Tree of Life

Buzzard

Well-known member
Hi Buzzard,

Sorry, still not tracking how this is relating to the tree of life.

God bless!
I thought the SDA's were given the Messages of the Three Angels of John's Rev.
:unsure:
OH;
they weren't but their Gods tell them the were
😵


Icy;
When you wear the ""Ear Rings"" of the Gods of Egypt
placed on you by those that speak for the Gods of Egypt
all you have is;
"""ears to hear """ the Voice of those that speak for
the Egyptian Gods

And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow
every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food;


(and 2 other trees also)

the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,
and the tree of knowledge of good and evil
.


Who are the 2 Trees ??????
 

pythons

Active member
Hi pythons,

That's good to hear. It seemed to me that a dismissal of a literal Tree of Life could potentially lead to a dismissal of a literal Adam and Eve.

So, do you dismiss the account of God kicking a literal Adam and Eve out of a literal Garden along with His rationale for doing so?

Genesis 3:21-24
The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.





It seems to me that you are dismissing the biblical creation account based on how you conflate the Greek's version of the creation of humanity? At what point do you become the expositor of truth over and against what the Scriptures plainly reveal?

God bless!


Catholics are required to believe / accept that God created the universe and everything in it "out of nothing"....
....Also required is the belief of a literal Adam and Eve and their fall from God's Grace.
...SEE: CCC #390

I take it as a matter of fact that God created everything seen and unseen and that this was done out of "nothing"...
...How God did this plays 3rd chair to the fact that all of it was accomplished by intelligent design.
....I find this a far more a respectful way to think about God than imagining the Greek God concept.

I know others within my own church have a wide degree of difference as to how things happen but I don't concern myself with that type of thing.
 

Icyspark

Active member
Catholics are required to believe / accept that God created the universe and everything in it "out of nothing"....
....Also required is the belief of a literal Adam and Eve and their fall from God's Grace.
...SEE: CCC #390

I take it as a matter of fact that God created everything seen and unseen and that this was done out of "nothing"...
...How God did this plays 3rd chair to the fact that all of it was accomplished by intelligent design.
....I find this a far more a respectful way to think about God than imagining the Greek God concept.

I know others within my own church have a wide degree of difference as to how things happen but I don't concern myself with that type of thing.


Hi pythons,

You are "required to believe" in a "literal Adam and Eve." On what basis are they determined to be literal beings? Are you defaulting to what the church tells you to believe, or do you use your own God-given intellect along with the impressions of the Spirit to inform you what is real and what is not?

As an aside to the above thought, do you accept the narrative of God calling Moses up on Mt. Sinai to receive the Ten Commandments? Do you accept the entire story as literal? If not, at what point do you get to determine that something is "symbolic"? Is something only "symbolic" if it disagrees with a tradition of the RCC which you are "required to believe"?

God bless!
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
The original Tree was provided to provide mankind perpetual physical life. If mankind stopped eating of the Tree, he would naturally succumb to entropy and death like everything else.
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.


"And Man became a living Soul"

So the question now is;
which part of man
"would naturally succumb to entropy and death like everything else.
"Physical, Spiritual; Soul,

Job 14:7

7 For there is hope of a tree,
if it be cut down, that it will sprout again,
and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.

8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth,
and the stock thereof die in the ground;

9 Yet through the scent of water it will bud,
and bring forth boughs like a plant.

10 But man dieth, and wasteth away:
yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

11 As the waters fail from the sea,
and the flood decayeth and drieth up:

12 So man lieth down, and riseth not:
till the heavens be no more,
they shall not awake,
nor be raised out of their sleep.

13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave,
that thou wouldest keep me secret,
until thy wrath be past,
that thou wouldest appoint me a set time,
and remember me!

14 If a man die, shall he live again?
all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
till my change come.

15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee:
thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
......
 

Kade Rystalmane

Well-known member
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.


"And Man became a living Soul"

So the question now is;
which part of man
"would naturally succumb to entropy and death like everything else.
"Physical, Spiritual; Soul,
Physical.
 

pythons

Active member
Hi pythons,

You are "required to believe" in a "literal Adam and Eve." On what basis are they determined to be literal beings? Are you defaulting to what the church tells you to believe, or do you use your own God-given intellect along with the impressions of the Spirit to inform you what is real and what is not?

As an aside to the above thought, do you accept the narrative of God calling Moses up on Mt. Sinai to receive the Ten Commandments? Do you accept the entire story as literal? If not, at what point do you get to determine that something is "symbolic"? Is something only "symbolic" if it disagrees with a tradition of the RCC which you are "required to believe"?

God bless!

If it's defined I believe in it.

You don't understand it but your appealing to the New Testament is an admission of the Authority of the Catholic Church....
...I believe that Moses was called up on Mt. Sinai to receive "THE COMMANDMENTS".
...A boatload MORE than 10.

Read Deuteronomy Chapter 5, particularly Verses 30 - 33.

God stopped at 10 because the people were terrified - there isn't a 10 commandment law - it's "THE LAW" which is every command mentioned in the 1st 5 Books of the Bible.
 

