Toward a defintion of Psychikos

brightfame52

Well-known member
But you have no understanding of what a natural psychikos man is

Catch 22

one cannot receive the spirit or be regeneated without faith
The natural man , the man in his natural identity, can does not receive the things of the Spirit of God neither can he understand them. 1 Cor 2 14
 
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TomFL

Guest
The natural man , the man in his natural identity, can does not receive the things of the Spirit of God neither can he understand them. 1 Cor 2 14
The psychilos man

or you have catch 22

one cannot receive the spirit or be regenerated without faith in the true gospel
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The psychilos man

or you have catch 22

one cannot receive the spirit or be regenerated without faith in the true gospel
Also the definition of the natural man is

what is natural, as it relates to physical (tangible) life alone (i.e. apart from God's inworking of faith

Its physical tangible life alone, meaning apart from the New Birth which is the inworking of Faith, for Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22

Apart from having the Spirit, we have physical tangible life alone. Thats the natural man. That man cannot receive the things of God nor understand or know them, such as the Gospel is !
 
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TomFL

Guest
Also the definition of the natural man is

what is natural, as it relates to physical (tangible) life alone (i.e. apart from God's inworking of faith

Its physical tangible life alone, meaning apart from the New Birth which is the inworking of Faith, for Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22

Apart from having the Spirit, we have physical tangible life alone. Thats the natural man. That man cannot receive the things of God nor understand or know them, such as the Gospel is !
You are stuck in a catch 22

If man can't understand the gospel and he can't receive the spirit or be regenerated without faith in the gospel as

scripture notes you have no way to get men saved
 

Sketo

Well-known member
1. adj. ψυχικὸς ἄνθρωπος an unspiritual man, one who lives on the purely material plane, without being touched by the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:14
So you agree with Paul... it is necessary for “unspiritual man” to“be touched by the Spirit of Godin order for him to understand and believethe things of the Spirit of God”!

Paul says...
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14
 
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TomFL

Guest
So you agree with Paul... it is necessary for “unspiritual man” to“be touched by the Spirit of Godin order for him to understand and believethe things of the Spirit of God”!

Paul says...
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14
I agree with what I stated

The psychikos

does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

all however are not psyckikos which is shown by chapter 1 where men are saved by the foolishness of preaching

and the fact men cannot be born again or receive the spirit without faith in the gospel

which you make impossible by applying 1Co 2:14 to all men

The last being something you never address


l
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You are stuck in a catch 22

If man can't understand the gospel and he can't receive the spirit or be regenerated without faith in the gospel as

scripture notes you have no way to get men saved
You made a thread and disagreed with your ownself. Incredible lol
 

Sketo

Well-known member
The psychikos

does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14
So you agree Psychikos = natural
all however are not psyckikos which is shown by chapter 1 where men are saved by the foolishness of preaching
If not all are natural then what are they?

The natural (psychikos) person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14
 
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TomFL

Guest
So you agree Psychikos = natural

If not all are natural then what are they?

The natural (psychikos) person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

I agree the psychikos are just what I stated they are

Its in the op toward a definition of phychikos

BDAG'sdefinition is fair


1. adj. ψυχικὸς ἄνθρωπος an unspiritual man, one who lives on the purely material plane, without being touched by the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:14. σῶμα ψυχ. a physical body 15:44a, b. The wisdom that does not come fr. above is called ἐπίγειος, ψυχικός (unspiritual), δαιμονιώδης Js 3:15.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 894.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I agree the psychikos are just what I stated they are

Its in the op toward a definition of phychikos

BDAG'sdefinition is fair


1. adj. ψυχικὸς ἄνθρωπος an unspiritual man, one who lives on the purely material plane, without being touched by the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:14. σῶμα ψυχ. a physical body 15:44a, b. The wisdom that does not come fr. above is called ἐπίγειος, ψυχικός (unspiritual), δαιμονιώδης Js 3:15.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 894.
That definition there applies to the natural man. Thats anyone not born again !! Aint no such thing as touched with the Spirit of God lol, A person is either born of the flesh or born of the Spirit, Jn 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That word material means:

Earthly, physical, fleshly, carnal, non spiritual, sensual,worldly

That particular definition, you still shoot yourself in the foot !
 

Sketo

Well-known member
I agree the psychikos are just what I stated they are

1. adj. ψυχικὸς ἄνθρωπος an unspiritual man, one who lives on the purely material plane, without being touched by the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:14. σῶμα ψυχ. a physical body 15:44a, b. The wisdom that does not come fr. above is called ἐπίγειος, ψυχικός (unspiritual), δαιμονιώδης Js 3:15.
And what reason does this verse give as to why they “do not accept” and are “not able to understand”???

“because they are spiritually discerned.”

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural person... is not able to understand them... because they are spiritually discerned!

The contrast is between natural discernment and spiritual discernment!
 
