To Those Who Say Jesus Was God.

Gary Mac

Well-known member
I'm telling you his beliefs not mine.

I'm a Trinitarian !

See my threads in the Trinity forum and God is Good thread in the Apologetics forum.

Also see post #3 in this thread on the Person of Christ as God.
Im a son of God not of a man made trinity doctrine. I and the Father are one, He in me and I in Him are one, see Jesus instructions for us to be in John 17. Worked for Jesus and it woks for me.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Are you saying Jesus is not God?
No Jesus was saying he was Gods son and obeyed and prayed to his God. I only believe him to be Gods son and by identification with him as a son of God myself he was spot on. No where did Jesus claim to be God and not Gods son, only man made doctrines make that false accusation of him. Even those who had Jesus crucified made the false claim that he made himself God, he was innocent of those charges and falsely accused just as he is today by those not knowing who the God is who sent that man to testify of Him.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
more rambling void of scripture and filled with personal opinions.
If you think that I came up with the ideas ofto be one in the Father with He in you and you in Him as one, and to have the mind of Christ and to walk as He walks in His same light, and to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect is my ideas then praise God for you have identified me with Him.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
No where did Jesus claim to be God
FALSE -
"I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!" —Revelation 1:17-18

When Jesus came to Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples the mother of all questions, "Who do you say I am?" (Matthew 16:15; Mark 8:29; Luke 9:20). Mormons answer this question by saying that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer; Jehovah's Witnesses answer by saying that Jesus is the archangel Michael; New Agers say Jesus is an avatar or enlightened messenger. Jesus, however, answered by claiming that He was God.

First, Jesus claimed to be the unique Son of God. As a result, the Jewish leaders tried to kill Him because in "calling God his own Father, [Jesus was] making himself equal with God" (John 5:18 NIV). In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which God revealed Himself to Moses from the burning bush (Exodus 3:14). To the Jews this was the epitome of blasphemy, for they knew that in doing so Jesus was clearly claiming to be God. On yet another occasion, Jesus explicitly told the Jews: " 'I and the Father are one.' Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?' 'We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God' " (John 10:30-33). https://www.oneplace.com/ministries...-claim-to-be-god-by-hank-hanegraaff-8825.html
 

ferengi

Well-known member
No where did Jesus claim to be God
Furthermore, Jesus made an unmistakable claim to deity before the Chief Priests and the whole Sanhedrin. Caiaphas the High Priest asked him: " 'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' 'I am,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven' " (Mark 14:61-62 NIV). A biblically illiterate person might well have missed the import of Jesus' words. Caiaphas and the Council, however, did not. They knew that in saying he was "the Son of Man" who would come "on the clouds of heaven" he was making an overt reference to the Son of Man in Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 7:13-14). In doing so, He was not only claiming to be the preexistent Sovereign of the Universe but also prophesying that He would vindicate His claim by judging the very court that was now condemning Him. Moreover, by combining Daniel's prophecy with David's proclamation in Psalm 110, Jesus was claiming that He would sit upon the throne of Israel's God and share God's very glory. To students of the Old Testament this was the height of "blasphemy," thus "they all condemned him as worthy of death" (Mark 14:64-65).

Finally, Jesus claimed to possess the very attributes of God. For example, He claimed omniscience by telling Peter, "This very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times" (Matthew 26:34); declared omnipotence by not only resurrecting Lazarus (John 11:43) but by raising Himself from the dead (see John 2:19); and professed omnipresence by promising He would be with His disciples "to the very end of the age" (Matthew 28:20). Not only so, but Jesus said to the paralytic in Luke 5:20, "Friend, your sins are forgiven". In doing so, He claimed a prerogative reserved for God alone. In addition, when Thomas worshiped Jesus saying "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28), Jesus responded with commendation rather than condemnation. https://www.oneplace.com/ministries...-claim-to-be-god-by-hank-hanegraaff-8825.html
 

ferengi

Well-known member
No where did Jesus claim to be God

What Credentials Back Up Jesus' Claim to Deity?

"When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, 'Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?' Jesus replied, 'Go back and report to John what you hear and see; The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.'"Matthew 11:2-5

Jesus not only claimed to be God but also provided many convincing proofs that he indeed was divine.

