You never addressed why you think of God as YHVH (third person singular form of I AM), yet relegate Jesus to just one of three persons. The Apostles simply thought of YHWH as Jesus and never called him a second person, God the Son, or one of three persons in the Godhead. You somehow thing YHWH is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit persons, but not simply Jesus as the Apostles quoted OT scriptures. Calling on the name of YHVH is equivalent to calling on Jesus for Peter and the Apostles.
Trinitarians have a pronoun problem
- Thread starter Andreas
- Start date
SteveB
Well-known member
Ok. I suppose I should say it this way.
I no longer find enjoyment in having these kinds of "discussions."
Especially when I'm told I missed a point, but you refuse to explain what the point actually was.
You're missing the connections between the name of YHVH and the name of Jesus as the Apostles taught us. To call upon Jesus is to call upon YHWH and there is simply no need for any other name but Jesus. Get it?
SteveB
Well-known member
The bible says he is.
It's a rather lengthy list of passages that deal with who YHVH is.
It's been dealt with numerous times before by numerous different people, including myself.
I suppose saying the same thing over and over and over and over......again gets old, especially when the readers clearly only want to argue, while claiming to want to discuss.
I'm not the author of the bible, and it was written in its entirety 1865 years before I was born.
As such, the problem you're having with it isn't going to be able to convince you that the bible is right, and I'm finding your games boorish.
SteveB
Well-known member
No. You want me to miss it.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Jesus in Thai - Phra yesū
Jesus in Maltese - Ġesù
Jesus in Divehi - Eesaagefaaneve
Jesus in Uzbek - Iso
Jesus in Vietnamese - chúa giêsu
Jesus in Central Kurdish - عیسا
Jesus in Goan Konkani - जेजूक
I am sure the Lord hears each one perfectly well knowing that they do know who and what He is in their hearts!
Yes indeed. Also, the NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is JESUS (Isaiah 9:6)
johnny guitar
Well-known member
Super muddled post.
johnny guitar
Well-known member
Isaiah 9:6 indicates NO such thing.
GeneZ
Well-known member
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6
Yes... It says that he will be called "Father." But, its not saying that He IS the Father.
You are missing an important doctrinal detail.
The Father is presently sitting back and allowing Jesus to reign over all creation as God. Reigning until Jesus finishes making his enemies of His humanity
into his footstool. In that sense? The Father is allowing Jesus to be as the 'Father' over all creation!
Jesus is reigning over all creation by proxy as the Father by means of His Deity empowering and enabling Him in all He does!
"Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father
after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until
he has put all his enemies under his feet." 1 Cor 15:24-25
See what that says?
When Jesus finalizes what is needed to finish his work? Then the Father Himself will return to being God over all!
The Father remains being the Father!
The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.”
Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does
not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this,
then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him,
so that God may be all in all." 1 Cor 15:26-28
So, for now? Jesus is to be called by those in His presence, 'Almighty Father."
For Jesus is now acting on behalf of the Father in all His power of Deity.
The Father is now watching and allowing His Son to do all the work as the Father!
grace and peace ..........
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Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
If it is all for a human context, then how is it that the plural pronouns are not used of God all the time when referring to all three of your supposed persons? You see, you really aren't making any sense here at all.
This is also hilarious given the fact that actually the whole Bible, the language and grammar in all is not given for a human context but rather for a divine one and which is why the original languages and their grammar cannot always prove what humans think that they will in support of their doctrines.
Your idea on this reminds me of the nonsense that Joel Osteen has everyone say at the beginning of his meetings, "this is my Bible, I am what it says I am and I have what it says I have" and as if the Bible is all about who we are and what we have and deserve rather than who God is and what he has and deserves to have.
For many times there are meanings meant to be understood spiritually underneath the surface of the original language and its grammar, so that they are not completely discernable by the original language and it's grammar.
Such is the case with Jesus' words in John 8:58 "truly I say unto you, before Abraham was I am", especially when we understand the context of where Jesus was coming from as a vision that Abraham had seen of his day (the day in which he was standing there with those leaders and teaching them God's truths in the present tense).
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GeneZ
Well-known member
Get in line....
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
Get in line with what? Are you saying that I need to get in line with the false doctrine of the Trinity and its adherents?
GeneZ
Well-known member
What does that really mean? You're not making sense.
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
Well, how am I to make sense out of what you said, "get in line", what are you talking about or what did you mean by "get in line"?
He's called the Father, but actually isn't. It is because he is acting on behalf of the Father? When does acting on the behalf of another person do that?
This is a good example of how the Trinity leads one to make inaccurate conclusions like "the Father is presently sitting back..."
Why not just accept what Isaiah 9:6 says?
Doesn't Jesus say that the Father would abide in the believer and that he would give his disciples the words to speak during times of persecution? How is that "sitting back"?
This goes to the bottom line where the doctrine of the Trinity absolutely falls apart and that is explaining how three persons abide in the believer.
We are in the time of grace when God is offering salvation to man via the redemption provided by his son because of his dying on the cross and resurrection. The Holy Spirit is God in action working upon and through mankind, so your picture of a Father person kicking back and allowing another person to do the work is not what 1 Cor 15:24-28 is saying.
GeneZ
Well-known member
The Father has put his glorified Son on display to reveal to all creation that the Lord is His equal in powers.
For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form
[completely expressing the divine essence of God]. Col 2:9 Amp.
Is the Father anymore than that?
In essence? The Son is God the Father being expressed as a man.
"Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:9
Those without discernment need to be told that many times....
OldShepherd
Well-known member
Repeating a false accusation does not prove it.
