Trinitarian confusion at Romans 9:5

cjab

Well-known member
Are you alive ? Is God alive ? Was the Logos alive before it became a human ? Ofcourse it is a valid question to ask. I need to see some substance from you.
I've given you substance. John 6:63. Jesus shows his association with the Logos. That association continues after his resurrection Rev 19:13. How can you make out that Jesus is other than the Logos become flesh (from scripture)? Do you have any alternative that stands up to scrutiny from scripture?
 

cjab

Well-known member
This is nonsense, more like.
In some respects yes, for the basic 'trinity' of Father, Son and Spirit isn't the Trinity of the Origenists and neo-platonists, so it's wrong for those (including me) who don't espouse the philosophical trinity to adopt the language of those who do.

Still even with the basic trinity of names and persons, one can construct a hierarchical economy per John 16:14 etc, and perhaps an ontological 'binity' of form (Greek morphe), possibily extending to the Holy Spirit also.
 

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
I've given you substance. John 6:63. Jesus shows his association with the Logos. That association continues after his resurrection Rev 19:13. How can you make out that Jesus is other than the Logos become flesh (from scripture)? Do you have any alternative that stands up to scrutiny from scripture?
Was the Logos alive before “he” became human ? Yes or No ?

You can’t weasel out of this one. The Bible speaks of God himself being alive: ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ Σίμων Πέτρος εἶπεν Σὺ εἶ ὁ Χριστὸς ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ Θεοῦ τοῦ ζῶντος.

So this is certainly a valid question.
 

cjab

Well-known member
Was the Logos alive before “he” became human ? Yes or No ?

You can’t weasel out of this one. The Bible speaks of God himself being alive: ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ Σίμων Πέτρος εἶπεν Σὺ εἶ ὁ Χριστὸς ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ Θεοῦ τοῦ ζῶντος.

So this is certainly a valid question.
ὥσπερ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ ἔχει ζωὴν ἐν ἑαυτῷ οὕτως καὶ τῷ υἱῷ ἔδωκεν ζωὴν ἔχειν ἐν ἑαυτῷ

Also consider that the Logos was ἐν ἀρχῇ and πρὸς τὸν θεόν: points you have yet to respond to or explain in any coherent manner.
 
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YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Was the Logos alive before “he” became human ? Yes or No ?

You can’t weasel out of this one. The Bible speaks of God himself being alive: ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ Σίμων Πέτρος εἶπεν Σὺ εἶ ὁ Χριστὸς ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ Θεοῦ τοῦ ζῶντος.

So this is certainly a valid question.
Logos Himself was with the Father, and was Himself also God!
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Jesus can be subordinate role, and yet also Himself being still fully God!
Yes just like a wife and husband . The wife in just as much human as her husband just different roles of functions within their relationship. It’s obviously a fallacious argument with Unitarians.
 

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
ὥσπερ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ ἔχει ζωὴν ἐν ἑαυτῷ οὕτως καὶ τῷ υἱῷ ἔδωκεν ζωὴν ἔχειν ἐν ἑαυτῷ

Also consider that the Logos was ἐν ἀρχῇ and πρὸς τὸν θεόν: points you have yet to respond to or explain in any coherent manner.
Is that a yes to the question I asked you ?
 

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
Yes just like a wife and husband . The wife in just as much human as her husband just different roles of functions within their relationship. It’s obviously a fallacious argument with Unitarians.
The wife & husband are two human beings. You folks are polytheists, pure & simple, no matter how many word games you play.
 

cjab

Well-known member
Is that a yes to the question I asked you ?
I'm not answering to your vision of an anthropomorphic Logos, which is a red herring. I only know a Spiritual Logos, the eternal revelator of the Father. May be it is in apprehending the concept of Spirit that your issue with Jesus being the eternal Logos lies.
 
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