Ton of man-made, unbiblical doctrines

dingoling. said:
Were does the CCC in that passage say the we "assist God"?
Click to expand...
"153 When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come "from flesh and blood", but from "my Father who is in heaven".24 Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"25[/quote]

After rereading it, I think it means God's grace assists the man, not God. My apologies!
 
Bonnie said:
"153 When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come "from flesh and blood", but from "my Father who is in heaven".24 Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"25
Click to expand...

After rereading it, I think it means God's grace assists the man, not God. My apologies!
[/QUOTE]
I read passages of the CCC like this one and check it out with scripture, I don't find anything wrong with it.

Do you find anything wrong with this passage of the CCC?
 
dingoling. said:
After rereading it, I think it means God's grace assists the man, not God. My apologies!
Click to expand...
I read passages of the CCC like this one and check it out with scripture, I don't find anything wrong with it.

Do you find anything wrong with this passage of the CCC?
Click to expand...

That is because you read the CCC through your a priori Catholic "glasses." You have been indoctrinated by your church to believe blindly everything it teaches, no matter if it is biblical or not.

Faith is not man's response to God, per se, but the gift of God, which is worked in our hearts via the Gospel message. But you also posted where the heading is "Faith is a grace"--and "grace" is the unmerited favor of God, i.e., a gift. Ergo, faith too is the gift of God.

Simple.

This isn't the worst thing I have seen from the CCC. The part about Mary being the "cause of our salvation" pretty much gets that title, at least, until something worse is posted from the CCC.
 
Last edited:
dingoling. said:
We are told by a nCCs that the Catholic church is buried under a ton of man-made, unbiblical doctrines. I asked the nCCs if they have every read through the CCC and they said no.

I am curious how many either CC or nCCs have read through the CCC published in originally published in 1992?

I have read through the entire Catechism and I estimate that the issues the nCCs have with Catholic teachings make up less than 5% of the entire Catechism. The other 95% of the teachings the nCCs don't ever seem to address. I assume that they don't have issues with those teachings. So how can the Catholic church be buried under a ton of man-made, unbiblical doctrines if only about 5% of our teachings are addressed?
Click to expand...
Here is another passage from the CCC:

MAN'S CAPACITY FOR GOD

I. The Desire for God

27 The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God; and God never ceases to draw man to himself. Only in God will he find the truth and happiness he never stops searching for:

The dignity of man rests above all on the fact that he is called to communion with God. This invitation to converse with God is addressed to man as soon as he comes into being. For if man exists it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence. He cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and entrusts himself to his creator.1

28 In many ways, throughout history down to the present day, men have given expression to their quest for God in their religious beliefs and behaviour: in their prayers, sacrifices, rituals, meditations, and so forth. These forms of religious expression, despite the ambiguities they often bring with them, are so universal that one may well call man a religious being:

From one ancestor (God) made all nations to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live, so that they would search for God and perhaps grope for him and find him - though indeed he is not far from each one of us. For "in him we live and move and have our being."2

29 But this "intimate and vital bond of man to God" (GS 19 # 1) can be forgotten, overlooked, or even explicitly rejected by man.3 Such attitudes can have different causes: revolt against evil in the world; religious ignorance or indifference; the cares and riches of this world; the scandal of bad example on the part of believers; currents of thought hostile to religion; finally, that attitude of sinful man which makes him hide from God out of fear and flee his call.4

30 "Let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice."5 Although man can forget God or reject him, He never ceases to call every man to seek him, so as to find life and happiness. But this search for God demands of man every effort of intellect, a sound will, "an upright heart", as well as the witness of others who teach him to seek God.

You are great, O Lord, and greatly to be praised: great is your power and your wisdom is without measure. and man, so small a part of your creation, wants to praise you: this man, though clothed with mortality and bearing the evidence of sin and the proof that you withstand the proud. Despite everything, man, though but a small a part of your creation, wants to praise you. You yourself encourage him to delight in your praise, for you have made us for yourself, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.6

Are there a ton of man-made, unbiblical doctrines here?

I will take it the no nCCs here has ever read through the CCC.
 
dingoling. said:
Here is another passage from the CCC:

MAN'S CAPACITY FOR GOD

I. The Desire for God

27 The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God; and God never ceases to draw man to himself. Only in God will he find the truth and happiness he never stops searching for:

The dignity of man rests above all on the fact that he is called to communion with God. This invitation to converse with God is addressed to man as soon as he comes into being. For if man exists it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence. He cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and entrusts himself to his creator.1

28 In many ways, throughout history down to the present day, men have given expression to their quest for God in their religious beliefs and behaviour: in their prayers, sacrifices, rituals, meditations, and so forth. These forms of religious expression, despite the ambiguities they often bring with them, are so universal that one may well call man a religious being:

From one ancestor (God) made all nations to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live, so that they would search for God and perhaps grope for him and find him - though indeed he is not far from each one of us. For "in him we live and move and have our being."2

29 But this "intimate and vital bond of man to God" (GS 19 # 1) can be forgotten, overlooked, or even explicitly rejected by man.3 Such attitudes can have different causes: revolt against evil in the world; religious ignorance or indifference; the cares and riches of this world; the scandal of bad example on the part of believers; currents of thought hostile to religion; finally, that attitude of sinful man which makes him hide from God out of fear and flee his call.4

30 "Let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice."5 Although man can forget God or reject him, He never ceases to call every man to seek him, so as to find life and happiness. But this search for God demands of man every effort of intellect, a sound will, "an upright heart", as well as the witness of others who teach him to seek God.

