To Those Who Say Jesus Was God.

Newbirth

Member
And I posted the scripture that say Jesus Christ is the ONLY Begotten Son of God!
I explained that Jesus is the only begotten in the flesh, we are begotten in the spirit. Both begotten remember Jesus died in the flesh Now we are all begotten in the spirit...
Your posted scripture is talking about begotten ( adopted ) and NOT ONLY Begotten! So are you trying to tell me that you ( like Gary ) are an ONLY Begotten Son of God, like Jesus Christ is?!!!! There is a BIG difference between Only Begotten ( Not adopted ) Son and begotten ( Adopted or born again ) sons!
Nope never said only begotten, you are the one who is ranting about "only" begotten. We are saying that we are begotten you are saying that we are not ...the scripture says that we are begotten.
 

Theo1689

Active member
I didn't come up with anything sir. I posted the scripture.....
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
I read it just as it is written sir.

So do Calvinists.
And that's why our theology is consistent with every verse of Scripture, including 1 Cor. 8:6.


where did I assume an interpretation of that verse sir? can you point to the post sir?

Well, if your position is that verse contradicts Evangelical Trinitarian theology, then you are clearly interpreting it, and interpreting it wrongly.



that is common sense sir, since it is written "one God the father" in the verse. If the father is God and the son is God that is two Gods sir.

Not if they are the same God (which they are).
You are wrong.
Just admit it and move on.

then you agree ...to us there is but one God, the Father, as written in the scripture?

Yes.
Trinitarians have ALWAYS affirmed that the Father is the one God.
You are the one who said that I am wrong sir, I posted the scripture Just as I got it. The scripture says "one God the Father" you are saying two Gods,

I have NEVER said "two gods".
I have repeatedly DENIED "two gods".
The Father and the Son are the same ONE God.

Please lose the straw-man.

You have the Father as God and the Son as God.

Yes, and I have NEVER said that they are "two gods".
They are the SAME one God.

Then you agree to the one God is the Father?

Of course.

Then you agree that they are not the same God?

Of course I don't "agree" to that.
Only one God exists.
You are denying Scripture.

In which case you have two Gods.

Nope.
I only have ONE God.
Because only ONE God exists.

Sorry, it cannot be different ways God is not the author of confusion...God sent Jesus to be the saviour of the world...You seem to be denying this.

Not at all.
Please lose the straw-man.

Are you denying that God sent Jesus to be the saviour of the world?

Of course not.
Lose the straw-man.

then you have two Gods... Since the Father is God

Nope.
I only have ONE God.

Lose the straw-man.

Did Granville Sharpe write the scripture? So you are a follower of Sharpe rather than the context of the scripture?

<Chuckle>

Nice false dichotomy you have there.

So you're going to claim you accept Scripture, yet you deny the understanding of Greek grammar that allows us to TRANSLATED the Scripture into English.

Yours is a losing position.

So how does that line up with vs 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

It lines up perfectly (thanks for asking.. :) ).

It must mean that God died. Do you believe that God died?

You continue to conflate the Son with the Father.
Please lose the straw-man.
please show that quote in the scripture sir... You know that does not make any sense...and not written anywhere in the scripture. If it was written in the scripture we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I have shown you MULTIPLE Scriptures which explicitly teach that Jesus is God.
You reject them.
That's not my problem.
That is going to be YOUR problem, when you have to face your Creator on the great day of Judgment.

So where is it written that Jesus is God incarnate?

Asked and answered.

Isa. 9:6, John 1:1,14, John 20:28, Rom. 9:5, Tit. 2:13, Heb. 1:8, 2 Pet. 1:1, etc. etc. etc. etc.)

And you've already gone, "nuh-HUH".
And I simply go "nuh-HUH" to your own "nuh-HUH".
But you can't show how I am wrong.

I already have.
You simply refuse to accept correction.
And quite frankly, that's not my problem.

Which God don't I believe? Jesus or the God greater than Jesus?

There is only ONE god.
 

