Throwing 1,000 Consecutive Heads

Judging by the inanities polluting this and other boards, this is a slack period for the surgeon/psychologist/farmer/economist/astronaut/janitor industry. And no yachts to maintain. What is a body to do with their time?
 
Temujin said:
Judging by the inanities polluting this and other boards, this is a slack period for the surgeon/psychologist/farmer/economist/astronaut/janitor industry. And no yachts to maintain. What is a body to do with their time?
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Maybe he could train more of his children to be Olympic athletes? :D
 
Nathan P said:
I am missing no distinction because as has been pointed out all there is for the evos evidence are similarities in the dna and the fossils with no real evidence showing them evolving from one species to another.
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Paleontologists have discovered that new animal forms almost always appear abruptly--not gradually--in the fossil record, without any obvious connections to the animals that came before. Explore Evolution, p. 22 About 530 million years ago, more than half of the major animal groups (called phyla) appear suddenly in the fossil record.
 
rossum said:
Thank you AN for confirming that the earth is a lot older than 6,000 years.
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False.

Another one of your failed tricks.

That is a paleo source quote.

Buddhists are famous liars and disagree with God's TRUTH.


Exodus 20

King James Version

​

20 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
 
Authentic Nouveau said:
Most mutations are not beneficial. Many are detrimental and not fatal. Often are fatal.
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Well done. You are slowly grasping the essential elements of evolution. The majority of mutations, that are indeed not beneficial, are either neutral or malign. The neutral mutations, which are actually by far the biggest group, have no effect, positive or negative. The detrimental mutations, which also out number the beneficial ones, can be fatal or may just be damaging.

All you need to do now is grasp the effect on natural selection that these different forms of mutation have, and you will be close to a basic understanding of evolution!
 
Authentic Nouveau said:
Most mutations are not beneficial. Many are detrimental and not fatal. Often are fatal.
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I would say a so-called beneficial mutation is extremely rare. The problem is when one tries to advance a trait a second,third,fourth and so on so-called etremely rare beneficial mutation must occur in the progeny of an animal DNA that was changed by a previous mutation.

To date no evo on this forum has show that that can occur....especially to the point that we see all of the variety in the worlds animals. If this were true there would be transitional fossils all over the place. But, as you know the lack of transitional fossils is one of the down falls of evo-theory.
Sure, they may point to Archy...the bird dino...as the evos describe it...but there is no fossil record leading up to Archy nor after Archy.
 
CrowCross said:
I would say a so-called beneficial mutation is extremely rare.
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They are, initially. Then they spread and become more common as those with the mutation have more offspring that carry the mutation. A beneficial mutation will spread trough the population over the generations.
 
rossum said:
They are, initially. Then they spread and become more common as those with the mutation have more offspring that carry the mutation. A beneficial mutation will spread trough the population over the generations.
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Do you think you can prove that happens?
 
CrowCross said:
Do you think you can prove that happens?
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I have evidence that happens, and I have a spreadsheet that shows it happens.

A beneficial mutation with a 1% advantage will spread through the population.

Code: 
Generation  Deleterious   Neutral   Beneficial
----------  -----------   ------    ----------
     0         10.0       989.00          1.00
     1          9.9       989.00          1.01
    10          9.0       989.00          1.10
   100          3.7       989.00          2.70
   500          0.1       989.00        144.77
   700          0.0       989.00       1059.16
  1000          0.0       989.00      20959.16

The Deleterious column shows a mutation with a 1% disadvantage in reproduction. The Neutral column shows the unmutated original genome, with neither advantage nor disadvantage. That column also includes neutral mutations. The Beneficial column shows a mutation with a 1% advantage in reproduction.

The starting generation has 10 organisms with a disadvantageous mutation, 989 with zero or neutral mutations and 1 single organism with a beneficial mutation for a starting population of 1,000. The number of organisms with the beneficial mutation increases over the generations because that mutation results in 1% more offspring, on average, for those that carry it.
 
rossum said:
I have evidence that happens, and I have a spreadsheet that shows it happens.

A beneficial mutation with a 1% advantage will spread through the population.

Code: 
Generation  Deleterious   Neutral   Beneficial
----------  -----------   ------    ----------
     0         10.0       989.00          1.00
     1          9.9       989.00          1.01
    10          9.0       989.00          1.10
   100          3.7       989.00          2.70
   500          0.1       989.00        144.77
   700          0.0       989.00       1059.16
  1000          0.0       989.00      20959.16

The Deleterious column shows a mutation with a 1% disadvantage in reproduction. The Neutral column shows the unmutated original genome, with neither advantage nor disadvantage. That column also includes neutral mutations. The Beneficial column shows a mutation with a 1% advantage in reproduction.

The starting generation has 10 organisms with a disadvantageous mutation, 989 with zero or neutral mutations and 1 single organism with a beneficial mutation for a starting population of 1,000. The number of organisms with the beneficial mutation increases over the generations because that mutation results in 1% more offspring, on average, for those that carry it.
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That's all BS.

I could tweak the numbers and get whatever result I want.
The spread sheet doesn't mimic the real world. Kinda like your 1,000 heads.

The problem the evos incurred is realized dramatically when they realize they have to have mutations add to a trait over and over again, many, many times.

Now, I ask you again...Do you think you can prove that happens?
 
CrowCross said:
That's all BS.

I could tweak the numbers and get whatever result I want.
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Please show your numbers, then, and show how you get any result you want. I assume you mean that your numbers are based on actual calculations, rather than merely making up every single number.
 
CrowCross said:
That's all BS.

I could tweak the numbers and get whatever result I want.
The spread sheet doesn't mimic the real world. Kinda like your 1,000 heads.

The problem the evos incurred is realized dramatically when they realize they have to have mutations add to a trait over and over again, many, many times.

Now, I ask you again...Do you think you can prove that happens?
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I just proved it. The fact that you personally prefer a wooden interpretation of a late Bronze Age text to my proof does not render my proof invalid.
 
Gus Bovona said:
Please show your numbers, then, and show how you get any result you want. I assume you mean that your numbers are based on actual calculations, rather than merely making up every single number.
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Why 1% beneficial? Why not 10 or 0.000001?
 
rossum said:
I just proved it. The fact that you personally prefer a wooden interpretation of a late Bronze Age text to my proof does not render my proof invalid.
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Lets try one more time...Now, I ask you again...Do you think you can prove that happens? Lets see it in nature rather than some over simplified equation that doesn't represent the real world.
 
CrowCross said:
Why 1% beneficial? Why not 10 or 0.000001?
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Here's one study:
"When assuming FGM, we estimate that 14% of new nonsynonymous mutations in humans are beneficial. The majority (98%) of these beneficial mutations have small selection coefficients, with s < 0.0005 (Fig. 4C). In Drosophila, however, the model including positive selection had a similar fit to the data as the plain gamma DFE (SI Appendix, Table S4), and only 1.5% of new mutations are beneficial (Fig. 4D)."

They are also measuring how beneficial (selection coefficient) mutations are.

Source
 
CrowCross said:
Lets try one more time...Now, I ask you again...Do you think you can prove that happens? Lets see it in nature rather than some over simplified equation that doesn't represent the real world.
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I know I can prove that it happens. I have previously given you the example of the lactase persistence mutations, which are present in about one third of the human population. There are also the various high altitude/low oxygen adaptations found in the Himalayas, the Andes and in East Africa.

Science has the evidence. You have theology.
 
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