You are great, O Lord, and greatly to be praised: great is your power and your wisdom is without measure. and man, so small a part of your creation, wants to praise you: this man, though clothed with mortality and bearing the evidence of sin and the proof that you withstand the proud. Despite everything, man, though but a small a part of your creation, wants to praise you. You yourself encourage him to delight in your praise, for you have made us for yourself, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.6

Are there a ton of man-made, unbiblical doctrines here?

I will take it the no nCCs here has ever read through the CCC.
Click to expand...
This appears fine. God did create us to have a relationship with Him, and without Him, we have a big "hole" in our souls that people try to fill with everything BUT God. The great French mathematician, Blaise Pascal, once wrote "there is a void in every man that can only be filled by God." And he was right.

But do note that I never said ALL of the CCC is made up of man-made doctrines--but tons--lots--of it IS. Please read me more carefully in the future.
 
Last edited:
dingoling. said:
How is that different from scripture? Scripture appears to contradict itself, even though it doesn't, but it takes some effort to understand what it is really saying.
Click to expand...
Remember that the next time we post what Paul wrote about being given the righteousness of God, or that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works, so no one may boast....and that Mary had 4 sons and at least 2 daughters, after Jesus' birth....

None of these things is the least difficult to understand, IF one reads them without RCC glasses on....
 
Last edited:
Bonnie said:
Remember that the next time we post what Paul wrote about being given the righteousness of God, or that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works, so no one may boast....and that Mary had 4 sons and at least 2 daughters, after Jesus' birth....

None of these things is the least difficult to understand, IF one reads them without RCC glasses on....
Click to expand...
That is the truth.
 
Bonnie said:
This appears fine. God did create us to have a relationship with Him, and without Him, we have a big "hole" in our souls that people try to fill with everything BUT God. The great French mathematician, Blaise Pascal, once wrote "there is a void in every man that can only be filled by God." And he was right.

But do note that I never said ALL of the CCC is made up of man-made doctrines--but tons--lots--of it IS. Please read me more carefully in the future.
Click to expand...
When you say that tons of man made, unbiblical doctrines that communicates that most of what the Catholic teaches is not correct.

The point of this thread is to show that is not quite correct. When I read through the CCC I found just the opposite was true. The picture the nCCs were painting of the Catholic Church was not correct.
 
dingoling. said:
When you say that tons of man made, unbiblical doctrines that communicates that most of what the Catholic teaches is not correct.

The point of this thread is to show that is not quite correct. When I read through the CCC I found just the opposite was true. The picture the nCCs were painting of the Catholic Church was not correct.
Click to expand...
Yep and instead you have proved Bonnie right. You are the one that stated we couldn't read the bible without a teacher post 117 the last words of... So I do not have a lot of confidence in your reading of the catechism at all.
 
dingoling. said:
So how is the Catholic Church's teaching not scriptural?
Click to expand...
You teach it is faith plus and never are clear on the plus. You teach it is not a free gift. The RCC teaches it is man's response and then tries to cover up the false teachings. It is not scriptural at all. After the quote you posted it goes back to it being man, man, man. That is not scriptural at all.

But it is followed by Faith is a human act

154 - Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act. Trusting in God and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary neither to human freedom nor to human reason. Even in human relations it is not contrary to our dignity to believe what other persons tell us about themselves and their intentions, or to trust their promises (for example, when a man and a woman marry) to share a communion of life with one another. If this is so, still less is it contrary to our dignity to "yield by faith the full submission of. . . intellect and will to God who reveals", and to share in an interior communion with him.

We haven't even got to the false Marian doctrines and Mary co this and that. So many false teachings. I laugh when I read about penance in the catechism, not one RC priests tried to right their wrongs in hiding what was happening to children, not one who committed the evil made restitution to their victims. You see the RCC doesn't even follow what is in its precious catechism. The catechism is not scripture and never will be. It has false teachings of men in it. It is not inspired.
 
balshan said:
You teach it is faith plus and never are clear on the plus. You teach it is not a free gift. The RCC teaches it is man's response and then tries to cover up the false teachings. It is not scriptural at all. After the quote you posted it goes back to it being man, man, man. That is not scriptural at all.

But it is followed by Faith is a human act

154 - Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act. Trusting in God and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary neither to human freedom nor to human reason. Even in human relations it is not contrary to our dignity to believe what other persons tell us about themselves and their intentions, or to trust their promises (for example, when a man and a woman marry) to share a communion of life with one another. If this is so, still less is it contrary to our dignity to "yield by faith the full submission of. . . intellect and will to God who reveals", and to share in an interior communion with him.

We haven't even got to the false Marian doctrines and Mary co this and that. So many false teachings. I laugh when I read about penance in the catechism, not one RC priests tried to right their wrongs in hiding what was happening to children, not one who committed the evil made restitution to their victims. You see the RCC doesn't even follow what is in its precious catechism. The catechism is not scripture and never will be. It has false teachings of men in it. It is not inspired.
Click to expand...
Actually what follows a true faith is repentance and becoming a new creation by the indwelling HS, which leads to acts of love toward others, out of a loving, regenerated heart. Again, ALL God's doing, not ours.
 
Bonnie said:
Actually what follows a true faith is repentance and becoming a new creation by the indwelling HS, which leads to acts of love toward others, out of a loving, regenerated heart. Again, ALL God's doing, not ours.
Click to expand...
Scriptural repentance is unknown to most RCs and as pointed out by other posters the word has been replace in some RC versions of the bible. They have replaced it with penance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top