Newbirth

Member
So you have two Gods If God is calling Jesus God that would be two Gods. Do you agree?----------------------- Rod's response - No, they are ONE GOD in THREE ( Not Two )
where does the scripture say one god in three?
Divine Persons ( FSHS - Matt.28:19 )!
show me where the apostles did that sir. There is no record of anyone doing that.
They can be called God individually just as your Three parts ( Body, Soul, & Spirit - 1 Thess 5:23 )
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Nothing in that verse reflects your nonsense sir

can be called human individually ( human Body, Human Soul, & human Spirit ) without really being THREE Humans, But just One Human! Now do you get It? Even John 1:1 says God with God and God the Father calls Jesus God in Heb.1:8! The Holy Spirit being lied to in Acts 5:3 is called God in verse 4 ( Acts 5:4 )! The One GOD says " Us & OUR " in Gen.1:26! So are you calling the ONE GOD ( FSHS - Matt.28:18 ) a Liar in all those posted scriptures ( as written )?????
You are raping the scripture sir Nothing that you posted supports your claim.It's just pure madness.
 

Newbirth

Member
So do Calvinists.
And that's why our theology is consistent with every verse of Scripture, including 1 Cor. 8:6.
Your theology is consistent with confusion sir, You claim one God but have three
Well, if your position is that verse contradicts Evangelical Trinitarian theology, then you are clearly interpreting it, and interpreting it wrongly.
It's not my position sir it is the scripture...
Not if they are the same God (which they are).
You are wrong.
Just admit it and move on.
same what sir ? You are saying that the father and the son is the same one God. Jesus said his father God is greater than him.
Yes.
Trinitarians have ALWAYS affirmed that the Father is the one God.
that would make Jesus his son therefore not the same God else he would be his own father
I have NEVER said "two gods".
I have repeatedly DENIED "two gods".
The Father and the Son are the same ONE God.
then Jesus is his own father
Please lose the straw-man.
you would have to disappear
Yes, and I have NEVER said that they are "two gods".
They are the SAME one God.
then Jesus is his own father
Of course.
Then no one else can be the one God
Of course I don't "agree" to that.
Only one God exists.
You are denying Scripture.
You just agreed that the father is the one God therefore no one else can be the one, God. It appears that you don't know how much is one
Nope.
I only have ONE God.
Because only ONE God exists.
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Not at all.
Please lose the straw-man.

Of course not.
Lose the straw-man.
God is not the author of confusion...God sent Jesus to be the saviour of the world...You seem to be denying this.
What part is the strawman?
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
take this for comfort
John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
See the only true God sent Jesus, therefore Jesus is not God.
Nope.
I only have ONE God.

Lose the straw-man.



<Chuckle>

Nice false dichotomy you have there.

So you're going to claim you accept Scripture, yet you deny the understanding of Greek grammar that allows us to TRANSLATED the Scripture into English.

Yours is a losing position.



It lines up perfectly (thanks for asking.. :) ).



You continue to conflate the Son with the Father.
Please lose the straw-man.


I have shown you MULTIPLE Scriptures which explicitly teach that Jesus is God.
You reject them.
That's not my problem.
That is going to be YOUR problem, when you have to face your Creator on the great day of Judgment.



Asked and answered.

Isa. 9:6, John 1:1,14, John 20:28, Rom. 9:5, Tit. 2:13, Heb. 1:8, 2 Pet. 1:1, etc. etc. etc. etc.)

And you've already gone, "nuh-HUH".
And I simply go "nuh-HUH" to your own "nuh-HUH".


I already have.
You simply refuse to accept correction.
And quite frankly, that's not my problem.



There is only ONE god.
no sense going in circles with you ..
John 17
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
 

Theo1689

Active member
Your theology is consistent with confusion sir, You claim one God but have three

I disagree.

It's not my position sir it is the scripture...
I'm sorry you can't tell the difference.

same what sir ? You are saying that the father and the son is the same one God. Jesus said his father God is greater than him.

Both statements are true.
I'm sorry if you can't understand them, but that's not my problem.

that would make Jesus his son therefore not the same God else he would be his own father

Nope.
That's ridiculous, and is NOWHERE what we believe.
That's called a STRAW-MAN.

then Jesus is his own father

False.

you would have to disappear

then Jesus is his own father

False.

Then no one else can be the one God

Wrong.
You are assuming unitarianism.
Multiple "persons" can be the same one God.
So says SCRIPTURE.

