasure as a violation, since I am very, very pleased that he does this; nor would I have any problem with God restraining evil, either in us, or in unbelievers. I also do not believe that God usually forces people to do things against their will (although there could be exceptions, like Balaam). This leads to another issue, and, I think, the crux of the matter: whose will matters more, God's or man's (there can only be one sovereign will)? The answer is obvious...
No he just changes their will whether it be for evil or good according to Calvinism
Reformedguy
Well-known member
It's to late. Wise up before your next vacation.
Making plans for his vacation?
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guest1
Guest
its the games people play.
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guest1
Guest
yes I once believed in their false teachings and now must expose them . Its no different then a mormon that comes out of morminism, a jw out of the wts, a catholic out from the rcc coming out from the CoC, toronto blessing etc..... the same goes with the false teachings of augustine/calvin. once the stronghold has been removed you want to warn others about the false doctrines you were one blinded by.
Yours Truly, Team Truth !
hope this helps !!!
Cancel culture
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guest1
Guest
they know nothing of bible culture that is for sure.
Dizerner
Well-known member
I'm not sure I'd agree with this point.
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guest1
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and you are correct as adam was still alive and talked with God after the fall and as ephesians 2 says were were dead in our sins yet we were living/breathing people. like everything else "calvin" they conflate and equivocate to support their heretical beliefs.
Sketo
Well-known member
But how is starting at "Adam's choice" "going back to the beginning"?
The bible does not state "In the beginning Adam's choice".
There are preceding circumstances that lead upto "Adam's choice"...
Would Adam have made the same "choice" if God would have determine that Satan not have access to the Garden?
Would Adam have made the same "choice" if God would have determine that The Forbidden Fruit were grotesque to Eves eyes instead of a delight?
Would Adam have made the same "choice" if God would have not placed the Forbidden Tree there in the first place?
God knew Lucifers strengths and weaknesses because he designed him!
God knew Adams weaknesses because he designed him!
God knew Eves weaknesses because he designed her!
God knew the definite outcome when determining Satan’s access into the Garden! (God could have placed Satan on Planet X on the other side of the universe… why didn’t he?)
God knew the consequences of the fall because he designed the consequences! (see Rom 5:18-19)
Adam played his part precisely how God designed him to play his part!
There was no “possibility” of any other outcome because God is in control... not man!
“Freewill” is not an answer for “Adam’s choice”…
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Of course God knows all things before they happen and we know that the Lamb was slain before the foundations were laid, etc.
The beginning I suggested was only to show that Adam had a choice and that choice was made prior to him being corrupted. His will--his freedom to choose--was a different sort of thing before the fall than after the fall.
I was using that as a way of contrasting his choice then-- with God since-- 'determining' the fate of the elect, whose 'will' had been corrupted by sin. God determine's. God Chooses. According to His will and purpose. To save a remnant.
Rom. 3:9 (NAS20S) What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written: “ THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS PERSON, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NO ONE WHO SEEKS OUT GOD;
12 THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME CORRUPT; THERE IS NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
13 “ THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,” “ THE VENOM OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”;
14 “ THEIR MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”;
15 “ THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17 AND THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN THE WAY OF PEACE.”
18 “ THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”
David1701
Well-known member
Many of those whom you would call "Calvinists", were once blinded by doctrines like the ones you now espouse...
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guest1
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or deceived now
David1701
Well-known member
That's impossible. Adam could only have made that sinful choice, if his heart had already become corrupted (even if only a moment before).
That is an interesting contribution and worth thinking about.
It seems you are circling back to a 'strict determinism', which I have no problem with.
Do you think Adam's free will was different before the fall?
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guest1
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no mans free will is the same pre/post fall. He has the freedom to choose to obey God or disobey. No coercion. That free will is the image of God in man. God is a free moral agent and so is man who is made in His image.
Sketo
Well-known member
God is the only reference point that matters in a theological discussion.
Adam’s will was not free from God’s determined circumstances at any point before or after the fall.
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