Today's Gospel from John 6: 1-15

LifeIn

LifeIn

Well-known member
The Gospel read at mass today is from John 6:1-15. It is the familiar story of the miraculous multiplication of loaves and fishes. About 200 years ago a movement called Rationalism began to offer an interpretation of this story that strips the story of its miraculous cause. That interpretation holds that what probably happened was that the people were so moved by love that they began sharing what they happened to be carrying with them. The message of love and sharing, while a nice message, fails to capture the real meaning of the event. The meaning is connected to the verses that follow these, which comprise the Bread of Life Discourse. It is absolutely necessary that the multiplication of the loaves be seen as a miraculous result of Jesus's will and not the result of mere human sharing, because the multiplication of loaves prefigures the institution of the Eucharist, which John then covers in the Bread of Life Discourse.
 
PeanutGallery

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
LifeIn said:
... That interpretation holds that what probably happened was that the people were so moved by love that they began sharing what they happened to be carrying with them.
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Interpretation is based on probability?

... the multiplication of loaves prefigures the institution of the Eucharist, which John then covers in the Bread of Life Discourse.
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That's not what the context states:
John 6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
 
M

mica

Well-known member
LifeIn said:
The Gospel read at mass today is from John 6:1-15. It is the familiar story of the miraculous multiplication of loaves and fishes. About 200 years ago a movement called Rationalism began to offer an interpretation of this story that strips the story of its miraculous cause. That interpretation holds that what probably happened was that the people were so moved by love that they began sharing what they happened to be carrying with them. The message of love and sharing, while a nice message, fails to capture the real meaning of the event. The meaning is connected to the verses that follow these, which comprise the Bread of Life Discourse. It is absolutely necessary that the multiplication of the loaves be seen as a miraculous result of Jesus's will and not the result of mere human sharing, because the multiplication of loaves prefigures the institution of the Eucharist, which John then covers in the Bread of Life Discourse.
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It is absolutely necessary that the multiplication of the loaves be seen as a miraculous result of Jesus's will
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absolutely necessary for what?
 
Nondenom40

Nondenom40

Super Member
LifeIn said:
The Gospel read at mass today is from John 6:1-15. It is the familiar story of the miraculous multiplication of loaves and fishes. About 200 years ago a movement called Rationalism began to offer an interpretation of this story that strips the story of its miraculous cause. That interpretation holds that what probably happened was that the people were so moved by love that they began sharing what they happened to be carrying with them. The message of love and sharing, while a nice message, fails to capture the real meaning of the event. The meaning is connected to the verses that follow these, which comprise the Bread of Life Discourse. It is absolutely necessary that the multiplication of the loaves be seen as a miraculous result of Jesus's will and not the result of mere human sharing, because the multiplication of loaves prefigures the institution of the Eucharist, which John then covers in the Bread of Life Discourse.
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The problem is the multiplication of the bread actually happened. Nothing happens during your mass to the bread or wine. So there is no miraculous equivalent here.
 
LifeIn

LifeIn

Well-known member
Nondenom40 said:
The problem is the multiplication of the bread actually happened. Nothing happens during your mass to the bread or wine. ..
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The rest of the Bread of Life Discourse, together with the Last Supper implies something does happen.
 
leonard03782

leonard03782

Well-known member
LifeIn said:
The Gospel read at mass today is from John 6:1-15. It is the familiar story of the miraculous multiplication of loaves and fishes. About 200 years ago a movement called Rationalism began to offer an interpretation of this story that strips the story of its miraculous cause. That interpretation holds that what probably happened was that the people were so moved by love that they began sharing what they happened to be carrying with them. The message of love and sharing, while a nice message, fails to capture the real meaning of the event. The meaning is connected to the verses that follow these, which comprise the Bread of Life Discourse. It is absolutely necessary that the multiplication of the loaves be seen as a miraculous result of Jesus's will and not the result of mere human sharing, because the multiplication of loaves prefigures the institution of the Eucharist, which John then covers in the Bread of Life Discourse.
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Is this your own private interpretation of the Scriptures or is it defined somewhere by rome? If it is defined by rome, please tell us where we may find this interpretation as it is infallibly taught.
 
M

mica

Well-known member
LifeIn said:
In the same way that many verses in Isaiah foreshadow the coming of Christ.

In the posting before yours.
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ok, and I looked them up. so what in those verses - specifically causes you to connect that because the fish/ loaves multiplied that the bread at the last supper did also? did they only have 1 small bite of bread to share amongst them all at that meal?

do those catholic wafers used for the catholic 'communion' all miraculously multiply from 1 small wafer?

that really should cut down the cost of communion wafers for the RCC parishes.
 
LifeIn

LifeIn

Well-known member
mica said:
ok, and I looked them up. so what in those verses - specifically causes you to connect that because the fish/ loaves multiplied that the bread at the last supper did also?
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I didn't say the bread at the last supper multiplied. I said that John 6:54-57, having coming just after the multiplication of the loaves, suggests that something miraculous is involved that connects bread with the body and blood of Jesus.
 
Nondenom40

Nondenom40

Super Member
LifeIn said:
I didn't say the bread at the last supper multiplied. I said that John 6:54-57, having coming just after the multiplication of the loaves, suggests that something miraculous is involved that connects bread with the body and blood of Jesus.
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It does. That by taking in and receiving Jesus into your life through the gospel you will be saved and born again. It has nothing to do with eating god. But believing just like the bible says, repeatedly.
 
PeanutGallery

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
LifeIn said:
It was an analogy, not an equivalence.
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It was prophecy fulfilled.
John 6:54-57 does.
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Nothing in there speaks of RCC's institution of the Eucharist.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
 
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