eternomade
Member
The divine counsel, also seen in Job.For instance who? And who is the Us according to you? In Him,
herman
The divine counsel, also seen in Job.For instance who? And who is the Us according to you? In Him,
herman
How so?So then you disagree with traditional Trinitarianism.
Traditional Trinity doctrine: One God, one Will, not three.How so?
My response was not to you, and was concerning the "US" in Genesis 1. I said the "US" is not God talking to Himself, but rather the Divine counsel or elohim.Traditional Trinity doctrine: One God, one Will, not three.
My will, by choosing to agree with my father's request, does not cease to make my will independent of my father. It simply means that I've chosen to make my own will agree with his request.
In like manner, Jesus did the same.
So tell me, have you been reading Michael Heiser on this divine council business? The following is a "critique" of Heiser. https://cerebralfaith.net/what-is-the-divine-council-and-is-it-biblical/ Personally, I'm not convinced with what he says. God is not accountable nor does He have to explain why He does things, especially to this divine council. Now, I'm very familiar with Heiser's work and he wrote a great article as to the identity of the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament.The divine counsel, also seen in Job.
I haven't. I am not convinced one way or the other, but the OT is very clear that God is 1. It doesn't make any sense for God to talk to Himself. It's possible yes, but I believe Trinitarians are reading that into the text.So tell me, have you been reading Michael Heiser on this divine council business? The following is a "critique" of Heiser. https://cerebralfaith.net/what-is-the-divine-council-and-is-it-biblical/ Personally, I'm not convinced with what he says. God is not accountable nor does He have to explain why He does things, especially to this divine council. Now, I'm very familiar with Heiser's work and he wrote a great article as to the identity of the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament.
In Him,
herman
From what I read in John 10, Jesus chooses to give his own life. No one takes it from him.Just to clarify your statement...
Are you saying the Son's will was NOT to die for your sins, that was only the will of the Father. But since Jesus would rather obey his Father than do his own will, he went ahead and died for your sins?
God has three wills because the one God of the Bible chose to reveal Himself as three distinct persons. For example, Mark 1:11, "and a voice came out of the heavens, "Thou art My beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased." So you have God the Father (who has one will) referencing His only begotten Son who also has one will. Then you have the Holy Spirit saying the following at Acts 13:2.So God has 3 wills or one?
Of course God is one, that's a given. When I say God is talking to Himself I'm referring to the other two persons of the Trinity as the "US." And no, I am convinced that the writers of the Old Testament had no idea of a Trinity of persons who share the same exact nature. They were looking forward to the Messiah (who btw is identified as God) in the OT and we look back to the fulfilled prophecies of the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ. And your first answer is correct, "the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ which can easily be proven.I haven't. I am not convinced one way or the other, but the OT is very clear that God is 1. It doesn't make any sense for God to talk to Himself. It's possible yes, but I believe Trinitarians are reading that into the text.
Regarding the Angel of the Lord, depending on the context it could be the pre incarnate Son, or the Word of the Lord, or just a messenger/angel.
Who is speaking in Isaiah 44:24?God has three wills because the one God of the Bible chose to reveal Himself as three distinct persons. For example, Mark 1:11, "and a voice came out of the heavens, "Thou art My beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased." So you have God the Father (who has one will) referencing His only begotten Son who also has one will. Then you have the Holy Spirit saying the following at Acts 13:2.
"And while they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit SAID, separate for Me (for the Holy Spirit) Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." The Holy Spirit has personality and His own will. If you ask me how the Holy Spirit gave this message I don't know and the text does not indicate how. The point is the fact that the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Father and the Son with His own will. Also read Acts 5:4 for more information about the identity of the Holy Spirit.
The BIG problem you have is you do not understand that the God of the Bible is one being/one God and yet (as I said) He chose to manifest Himself as three distinct persons. So, you give me any verse in the whole Bible and I will tell you who is speaking.
In Him,
herman
Your Absolutely SILLY analysis of the situation is totally laughable.For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.
John 6:38
In Trinitarianism, who specifically said this? God the Son of course. In Trinity land, God the Son according to his divine nature came down from heaven to planet earth and into the womb of a Jewish virgin. In the mind of Trinitarians, God the Son along with his divine nature came down from heaven. No man came down from heaven; only God the Son came down from heaven.
This is one of many, many verses which demonstrate their utter blindness. They have God the Son saying that He, God the Son, came down from heaven not to do his will but only to do the will of God the Father. God came down from heaven not to do God's will but to do God's will.
Trinity Land: To do God's will not God's will.
But the doctrine of the Trinity insists the one God only has one mind, one will. Yet they interpret John 6:38 to mean God the Son came down from heaven not to do his (God's) will but to do God's will.
So God sent God from heaven to earth not to do God's will but to do God's will.
It would be laughable if not so shamefully pitiful.
God! Do you see God the Father mentioned? Is God the Son or God the Holy Spirit named? Let me put it another way. Where not distinction is made, it is obviously unnecessary to make a distinction. The persons of the Trinity are persons in relation to each other, any one of the persons in relation to us is simply God. Since there is only one God, and if God says to us His glory He will not give to another, that is because there is only ONE God.Who is speaking in Isaiah 44:24?
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
who formed you from the womb:
“I am the Lord, who made all things,
who alone stretched out the heavens,
who spread out the earth by myself,
Of course God is one, that's a given. When I say God is talking to Himself I'm referring to the other two persons of the Trinity as the "US." And no, I am convinced that the writers of the Old Testament had no idea of a Trinity of persons who share the same exact nature. They were looking forward to the Messiah (who btw is identified as God) in the OT and we look back to the fulfilled prophecies of the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ. And your first answer is correct, "the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ which can easily be proven.
The persons of the Trinity are persons in relation to each other, any one of the persons in relation to us is simply God.