You just agreed that the father is the one God therefore no one else can be the one, God. It appears that you don't know how much is one

You apparently don't understand what I "know".

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Amen!

Do you not realize (Deut. 6:4) that the one True God is both God (the Father) and Lord (the Son)?

God is not the author of confusion...God sent Jesus to be the saviour of the world...You seem to be denying this.

I agree!



What part is the strawman?

The part where you falsely accuse me of believing in multiple gods.
The part where you falsely accuse me of believing the Son is His own father.
The part where you falsely accuse me of believing the Father is His own son.
And so many others.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
take this for comfort
John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Amen!

See the only true God sent Jesus, therefore Jesus is not God.

Wrong again.
The Father sent Jesus, therefore Jesus is not the FATHER.
THAT is the true logical argument.

Nobody (except you) is arguing that the Father is the Son.
They are not the same "person".
But they are the same one true GOD.

Apparently you don't understand that, and because of your lack of understanding, you falsely accuse me of being wrong.

no sense going in circles with you ..

I would love if you would stop, because you are not accomplishing anything productive.

John 17
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Amen and Amen!

We LOVE Scripture! :)
 

Newbirth

Member
I disagree.
God the father god the son and god the holy spirit three Gods each not the other each individually God. three Gods
I'm sorry you can't tell the difference.
what difference? it's only the scripture I posted
Both statements are true.
I'm sorry if you can't understand them, but that's not my problem.
Both cannot be true sir. It would mean more than one God. A greater God and a lesser God. Please explain who is the greater God and who is the lesser God in the one God. Jesus is clear (1) the Father is greater than him (2) He ascended to his God who is also his Father. If Jesus is God but not his father then that is two Gods.
Nope.
That's ridiculous, and is NOWHERE what we believe.
That's called a STRAW-MAN.
of course, it is, you are saying that The father and Jesus are the same one, God. Therefore Jesus and the Father are the same one entity God who is Jesus' father and Jesus at the same time.
False.



False.
I just showed you here it is again...you are saying that The father and Jesus are the same one, God. Therefore Jesus and the Father are the same one entity God who is Jesus' father and Jesus at the same time. Therefore Jesus is his own father. Is God Jesus Father? YES well if Jesus is God it would follow that Jesus is Jesus' father.
Wrong.
You are assuming unitarianism.
Multiple "persons" can be the same one God.
So says SCRIPTURE.
Where is that written in the scripture? Ps 86
9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.

10 For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

11 Teach me thy way, O Lord; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
You apparently don't understand what I "know".
I understand you think that one is three...
Amen!

Do you not realize (Deut. 6:4) that the one True God is both God (the Father) and Lord (the Son)?
It doesn't say that sir..
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Really Guy You are saying it would read Hear, O Israel: The Lord(the Son) our God( Father) is one Lord (son):
And vs 5 would mean...And thou shalt love the Lord (the son) thy God( Father) with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
so why are you posting confusion and claiming it is of God
The part where you falsely accuse me of believing in multiple gods.
The part where you falsely accuse me of believing the Son is His own father.
The part where you falsely accuse me of believing the Father is His own son.
And so many others.
God the Father God the Son and God the holy spirit ,each not the other therefore three Gods..
You claim they are the same one God, I explained it to you. When they are one God Jesus is his own father..and the father is his own son.
Wrong again.
The Father sent Jesus, therefore Jesus is not the FATHER.
THAT is the true logical argument.
The scripture says God sent so let's put your answer in perspective. lets change the word "father" to "God" in your answer ...here is what it says...God sent Jesus, therefore Jesus is not God
You just refuted your whole argument
John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Nobody (except you) is arguing that the Father is the Son.
They are not the same "person".
But they are the same one true GOD.
You just refuted that argument above sir
Apparently you don't understand that, and because of your lack of understanding, you falsely accuse me of being wrong.
You just refuted your own argument above sir
I would love if you would stop, because you are not accomplishing anything productive.
well you just refuted your own argument that is production
Amen and Amen!