Mod7

Moderator
Staff member
Rule 24 states in part:

If two Christians want to debate each other, do not do so on the Mormon/JW/cult/RC forums but use the cult/religion forums to debate the cultists/not the other Christians. Please stick to the forum’s topic, debating those defending the religion they are promoting on that forum. Posters seeking to debate Evangelical Christians should take their discussions or questions to the appropriate forum, apologetics/etc.

Just a friendly reminder because some posts are close to the dividing line of debating other Christians in the SDA forum
 

JonHawk

Active member
Buzzard said:
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.

"And Man became a living Soul"

So the question now is;
which part of man
"would naturally succumb to entropy and death like everything else.
"Physical, Spiritual; Soul,

Physical.
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. John 6:62-63
 

Icyspark

Active member
the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,
and the tree of knowledge of good and evil
.


Who are the 2 Trees ??????


Hi Buzzard,

It seems to me that you are attempting to create symbolism where there is none? Perhaps that's why I'm not following your line of thought. Why don't you try to explain who you believe "the two Trees" are and how these undefined trees have anything to do with Scripture?

God bless!
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Hi Buzzard,

It seems to me that you are attempting to create symbolism where there is none? Perhaps that's why I'm not following your line of thought. Why don't you try to explain who you believe "the two Trees" are and how these undefined trees have anything to do with Scripture?

God bless!
Man Icy;
you don't know who the 2 Trees were

#1: The Tree of life
#2: The """" :devilish: OLIVE 😨"""

Ga. 4:21
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons,
the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh;
but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;
the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia,
and answereth to Jerusalem which now is,
and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free,
which is the mother of us all.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Icy;
Let me ask a question
what happens to the branches of a Native Olive Tree when a person grafts into it
Branches from a """Wild Olive""""""

now the tree brings forth 2-3-4 different kinds of Olives
some good and some not so good
Good Fruit and Evil Fruit off the same tree
---- BUT -----
eventually the wild branches will take over the tree
and the Native branches will die
 

Icyspark

Active member
Icy;
Let me ask a question
what happens to the branches of a Native Olive Tree when a person grafts into it Branches from a """Wild Olive""""""

---- BUT -----
eventually the wild branches will take over the tree and the Native branches will die


Hi Buzzard,

That's an interesting premise. Unfortunately Jesus disagrees with your creative thinking:

Romans 11:22-24
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

At what point does Jesus ever allow that these "natural branches" will be unable to "be grafted into their own olive tree"? You postulation that the wild branches overtake the tree is strictly your own idea which has no implicit relation to what the Bible clearly says. Why would you wish to outright disagree with the One you claim to follow?

I pray this helps.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Icy;
Why does the Church as a whole,
SDA included; bring forth Good Fruit's,
but also brings forth Evil fruit

In those 1st few years, thru the influence of the ECF's
steeped in all the customs and surmising's of the different "Cults"
scattered thru out the world at that time
a lot of, down right heresies were adopted into the Gospel

Matt.13
a certain woman took and mixed Leaven in Three (3) Measures of Meal
as Paul says
know ye not
a little Leaven spoiled the whole lump
-------------------


----------- The Words of Dat Dar False Teacher, Puffed up like a Loaf of "Leavened" Bread -----
Then answered :devilish: Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
(too Job)
For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age,
and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
10 Shall not they teach thee,
and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart
?

Legends, Fables, and Ole Wives Tales

brought in by the Gentiles, grafted in too the Olive
and the Wild branches bring forth the same evil fruit they did as before
 

Icyspark

Active member
Icy;
SNIP
Matt.13 a certain woman took and mixed Leaven in Three (3) Measures of Meal
as Paul says know ye not a little Leaven spoiled the whole lump [This is just a bizarre leap in "logic." I think this qualifies as a false teaching and displays a total disregard for what this passage of Scripture actually teaches. The rest of this misquoted text says, "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three[c]measures of meal till it was all leavened.” Thus, in one's rush to misuse Scripture for their own ends they condemn Jesus Christ! Talk about ":devilish: Bildad the Shuhite." SMH So apparently Jesus doesn't know what He's talking about and we should instead listen to an overt mishandling of Scripture? :oops: Um, no.]
-------------------


----------- The Words of Dat Dar False Teacher, Puffed up like a Loaf of "Leavened" Bread -----
Then answered :devilish: Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
(too Job)
For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age,
and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
10 Shall not they teach thee,
and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart
?

Legends, Fables, and Ole Wives Tales

brought in by the Gentiles, grafted in too the Olive
and the Wild branches bring forth the same evil fruit they did as before


Hi Buzzard,

It would probably be useful if people would acknowledge their own errors before attempting to find error in others. Above you asserted, "eventually the wild branches will take over the tree and the Native branches will die," but Jesus through His servant Paul says, "how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!" You appear to be making things up. Would you like to acknowledge your own error?

If someone makes things up do they then qualify as a false teacher?

Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still; teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.