First, Jesus demonstrated that he was God in human flesh by manifesting the credential of sinlessness. While the Qur'an exhorts Muhammad to seek forgiveness for his sins, the Bible exonerates Messiah saying Jesus "had no sin" (2 Corinthians 5:21). And this is not a singular statement. John declares, "and in him is no sin" (1 John 3:5), and Peter says Jesus "committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth" (1 Peter 2:22). Jesus himself went so far as to challenge his antagonists asking, "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?" (John 8:46)

Furthermore, Jesus demonstrated supernatural authority over sickness, the forces of nature, fallen angels, and even death itself. Matthew 4 records that Jesus went throughout Galilee teaching, preaching "and healing every disease and sickness among the people" (v.23). Mark 4 documents Jesus rebuking the wind and the waves saying, "Quiet! Be still!" (v.39). In Luke 4 Jesus encounters a man possessed by an evil spirit and commands the demon to "Come out of him!" (v.35). And in John 4, Jesus tells a royal official whose son was close to death, "Your son will live" (v.50). In fact, the four Gospels record how Jesus demonstrated ultimate power over death through the immutable fact of his resurrection.

Finally, the credentials of Christ's deity are seen in the lives of countless men, women, and children. Each day, people of every tongue and tribe and nation experience the resurrected Christ by repenting of their sins and receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives. Thus, they not only come to know about Christ evidentially, but experientially Christ becomes more real to them than the very flesh upon their bones.

For further study, see Millard J. Erickson, The Word Became Flesh: A Contemporary Incarnational Christology (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1996); and William Lane Craig, Reasonable Faith: Christian Truth and Apologetics, rev. ed. (Wheaton, Ill.: Crossway Books, 1994), chapters 7 and 8. Log onto the Christian Research Institute’s Web site at www.equip.org.
Adapted from Hank Hanegraaff, The Bible Answer Book (Nashville: J. Countryman, 2004).
 

ferengi

Well-known member
No Jesus was saying he was Gods son and obeyed and prayed to his God. I only believe him to be Gods son and by identification with him as a son of God myself he was spot on. No where did Jesus claim to be God and not Gods son, only man made doctrines make that false accusation of him. Even those who had Jesus crucified made the false claim that he made himself God, he was innocent of those charges and falsely accused just as he is today by those not knowing who the God is who sent that man to testify of Him.
If Jesus is not god then what is the Trinity?
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Gods kingdom is one that has not been rearranged by man but man re rearranged by God.

It is absurd to talk about being born from above if you have not received the disposition from the One who is above where you juggle yourself with self imposed beliefs and laws to govern your beliefs. God makes the alteration manifest in your actual life, or in your case is supposed to.

What difference has your salvation and sanctifications made if any at all to walk as He walks to be perfect as He is perfect that He manifests in man by His Spirit, any at all? You say you are born again but refuse His salvation to be these things He said you would be If you did believe Him and follow His way. You cant make that claim at all least you have received to be as He is and in His same image. What do you think that Jesus said God sent him for anyway? Was it not to show you His way? The one you mock and call blasphemy when he was very clear to walk as He does and have His same mind, perfect as He is? Who really is the one who does not follow the one God sent for you to be like and the blasphemer here? It isnt I for I applied all that Jesus said I should be and would be and I am.
No one says we shouldn't be like Jesus.

No one is saying a Christian doesn't have God living in them.

I believe the problem is when you claim to be God.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
FALSE -
"I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!" —Revelation 1:17-18

When Jesus came to Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples the mother of all questions, "Who do you say I am?" (Matthew 16:15; Mark 8:29; Luke 9:20). Mormons answer this question by saying that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer; Jehovah's Witnesses answer by saying that Jesus is the archangel Michael; New Agers say Jesus is an avatar or enlightened messenger. Jesus, however, answered by claiming that He was God.

First, Jesus claimed to be the unique Son of God. As a result, the Jewish leaders tried to kill Him because in "calling God his own Father, [Jesus was] making himself equal with God" (John 5:18 NIV). In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which God revealed Himself to Moses from the burning bush (Exodus 3:14). To the Jews this was the epitome of blasphemy, for they knew that in doing so Jesus was clearly claiming to be God. On yet another occasion, Jesus explicitly told the Jews: " 'I and the Father are one.' Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?' 'We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God' " (John 10:30-33). https://www.oneplace.com/ministries...-claim-to-be-god-by-hank-hanegraaff-8825.html
That is speaking of God not Jesus.