We LOVE Scripture! :)
Yep we do ...God sent Jesus, therefore Jesus is not God.
John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 4:9
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
You do know that God sent a man, don't you?
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
 

Theo1689

Active member
God the father god the son and god the holy spirit three Gods each not the other each individually God. three Gods

I'm sorry you believe they are three Gods.
Christians believe they are ONE God.

Both cannot be true sir. It would mean more than one God.

Sorry, no it wouldn't.

A greater God and a lesser God.

Nope. Simply ONE true God.

Please explain who is the greater God and who is the lesser God in the one God.

You're asking me to "explain" something I neither believe, teach, or accept?
Sorry, nope.
I'm not playing your stupid game.

Jesus is clear (1) the Father is greater than him (2) He ascended to his God who is also his Father. If Jesus is God but not his father then that is two Gods.

I'm sorry you believe they are "two Gods".
I believe they are ONE God.

of course, it is, you are saying that The father and Jesus are the same one, God.

That is what the BIBLE teaches, yes.

Therefore Jesus and the Father are the same one entity God who is Jesus' father and Jesus at the same time.

Nope. You are conflating the Father and the Son.

I just showed you here it is again...you are saying that The father and Jesus are the same one, God.

That's what the BIBLE teaches, yes.

Therefore Jesus and the Father are the same one entity God who is Jesus' father and Jesus at the same time.

Nope.
You are once again conflating the Father and the Son.

Therefore Jesus is his own father.

I'm sorry you believe that.
True Christians, such as myself, do NOT believe that.

That's why it's called a STRAW-MAN when you constantly try to project that belief onto us, when we don't believe it.

Is God Jesus Father? YES well if Jesus is God it would follow that Jesus is Jesus' father.

I'm sorry you believe such a heretical notion.
I assure you that Jesus is NOT his own father.
10 For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

Congratulations!
You just figured out why the Father and the Son are NOT "two gods", but ONE God.

I understand you think that one is three...

I don't believe anything of the sort, of course.
How many "persons" in the godhead? Three.
How many "gods" in the Godhead? One.

When you count DIFFERENT entities, you often end up with different counts.

If I count "5" fingers and I count "1" hand, that does NOT mean that I think "one is five".
That's nonsense.

so why are you posting confusion and claiming it is of God

Sorry, but YOU are the one posting "confusion".

YOU are the one posting "one is three".
YOU are the one posting, "Jesus is Jesus' father".

God the Father God the Son and God the holy spirit ,each not the other therefore three Gods..

I'm sorry you believe in polytheism.
True Christians such as myself believe in only ONE god.

You claim they are the same one God, I explained it to you.

You "explained" it to me?
I hate to break it to you, but you have no "authority" here.
You teach one thing.
The Bible teaches the opposite.
I believe the Bible.
I'm sorry if you don't like that.

When they are one God Jesus is his own father..and the father is his own son.

I'm sorry you believe such nonsense.
I believe the FATHER is the Father of Jesus.

The scripture says God sent so let's put your answer in perspective. lets change the word "father" to "God" in your answer

No, because replacing "Father" with "God" is conflating the Father with the Son.
It's a very disingenuous tactic on your part, but I'm not falling for it.


You just refuted that argument above sir

You just refuted your own argument above sir

well you just refuted your own argument that is production

Well, I find it amusing that you think so.
But you are simply wrong.
 

Theo1689

Active member
Did Granville Sharpe write the scripture? So you are a follower of Sharpe rather than the context of the scripture?

Here is Titus 2:13:

[...] the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (ESV)
[...] the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. (NET)
[...] appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, (NASB)
[...] appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. (HCSB)
[...] glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (NKJV)
[...] appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ; (WEB)
[...] when the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ will appear. (TEV)
[...] the splendour of our great God and Saviour Christ Jesus will appear. (REB)
[...] the revelation of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; (BBE)
[...] when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed. (NLT)
[...] the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. (NRSV)
[...] the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, (NIV)

All these translations refer to Jesus as "our great GOD and Saviour".