I pray this helps.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member

A Tree and Its Fruit​

43 “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
44 Each tree is recognized by its own fruit.
People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
45 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart,
and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart.
For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
If someone makes things up do they then qualify as a false teacher?

Yep;
and the same awaits them at judgement
Teacher and Student

He also told them this parable:
Can the blind lead the blind?
Will they not both fall into a pit?
40 The student is not above the teacher,
but everyone who is fully trained
will be like their teacher.
:eek:
 

Icyspark

Active member
What is the purpose of the Tree of Life?


I may've missed it, but it appears that I never did see the full biblical purpose for the Tree of Life. So, let's take a look and see what the Bible says:

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

The title of this tree gives away its purpose--LIFE. In the verses above we're informed the reason why God specifically banished "man" from the Garden of Eden: "He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, AND LIVE FOREVER." The purpose for the tree then is apparently to provide eternal life!

Considering this fact in relation to the new creation we see that the Tree of Life will be restored to the new Earth.

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

The Bible is clear that only God is innately immortal. Speaking of God Paul writes that He "ALONE is immortal and lives in unapproachable light." No human has this innate immortality, nor will they ever. According to the Bible saved humanity will gain immortality in their being allowed once again to reach out their hands to take from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

I pray this helps.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Icy;
Scripture speaks of;;

#1: Life "Ever" lasting,
meaning life for the time appointed, as long they come up to Jerusalem
and Drink and Eat
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem,
coming down from God out of heaven,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
....
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life,
clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.​

clear as crystal, not the Muddied Waters being taught by a bunch of
Billy-Bob Merchant Men Protestant Preachers

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river,
was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits,
and yielded her fruit every month:
and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.​

Drink and Eat; and set at the feet of The Jews appointed to instruct them

And in their mouth was found no guile:
for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan,
which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;
behold,
I will make them to come and worship before thy feet,
and to know that I have loved thee.​

if they refuse to do so they will be
still subject to deception and deceit and the 2nd death


And I saw an angel come down from heaven,
having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent,
which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit,
and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,
that he should deceive the nations no more,
till the thousand years should be fulfilled:
and after that he must be loosed a little season.

And when the thousand years are expired,
Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations

#2: then there is life Eternal or Eternal Life
for The Servants of the kingdom
those not deceived the 2nd time
but still must remain Faithful to Christ
they are mentioned in The Words of the Wise Man

#3: then there is Immortality = not subject to Death
The Bride of Christ

the Harlots are The "Brides Maids" they do not go into the Bridal Chamber
Christ doesn't have a Harmen of many, just 1 Bride
 

Icyspark

Active member
Icy;
Scripture speaks of;;

#1: Life "Ever" lasting,
meaning life for the time appointed, as long they come up to Jerusalem
and Drink and Eat
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem,​
coming down from God out of heaven,​
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.​
....​
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life,​
clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.​

clear as crystal, not the Muddied Waters being taught by a bunch of
Billy-Bob Merchant Men Protestant Preachers

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river,​
was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits,​
and yielded her fruit every month:​
and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.​

Drink and Eat; and set at the feet of The Jews appointed to instruct them

And in their mouth was found no guile:​
for they are without fault before the throne of God.​
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan,​
which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;​
behold,​
I will make them to come and worship before thy feet,​
and to know that I have loved thee.​

if they refuse to do so they will be
still subject to deception and deceit and the 2nd death

And I saw an angel come down from heaven,​
having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.​
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent,​
which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,​
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit,​
and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,​
that he should deceive the nations no more,​
till the thousand years should be fulfilled:​
and after that he must be loosed a little season.​
And when the thousand years are expired,​
Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,​
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations​

#2: then there is life Eternal or Eternal Life
for The Servants of the kingdom
those not deceived the 2nd time
but still must remain Faithful to Christ
they are mentioned in The Words of the Wise Man

#3: then there is Immortality = not subject to Death
The Bride of Christ

the Harlots are The "Brides Maids" they do not go into the Bridal Chamber
Christ doesn't have a Harmen of many, just 1 Bride


Hi Buzzard,

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure none of this has anything to do with the tree of life or to anything specific that I posted. I don't think it qualifies as trolling, but it doesn't appear to have much relevance to the topic at hand. It's like confusion wrapped in a robe of distraction. 💍

My questions for you:
  1. In Genesis 3:22 does God equate eating from the tree of life with living forever?
  2. In Revelation 2:7 do you see that the redeemed are given the right to eat from the tree of life?
  3. Is it true that God ALONE is immortal?
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.​

Revelation 2:7
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

I pray this helps.
 

e v e

Super Member
I thought the SDA's were given the Messages of the Three Angels of John's Rev.
:unsure:
OH;
they weren't but their Gods tell them the were
😵


Icy;
When you wear the ""Ear Rings"" of the Gods of Egypt
placed on you by those that speak for the Gods of Egypt
all you have is;
"""ears to hear """ the Voice of those that speak for
the Egyptian Gods

And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow
every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food;


(and 2 other trees also)

the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,
and the tree of knowledge of good and evil
.


Who are the 2 Trees ??????
who is the right question.
 
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