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TomFL

Guest
That definition there applies to the natural man. Thats anyone not born again !! Aint no such thing as touched with the Spirit of God lol, A person is either born of the flesh or born of the Spirit, Jn 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That word material means:

Earthly, physical, fleshly, carnal, non spiritual, sensual,worldly

That particular definition, you still shoot yourself in the foot !
Sorry 1Co does not say that is anyone not born again

and it is clear 1Co 1 shows men understanding and believing the gospel and getting saved

and scripture confirms

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory
 
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TomFL

Guest
And what reason does this verse give as to why they “do not accept” and are “not able to understand”???

“because they are spiritually discerned.”

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural person... is not able to understand them... because they are spiritually discerned!

The contrast is between natural discernment and spiritual discernment!
And that applies to the psychilos

but you keep ignoring that I stated not all are psychikos and gave 1Co 1:18-21 as evidence

Further you have to ignore all these



John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

1 Peter 1:21–25 (KJV 1900)

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Man is regenerated through faith in the Gospel

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so
 
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TomFL

Guest
And what reason does this verse give as to why they “do not accept” and are “not able to understand”???

“because they are spiritually discerned.”

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural person... is not able to understand them... because they are spiritually discerned!

The contrast is between natural discernment and spiritual discernment!
Frankly I don't know why you keep posting this

You are asuming all are psychikos

and thus no one can understand the gospel

it is contrary to scripture


John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

1 Peter 1:21–25 (KJV 1900)

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Man is regenerated through faith in the Gospel

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 1:16 (KJV 1900)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so

Do you really imagine that by your interpretation you can falsify 8 verses and contradict the context that verse appears in which shows men believing the gospel and getting saved

You have been ignoring these verse since they first appeared

and I can provide other verses showing faith precedes regeneration as regeneration is new life provides a purified heart and is a spiritual resurrection which have also been ignored
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry 1Co does not say that is anyone not born again

and it is clear 1Co 1 shows men understanding and believing the gospel and getting saved

and scripture confirms

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory
That is what it means. The natural man is anyone not born again of the Spirit.
 
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TomFL

Guest
That is what it means. The natural man is anyone not born again of the Spirit.
Fraid not

because scripture shows god's word is understandable

and the previous chapter shows men getting saved by believing the foolishness of preaching
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Frankly I don't know why you keep posting this

You are asuming all are psychikos

No, the Scriptures plainly teach that.
But it's "total depravity", so your false theology causes you to reject Scripture.

and thus no one can understand the gospel

... unless they are first regenerated.
Exactly.

And THAT contradicts your false theology of "you need to be able to understand the gospel before you can be regenerated", so you reject THAT because of your false theology as well.

(Is anyone starting to see a pattern yet....? ;) )


it is contrary to scripture


John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

... to someone who is regenerated, certainly!

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

... to someone who is regenerated, certainly!
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Frankly I don't know why you keep posting this

You are asuming all are psychikos
You are assuming that you don’t need to be spiritual person in order to understand the gospel!
The only other state is “natural” and Paul says...

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

and thus no one can understand the gospel
Not true! Paul says the spiritual person can understand the gospel!

Again the contrast is between “natural” discernment and “spiritual” discernment!

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14
The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so
Regeneration brings understanding I.e. spiritual discernment!
Do you really imagine that by your interpretation you can falsify 8 verses and contradict the context that verse appears in which shows men believing the gospel and getting saved
You are assuming something about those verses that is not there!
Your interpretation of then contradicts Paul!
You have been ignoring these verse since they first appeared
I’m not ignoring the verses I’m ignoring your interpretation of them because you contradict Paul!
and I can provide other verses showing faith precedes regeneration as regeneration is new life
No... you can provide verses then assume your contradiction of Paul into them!
 
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TomFL

Guest
You are assuming that you don’t need to be spiritual person in order to understand the gospel!
The only other state is “natural” and Paul says...

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14


Not true! Paul says the spiritual person can understand the gospel!

Again the contrast is between “natural” discernment and “spiritual” discernment!

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

Regeneration brings understanding I.e. spiritual discernment!

You are assuming something about those verses that is not there!
Your interpretation of then contradicts Paul!

I’m not ignoring the verses I’m ignoring your interpretation of them because you contradict Paul!

No... you can provide verses then assume your contradiction of Paul into them!
Sorry

but all that was needed to refute you have already ben posted

You don't address it

Frankly I don't know why you keep posting this

You are asuming all are psychikos

and thus no one can understand the gospel

it is contrary to scripture


John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

1 Peter 1:21–25 (KJV 1900)

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Man is regenerated through faith in the Gospel

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 1:16 (KJV 1900)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so

Do you really imagine that by your interpretation you can falsify 8 verses and contradict the context that verse appears in which shows men believing the gospel and getting saved

You have been ignoring these verse since they first appeared

and I can provide other verses showing faith precedes regeneration as regeneration is new life provides a purified heart and is a spiritual resurrection which have also been ignored


and you keep ignoring the fact those in Chapter 1:18b-23 understood and believed the gospel

and you keep ignoring the fact the Corinthians who could not be treated as spiritual understood and believed the gospel


I am sorry but you just keep ignoring all that is contrary to your view
 
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