Here is the "translators' note" from the NET:

The terms “God and Savior” both refer to the same person, Jesus Christ. This is one of the clearest statements in the NT concerning the deity of Christ. The construction in Greek is known as the Granville Sharp rule, named after the English philanthropist–linguist who first clearly articulated the rule in 1798. Sharp pointed out that in the construction article-noun-καί-noun (where καί [kai] = “and”), when two nouns are singular, personal, and common (i.e., not proper names), they always had the same referent. Illustrations such as “the friend and brother,” “the God and Father,” etc. abound in the NT to prove Sharp’s point. The only issue is whether terms such as “God” and “Savior” could be considered common nouns as opposed to proper names. Sharp and others who followed (such as T. F. Middleton in his masterful The Doctrine of the Greek Article) demonstrated that a proper name in Greek was one that could not be pluralized. Since both “God” (θεός, theos) and “savior” (σωτήρ, sōtēr) were occasionally found in the plural, they did not constitute proper names, and hence, do fit Sharp’s rule. Although there have been 200 years of attempts to dislodge Sharp’s rule, all attempts have been futile. Sharp’s rule stands vindicated after all the dust has settled. For more information on Sharp’s rule see ExSyn 270-78, esp. 276. See also 2 Pet 1:1 and Jude 4.

And the grammar behind it is completely justified.
It is the exact same rule that tells us that "our Lord and Saviour" (2 Pet. 1:11) refers singularly to Jesus Christ.

It is the exact same rule that tells us that "the God and Father" (Rom. 15:6) refers singularly to the Father.

This structure appears OVER AND OVER in Scripture, and it ALWAYS refers to the two nouns referring to the same entity. But you want to tell us that it means that in ALL passages, EXCEPT those passages refer to Jesus as God?

That's a very biased evaluation.
And it's the same fallacious objection the JW's use.
 
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Newbirth

Member
I'm sorry you believe they are three Gods.
Christians believe they are ONE God.
You are the one who says God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Sorry, no it wouldn't.
So you call each individual God but they are not each God individually?
Nope. Simply ONE true God.
The only true God sent Jesus therefore Jesus is not God. Read it carefully.
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 6:38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
We already established that God sent Jesus if Jesus is god then Jesus sent himself. In which case Jesus would be lying?
You're asking me to "explain" something I neither believe, teach, or accept?
Sorry, nope.
I'm not playing your stupid game.
You don't believe that the Father is Greater than Jesus? Well, Jesus said so himself.
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
You must explain why you don't believe this verse. To you the father is God and Jesus is the same God. But Jesus said the father is greater than him. Was Jesus lying?
I'm sorry you believe they are "two Gods".
I believe they are ONE God.
I don't believe they are two Gods I believe only the Father is God.
Since you believe the two are one God you must explain what Jesus meant by
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
That is what the BIBLE teaches, yes.
Well, show me where it is written: "The father and Jesus are the same one, God".
Nope. You are conflating the Father and the Son.
Nope you conflated them when you said they are both the one God
That's what the BIBLE teaches, yes.
Where does the bible say "The father and Jesus are the same one, God." If the bible teaches that it must be written somewhere...please show the quote.
Nope.
You are once again conflating the Father and the Son.
I didn't say they are both the one God you did...
I'm sorry you believe that.
True Christians, such as myself, do NOT believe that.
I don't believe that but that is what your teaching shows...both are the same God. Therefore God is the father of God thus making God his own father.
That's why it's called a STRAW-MAN when you constantly try to project that belief onto us, when we don't believe it.
It's not my belief it is your belief that both are the same God. If both are the same God then God is the father of the same God. When it comes to God, God the father is the same God as God the son. While being the Father of the same God God the Son.
Is God the Father the father of God the Son while both are the same God? Yes or No
I'm sorry you believe such a heretical notion.
I assure you that Jesus is NOT his own father.
Is God the Father the father of God the Son while both are the same God? Yes or No
Congratulations!
You just figured out why the Father and the Son are NOT "two gods", but ONE God.
Then If both are the same one God then God is the father of the same God Jesus. God the father is the same God as God the son. While being the Father of the same God God the Son.
I don't believe anything of the sort, of course.
How many "persons" in the godhead? Three.
How many "gods" in the Godhead? One.
Each person is God and each not the other, correct? Then also three Gods. You seem to be saying that persons are not Gods if that is the case then God the Father is not God, God the Son is not God, and God the Holy Spirit is not God either. You have to be consistent.
Just to be clear who is the one God in the Godhead?
When you count DIFFERENT entities, you often end up with different counts.
Yep
If I count "5" fingers and I count "1" hand, that does NOT mean that I think "one is five".
That's nonsense.
that is because fingers are not hands. If Jesus is God that is one God person who is God and not the other person. If the Father is God that is two God persons that are God and not the other, if the Holy Spirit is God that is three God persons who are God and not the other. Obviously, each person is individually God. You are trying to make a "person" argument which is silly. You cannot provide a time when each individual person is not a God individually.
Sorry, but YOU are the one posting "confusion".

