To pray to Jesus or not to pray to Jesus?

Neo

Member
Before the world was.
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
The context of this passage is that He saved us and called us to a holy calling before the world began.

It is not saying The Word came into existence just before the world began.

I am documenting everything you say. The contradictions are piling up. Plus you take just about every passage out of context.

It's hard for you to see this because of the doctrine you belive in. This is why I have asked you these questions. I am trying to understand your perspective. I can see the contradictions in your doctrine. Can you?

Are you willing to be humble to examine your contradictory doctrine in greater detail?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
That is an assertion you have not proven in that they prayed to Jesus.
I proved that Jesus said don't ask him for anything. You are saying the disciples disobeyed him and asked him anyway.
John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
The context of this passage is that He saved us and called us to a holy calling before the world began.
which was given in Jesus Christ...
It is not saying The Word came into existence just before the world began.
I did not say "Just" before...
I am documenting everything you say. The contradictions are piling up. Plus you take just about every passage out of context.
Please do they will come back to haunt you... Just remember I did not say
The Word came into existence just before the world began.

It's hard for you to see this because of the doctrine you belive in. This is why I have asked you these questions.
I posted the scripture bro...
I am trying to understand your perspective. I can see the contradictions in your doctrine. Can you?
try to understand the scripture. There is no contradiction in the scripture. The contradiction is in your mind.
Are you willing to be humble to examine your contradictory doctrine in greater detail?
I posted the scripture sir... please show how the scripture is contradictory.
 

Neo

Member
which was given in Jesus Christ...

I did not say "Just" before...

Please do they will come back to haunt you... Just remember I did not say



I posted the scripture bro...

try to understand the scripture. There is no contradiction in the scripture. The contradiction is in your mind.

I posted the scripture sir... please show how the scripture is contradictory.
OK, state it plainly then.

When did the Word of God come into existence?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
OK, state it plainly then.

When did the Word of God come into existence?
I already did. I believe what Paul said.
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 

Neo

Member
D
I already did. I believe what Paul said.
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Bro, you really don't understand the context of this passage, do you?

As I already said, this passage says He saved us and called us to a holy calling in Christ Jesus before the world began.

Why do you think this passage says the Word came into existence?
 

Fred

Well-known member
I proved that Jesus said don't ask him for anything. You are saying the disciples disobeyed him and asked him anyway.
John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

The context has to do with the apostles not asking the Lord Jesus anymore questions concerning His figurative teachings concerning His resurrection (John 16:18, 30). Their understanding will increase when the Holy Spirit would later be given to them. At that time such questions will no longer be asked.

Paul properly asked the Lord Jesus a question (Acts 22:10), and Jesus answered Him. He didn't say to Paul not to ask Him anything.

Your belief is not in accord with what the Bible teaches.
You are confused.
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
D

Bro, you really don't understand the context of this passage, do you?

As I already said, this passage says He saved us and called us to a holy calling in Christ Jesus before the world began.
So Jesus was there before the world began
Why do you think this passage says the Word came into existence?
I never said this passage says the word came into existence. All I am showing you is that the Word came before the world. Words don't exist willy nilly they are spoken by someone. They come from somewhere...
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
The context has to do with the apostles not asking the Lord Jesus anymore questions concerning His figurative teachings concerning His resurrection (John 16:18,
30). Their understanding will increase when the Holy Spirit would later be given to them. At that time such questions will no longer be asked.
The scriptures do not say that, does it?..
22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:


Paul properly asked the Lord Jesus a question (Acts 22:10), and Jesus answered Him. He didn't say to Paul not to ask Him anything.
Paul was not a believer/disciple at that point.
You should know this. You cannot equate Jesus speaking to his disciples with Jesus speaking to Paul who was consenting to their death
Your belief is not in accord with what the Bible teaches.
You are confused.
How so? You are the one making the error. You believe that Paul was a disciple of Jesus when he was on the way to kill the believers of Jesus.
 

Fred

Well-known member
The scriptures do not say that, does it?..

John 16:18, 30 are Scripture.

Paul was not a believer/disciple at that point.

He was when he asked Jesus in 2 Corinthians 12:8.
The other apostles were in Acts 1:24-25.

And don't forget John 14:14.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
John 16:18, 30 are Scripture.
But they don't way what you are saying.
He was when he asked Jesus in 2 Corinthians 12:8.
You are assuming that by Lord he is saying, Jesus. Paul knows we pray to God...
Romans 15:30
Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
Colossians 1:3
We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The other apostles were in Acts 1:24-25.
They all know to pray to God. They were commanded to.
And don't forget John 14:14.
That does not help your argument...
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
 
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