And all who are of God answer that Jesus is pour brother for we have the same Father who is God. Jesus said he never spoke of himself but of his Father who sent him, you just dont believe Jesus is all, you believe the creed you are chained to instead. You cannot copy and past where Jesus said he was God and not Gods son. It isnt there.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
No one says we shouldn't be like Jesus.

No one is saying a Christian doesn't have God living in them.

I believe the problem is when you claim to be God.
You only falsely accuse me of claiming to be God.

What you dont seem to be able to grasp is that all who are of God knows no man is a god, no flesh inherits the kingdom of God. And knows that the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation as a man is observed but is within you just as Jesus said it is. Religious folk has made a man a god and wait to observe a man as a god to come which never has happened and never will. These only waste their time seeking an idol instead of opening the door to the One who is at their door knocking this day.

if anyone has made themselves a god it is you for you dictating to Him your own rules for Him to be as you say of Him instead of being like Him yourself as He demands of us.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
If Jesus is not god then what is the Trinity?
there is no such thing as a trinity God, that is a man made doctrine. Either He is in you and you in Him are one or you are not. If there is three persons in a godhead it is He is your Father, He is a Spirit and you are His son, these three are one see Jesus prayer to his God for you to be in John 17. He in you and you in Him as one as jesus was one in Him no different at all .
 

ferengi

Well-known member
there is no such thing as a trinity God,
FALSE-
While it has become increasingly popular to suggest that the doctrine of the Trinity is derived from pagan sources, in reality, this Christian essential is thoroughly biblical. The word “Trinity”—like “incarnation”— is not found in Scripture; however, it aptly codifies what God has condescended to reveal to us about his nature and being. In short, the Trinitarian platform contains three planks: (1) there is but one God; (2) the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; (3) Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct.

The first plank underscores that there is only one God. Christianity is not polytheistic but fiercely monotheistic. “You are my witnesses, declares the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me” (Isaiah 43:10, emphasis added).

The second plank emphasizes that in hundreds of Scripture passages the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are declared to be fully and completely God. As a case in point, the apostle Paul says that, “there is but one God the Father” (1 Corinthians 8:6). The Father, speaking of the Son, says, “Your throne, O God, will last forever and forever” (Hebrews 1:8). And when Ananias “lied to the Holy Spirit,” Peter points out that he had “not lied to men but to God” (Acts 5:3–4).

The third plank of the Trinitarian platform asserts that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct. Scripture clearly portrays subject/object relationships between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. For example, the Father and Son love one another, speak to each other (John 17:1–26), and together send the Holy Spirit (John 15:26). Additionally, Jesus proclaims that he and the Father are two distinct witnesses and two distinct judges (John 8:14–18). If Jesus were himself the Father, his argument would have been not only irrelevant but also fatally flawed; and if such were the case, he could not have been fully God.

It is important to note that when Trinitarians speak of one God they are referring to the nature or essence of God. Moreover, when they speak of persons they are referring to personal self-distinctions within the Godhead. Put another way, we believe in one What and three Who’s.

For further study, see James R. White, The Forgotten Trinity (Minneapolis: Bethany House, 2001).
 

civic

Well-known member
FALSE-
While it has become increasingly popular to suggest that the doctrine of the Trinity is derived from pagan sources, in reality, this Christian essential is thoroughly biblical. The word “Trinity”—like “incarnation”— is not found in Scripture; however, it aptly codifies what God has condescended to reveal to us about his nature and being. In short, the Trinitarian platform contains three planks: (1) there is but one God; (2) the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; (3) Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct.

The first plank underscores that there is only one God. Christianity is not polytheistic but fiercely monotheistic. “You are my witnesses, declares the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me” (Isaiah 43:10, emphasis added).

The second plank emphasizes that in hundreds of Scripture passages the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are declared to be fully and completely God. As a case in point, the apostle Paul says that, “there is but one God the Father” (1 Corinthians 8:6). The Father, speaking of the Son, says, “Your throne, O God, will last forever and forever” (Hebrews 1:8). And when Ananias “lied to the Holy Spirit,” Peter points out that he had “not lied to men but to God” (Acts 5:3–4).

