To pray to Jesus or not to pray to Jesus?

cjab

Well-known member
This is taught in Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13.
I don't find "YHWH" alluded to.

I didn't bring this passage up. You are trying to hide from the two that I have (see above) because they refute your heresy.
Your attempt failed.
As above. There is no allusion to "YHWH" in either of the above passages. What you are referring to is the Qere & Ketiv convention adopted by the Jews of referring to YHWH as Lord. The distinction between YHWH and Lord is clearly denoted in Ps 110:1, which you won't address. YHWH and Lord are clearly two different persons in Ps 110:1.

Stop runninhg away from Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13.

Thanks again for making this easy for me, heretic.
The inability to harmonize the cardinal singularity of God in heaven (Deut 6:4) with the revelation of the Son as plainly distinct from the Father disqualifies you from being any kind of serious theologian. As I said, you belong to the "joker" class of theologian.
 

Fred

Well-known member
I don't find "YHWH" alluded to.

Because you are spiritually blind.

And since to call upon the name of the Lord means to pray to the Lord Jesus proves the Lord Jesus is God because only God is the proper recipient of prayer.

In both Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 teach that (1) YHWH from the Old Testament is applied unto the Lord Jesus, and (2) this is done in reference to praying to Jesus.

Both points in both passages demonstrate the Lord Jesus is God.

That was easy.
 
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cjab

Well-known member
Because you are spiritually blind.

And since too call upon the name of the Lord means to pray to the Lord Jesus proves the Lord Jesus is God because only God is the proper recipient of prayer.

So in both Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 (1) YHWH from the Old Testament is applied unto the Lord Jesus and (2) this is done in reference to praying to Jesus.

Both points in both passages demonstrate your position is a joke.

That was easy.
It appears you deleted part of your previous post. Doubtless this is because you are theologically illiterate.

However the system picked up what you deleted, so I will reply to it.

Your attempts at theology are indeed lacking in insight although they have germs of truth. You say: "So in both Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 (1) YHWH from the Old Testament is applied unto the Lord Jesus and (2) this is done in reference to praying to Jesus."

As Jesus is (cardinal) one with YHWH as to Spirit, (Eph 4:4) so Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 are properly extended to the Son; but this doesn't means that "YHWH is Jesus." Rather as Jesus taught, he was "sent" by God (YHWH) and so is a man from God. Moreover the word "pray" (proseuchomai Strongs G4336) is not the same as the word "call upon" (epikaleō Strongs G1941). So stop pretending that they are the same word.

Your "easy theology" of course revolves around confounding words and concepts in a simplistic and naive way. You specialize on two verses in the entire bible. Of course "theology" is easy if you restrict yourself to just two verses. However it is plain for all to see that such ceases to be theology at all, but is a quasi-spiritual drama which you act out to make yourself feel superior to others.
 

Fred

Well-known member
It appears you deleted part of your previous post. Doubtless this is because you are theologically illiterate.

No, it's because I don't want to deal with all of your stupidity.

However the system picked up what you deleted, so I will reply to it.

Your attempts at theology are indeed lacking in insight although they have germs of truth. You say: "So in both Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 (1) YHWH from the Old Testament is applied unto the Lord Jesus and (2) this is done in reference to praying to Jesus."

As Jesus is (cardinal) one with YHWH as to Spirit, (Eph 4:4) so Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 are properly extended to the Son; but this doesn't means that "YHWH is Jesus."

Yes, it does because YHWH is used in reference to Jesus concerning prayer.

Rather as Jesus taught, he was "sent" by God (YHWH) and so is a man from God.

Which proves He isn't the Father. It doesn't prove Jesus is not God.

Moreover the word "pray" (proseuchomai Strongs G4336) is not the same as the word "call upon" (epikaleō Strongs G1941).

Duh. No kidding!

In Acts 1:24 Jesus is the proper recipient of proseuchomai.

So stop pretending that they are the same word.

Stop asserting that I do believe that. Both refer to prayer but they are not the same Greek word.

Your "easy theology" of course revolves around confounding words and concepts in a simplistic and naive way.

Now you wandered off without dealing with the fact that to call upon the name of the Lord means to pray to the Lord.

You specialize on two verses in the entire bible. Of course "theology" is easy if you restrict yourself to just two verses. However it is plain for all to see that such ceases to be theology at all, but is a quasi-spiritual drama which you act out to make yourself feel superior to others.

More of your idiotic ramblings.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
That's correct.



Not once.



Which He is (Romans 10:13; cf. Joel 2:32)



Which He is (John 20:31).


Thanks for making that easy for me.
That is claiming Jesus is his own father. We have one God the father. If Jesus is God and Jesus is the father, it follows that Jesus is his own father.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
That's your confusing claim. Don't try pinning your confusion on me.
You made the claim sir. I simply pointed it out...
See above.
You made the claim sir. I simply pointed it out...
Furthermore, the former blind man knew Jesus is the proper recipient of worship.
The blind man believed Jesus was the son of God...and he bowed to him...
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
There is nothing here showing that he believed Jesus was God.

You should too. Those who are blind refuse to worship Jesus.
We bow to Jesus as the son of God... to Glorify God his father... It is God who exalted Jesus
Phils 2
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
We do not bow to Jesus as God the father.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Which proves He isn't the Father. It doesn't prove Jesus is not God.
If he is not the father then he is not God since the father is God. Who is Jesus praying to here?
John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
If Jesus is praying to the father who is the only true God, what God is Jesus?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
The information in post 22 refutes your heresy.
Acts 2
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Where does it say Jesus is YHWH? Clearly, it says Jesus is a man approved by God.

Rom 10
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Clearly, vs 7 shows that Christ was dead...Clearly, vs 9 shows, that God raised Christ from the dead. The passage proves that Jesus is not God. Unless you believe that your God Jesus died and God his father raised him from the dead. In which case you have two Gods
 
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