YOU are the one posting "one is three".
YOU are the one posting, "Jesus is Jesus' father".
Those are what I get from your arguments, sir...You are the one saying three persons make one God just as five fingers make one hand. In which case, no finger can ever be a hand. Therefore no person can be a God...
You are the one who says that Jesus and the father is the same one, God.
I'm sorry you believe in polytheism.
True Christians such as myself believe in only ONE god.
What is the name of your one God sir. I saked you where
You "explained" it to me?
I hate to break it to you, but you have no "authority" here.
You teach one thing.
The Bible teaches the opposite.
I believe the Bible.
I'm sorry if you don't like that.
I post exactly what the bible says sir, you are the one who is making up stories...where does the bible you believe say "they are the same one God"
I'm sorry you believe such nonsense.
I believe the FATHER is the Father of Jesus.
You also believe the father and Jesus are the same one, God. Therefore God(the father) is the Father of the same God himself (Jesus)
No, because replacing "Father" with "God" is conflating the Father with the Son.
It's a very disingenuous tactic on your part, but I'm not falling for it.
You made the distinctions sir The Father is God
You already conflated them when you said they are the same one, God
Well, I find it amusing that you think so.
But you are simply wrong.
don't just say it. show me with scripture how I am wrong
 

Newbirth

Member
Here is Titus 2:13:

[...] the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (ESV)
[...] the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. (NET)
[...] appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, (NASB)
[...] appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. (HCSB)
[...] glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (NKJV)
[...] appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ; (WEB)
[...] when the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ will appear. (TEV)
[...] the splendour of our great God and Saviour Christ Jesus will appear. (REB)
[...] the revelation of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; (BBE)
[...] when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed. (NLT)
[...] the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. (NRSV)
[...] the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, (NIV)

All these translations refer to Jesus as "our great GOD and Saviour".

Here is the "translators' note" from the NET:
Since you believe that it is saying Jesus is our Great God and savior...Please tell us why Jesus said his Father is greater than him. Obviously, Jesus is saying that God the Father is greater than him, which means that they are not both the same God. Plus I want to know who Jesus ascended to, He said he was ascending to his God...Clearly, He and his father are not the same God....Bet you will dodge those questions, sir. Or not give straight answers from the scripture.
And the grammar behind it is completely justified.
It is the exact same rule that tells us that "our Lord and Saviour" (2 Pet. 1:11) refers singularly to Jesus Christ.
God sent his Son to be the saviour of the world...God made Jesus both Lord and Christ ...that is how Jesus is Lord and saviour...God made him those things. Not Granville Sharpe.
It is the exact same rule that tells us that "the God and Father" (Rom. 15:6) refers singularly to the Father.
Jesus tells us that God is our God and our Father, not Granville Sharpe. But If God is God and Father, wouldn't Jesus be another God since they are not each other and Jesus is not our father...You have Jesus appearing as our great God and savior he is not our father. and God is our God and Father. two distinct persons each, not the other but each God. Your story does not add up sir.
This structure appears OVER AND OVER in Scripture, and it ALWAYS refers to the two nouns referring to the same entity. But you want to tell us that it means that in ALL passages, EXCEPT those passages refer to Jesus as God?

That's a very biased evaluation.
And it's the same fallacious objection the JW's use.
You believe Jesus is God ..... But God is our father is Jesus your father? Remember you said they are both the same God. Is God our Father and brother at the same time sir?
Heb 2
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

It says Jesus is our brethren, not our father or our God sir.
 