The third plank of the Trinitarian platform asserts that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternally distinct. Scripture clearly portrays subject/object relationships between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. For example, the Father and Son love one another, speak to each other (John 17:1–26), and together send the Holy Spirit (John 15:26). Additionally, Jesus proclaims that he and the Father are two distinct witnesses and two distinct judges (John 8:14–18). If Jesus were himself the Father, his argument would have been not only irrelevant but also fatally flawed; and if such were the case, he could not have been fully God.

It is important to note that when Trinitarians speak of one God they are referring to the nature or essence of God. Moreover, when they speak of persons they are referring to personal self-distinctions within the Godhead. Put another way, we believe in one What and three Who’s.

For further study, see James R. White, The Forgotten Trinity (Minneapolis: Bethany House, 2001).
Great book
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
What Credentials Back Up Jesus' Claim to Deity?
"When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, 'Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?' Jesus replied, 'Go back and report to John what you hear and see; The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.'"Matthew 11:2-5

Jesus not only claimed to be God but also provided many convincing proofs that he indeed was divine.

First, Jesus demonstrated that he was God in human flesh by manifesting the credential of sinlessness. While the Qur'an exhorts Muhammad to seek forgiveness for his sins, the Bible exonerates Messiah saying Jesus "had no sin" (2 Corinthians 5:21). And this is not a singular statement. John declares, "and in him is no sin" (1 John 3:5), and Peter says Jesus "committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth" (1 Peter 2:22). Jesus himself went so far as to challenge his antagonists asking, "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?" (John 8:46)

Furthermore, Jesus demonstrated supernatural authority over sickness, the forces of nature, fallen angels, and even death itself. Matthew 4 records that Jesus went throughout Galilee teaching, preaching "and healing every disease and sickness among the people" (v.23). Mark 4 documents Jesus rebuking the wind and the waves saying, "Quiet! Be still!" (v.39). In Luke 4 Jesus encounters a man possessed by an evil spirit and commands the demon to "Come out of him!" (v.35). And in John 4, Jesus tells a royal official whose son was close to death, "Your son will live" (v.50). In fact, the four Gospels record how Jesus demonstrated ultimate power over death through the immutable fact of his resurrection.

Finally, the credentials of Christ's deity are seen in the lives of countless men, women, and children. Each day, people of every tongue and tribe and nation experience the resurrected Christ by repenting of their sins and receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives. Thus, they not only come to know about Christ evidentially, but experientially Christ becomes more real to them than the very flesh upon their bones.

For further study, see Millard J. Erickson, The Word Became Flesh: A Contemporary Incarnational Christology (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1996); and William Lane Craig, Reasonable Faith: Christian Truth and Apologetics, rev. ed. (Wheaton, Ill.: Crossway Books, 1994), chapters 7 and 8. Log onto the Christian Research Institute’s Web site at www.equip.org.
Adapted from Hank Hanegraaff, The Bible Answer Book (Nashville: J. Countryman, 2004).
His credentials was the same ones we all have in the Father for our identity is with Him just as Jesus was identified with Him where Gods deity is at work in man by His Spirit.

For further study see what Jesus said you would be if you have from God that what he had from Him.
You only falsely accuse me of claiming to be God.

What you dont seem to be able to grasp is that all who are of God knows no man is a god, no flesh inherits the kingdom of God. And knows that the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation as a man is observed but is within you just as Jesus said it is. Religious folk has made a man a god and wait to observe a man as a god to come which never has happened and never will. These only waste their time seeking an idol instead of opening the door to the One who is at their door knocking this day.

if anyone has made themselves a god it is you for you dictating to Him your own rules for Him to be as you say of Him instead of being like Him yourself as He demands of us.
Only false to those who cannot relate to God as Jesus did by having in you the same Spirit of God Who was in Christ Jesus WHo is God. .
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Did you read the evidence?
Yes I read Jesus claim he was Gods son and his God sent him to who you the way to his God and could do noting at all without his God who sent him, the one I read who Jesus prayed to and obeyed and called Him Father. Did you read his evidence? Na you just made up your own.
 
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