Newbirth

Member
since it says 'thee' I will guess it is the sorcery translation KJV.
So you believe sorcery is greater than God...You believe that God is somehow powerless when it comes to the written word he put in place for those who believe in him. And you are greater than God that you gave the power to make things right?
 

rod.ney

Member
You are the one who says God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

So you call each individual God but they are not each God individually?

The only true God sent Jesus therefore Jesus is not God. Read it carefully.
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 6:38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
We already established that God sent Jesus if Jesus is god then Jesus sent himself. In which case Jesus would be lying?

You don't believe that the Father is Greater than Jesus? Well, Jesus said so himself.
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
You must explain why you don't believe this verse. To you the father is God and Jesus is the same God. But Jesus said the father is greater than him. Was Jesus lying?

I don't believe they are two Gods I believe only the Father is God.
Since you believe the two are one God you must explain what Jesus meant by
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Well, show me where it is written: "The father and Jesus are the same one, God".

Nope you conflated them when you said they are both the one God

Where does the bible say "The father and Jesus are the same one, God." If the bible teaches that it must be written somewhere...please show the quote.

I didn't say they are both the one God you did...

I don't believe that but that is what your teaching shows...both are the same God. Therefore God is the father of God thus making God his own father.

It's not my belief it is your belief that both are the same God. If both are the same God then God is the father of the same God. When it comes to God, God the father is the same God as God the son. While being the Father of the same God God the Son.
Is God the Father the father of God the Son while both are the same God? Yes or No

Is God the Father the father of God the Son while both are the same God? Yes or No

Then If both are the same one God then God is the father of the same God Jesus. God the father is the same God as God the son. While being the Father of the same God God the Son.

Each person is God and each not the other, correct? Then also three Gods. You seem to be saying that persons are not Gods if that is the case then God the Father is not God, God the Son is not God, and God the Holy Spirit is not God either. You have to be consistent.
Just to be clear who is the one God in the Godhead?

Yep

that is because fingers are not hands. If Jesus is God that is one God person who is God and not the other person. If the Father is God that is two God persons that are God and not the other, if the Holy Spirit is God that is three God persons who are God and not the other. Obviously, each person is individually God. You are trying to make a "person" argument which is silly. You cannot provide a time when each individual person is not a God individually.

Those are what I get from your arguments, sir...You are the one saying three persons make one God just as five fingers make one hand. In which case, no finger can ever be a hand. Therefore no person can be a God...
You are the one who says that Jesus and the father is the same one, God.

What is the name of your one God sir. I saked you where

I post exactly what the bible says sir, you are the one who is making up stories...where does the bible you believe say "they are the same one God"

You also believe the father and Jesus are the same one, God. Therefore God(the father) is the Father of the same God himself (Jesus)

You made the distinctions sir The Father is God
You already conflated them when you said they are the same one, God

don't just say it. show me with scripture how I am wrong
I'll show you! The king of a nation is greater or higher in power than any of his people! They are still ( the king & his people ) all human! So just because Jesus says His Father is greater than Him, it does not mean that they both are NOT Deity ( God )! So yes God the Son can say that and also pray to God His Father! That's EXACTLY why GOD in Gen.1:26 said this " US & OUR " about His Triune ( FSHS - see Matt.28:19 ) self! The Son being God the Word in John 1:1, with God is EXACTLY why All things got Created THROUGH Him as per John 1:3 and Col.1:16! That's also why His Father calls Him " Oh God " in Hebrews 1:8! Angels ONLY worship God and they all worshiped Jesus in Heb.1:6, just before His Father called Him God in verse 8! Those are ALL scriptures ( God's say so, Not my say so ) as is in this scriptural response to your nonsense Case closed!
 

e v e

Member
So you believe sorcery is greater than God...You believe that God is somehow powerless when it comes to the written word he put in place for those who believe in him. And you are greater than God that you gave the power to make things right?
God let’s us act and as we know some do not use free choice well...

about me ... what are you asking?
 

Newbirth

Member
I'll show you! The king of a nation is greater or higher in power than any of his people!
one king...the prince is not the king
They are still ( the king & his people ) all human!
one king the wife is not the king the son is not the king
So just because Jesus says His Father is greater than Him, it does not mean that they both are NOT Deity ( God )!
If by deity you mean God then you have two Gods.
So yes God the Son can say that and also pray to God His Father!
therefore the father is the only true God according to John 17
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
That's EXACTLY why GOD in Gen.1:26 said this " US & OUR " about His Triune ( FSHS - see Matt.28:19 ) self!
When you say us does that mean you ate two persons or another person is also you?
The Son being God the Word in John 1:1, with God is EXACTLY why All things got Created THROUGH Him as per John 1:3 and Col.1:16! That's also why His Father calls Him " Oh God " in Hebrews 1:8! Angels ONLY worship God and they all worshiped Jesus in Heb.1:6, just before His Father called Him God in verse 8! Those are ALL scriptures ( God's say so, Not my say so ) as is in this scriptural response to your nonsense Case closed!
God doesn't say the nonsense that you are saying...God says Jesus is his son, not another God or that they are the same one, God.
 

Bonnie

Active member
Every scripture that you quoted is of God the Father of all, the Father of Jesus. Jesus just as all who are His sons never speak of self but only of our Father who is God and Jesus was no exception, all who are born of Him knows who these are talking about. Only religious folk who make theior gods flesh worship flesh as a god.

You should seek ye first the kingdom of God instead of making up your own. Read Matt 3:16 which you will not believe, but God had to come to Jesus by His Spirit and open all of His kingdom to him and this is exactly what you are missing in yourself. Jesus didnt even know God or His Spirit until God came and opened it to that man just as He does in us all who will receive Him.

You dont believe Matt 3:16 happened in Jesus do you, that is very obvious. He is the same one who was in Adam, and he became like Him just as Jesus did, same one who came to Abraham, Moses, 120, the I AM who always has been. Jesus didn't come along for a few thousand years later when these received from God that what Jesus received form Him. It would do you well to seek that same One who did come to jesus and made him who he was in the Great I Am. You will never know the Father as Jesus did until you do.
Nonsense. Since when did the Father become flesh? And dwelt among us?

The idea that Jesus "didn't even know God or His Spirit until God came and opened it to that man" is absolute, unmitigated nonsense! The "Word was God" and "the Word was WITH God" from the beginning! How could He be WITH God and NOT know GOD, HIS OWN FATHER? or HIS SPIRIT??? The "with" here in Greek means "across from, face to face, in the closest of intimacy." I checked with a Greek scholar I know, who teaches Koine Greek at a college.

Most of what you wrote here is esoteric jibberish, robbing us of the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

Bonnie

Active member
No Jesus was saying he was Gods son and obeyed and prayed to his God. I only believe him to be Gods son and by identification with him as a son of God myself he was spot on. No where did Jesus claim to be God and not Gods son, only man made doctrines make that false accusation of him. Even those who had Jesus crucified made the false claim that he made himself God, he was innocent of those charges and falsely accused just as he is today by those not knowing who the God is who sent that man to testify of Him.
Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM." That is God's sacred name for Himself from the burning bush and indicates absolute existence. God in the OT says He is "the first and the last." Jesus also claims that title in Revelation.

When Jesus was a man on this earth, He had humbled Himself to the point of being the servant of all, Who came to die for all. In His humanity, He prayed to His Father. God the Father was God of Jesus' humanity, but not of His divinity.

I do not know how the Being God can be composed of three separate and eternal consciousnesses/identies. But then, God is infinite and we are finite and the infinite can do what the finite cannot. God is not held captive by our limited ability to comprehend His nature fully, this side of heaven. And you know what--I am okay with that. Because "with man it is indeed impossible, but NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE LORD."
 
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civic

Active member
Every scripture that you quoted is of God the Father of all, the Father of Jesus.
Scripture is on my side and refutes your false christ gary. Jesus is YHWH, the Lord of Glory !

Psalm 24:8-10
Who is the King of glory
?
The Lord strong and mighty,
The Lord mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O gates,
And lift them up, O ancient doors,
That the King of glory may come in!
10 Who is this King of glory?
The Lord of hosts,
He is the King of glory.

Psalm 29:1-2

Ascribe to the Lord, you heavenly beings,
ascribe to the Lord glory and strength.
2 Ascribe to the Lord the glory due his name;
worship the Lord in the splendor of his holiness.

1 Corinthians 2:8
the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;
 
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