Trinity 101

Oldsaint24

Active member
The doctrine of the trinity is really not that difficult to comprehend. Just look at yourself. You are a single individual, correct? Yet you are composed of more than one entity. Adam (and Eve) was created in the image and likeness of Elohim. Elohim , the one singular Living God, consists of three separate and distinct entities we have come to know and understand as the Father, the Logos (Son, Jesus), the Holy Spirit. Each distinct from the other and each with a will of His own. Likewise Elohim's created man consists of a body and soul and a spirit, each distinct from the other and each with a will of his own.

So, if you want to better understand the nature of God consider your makeup of body , soul and spirit. Is that so difficult?

The correlation is this....

God........................................................................man
Father...................................................................... spirit
Logos (Son,Jesus).................................................body
Holy Spirit...............................................................soul

One God..................................................................one man
 
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The doctrine of the trinity is really not that difficult to comprehend. Just look at yourself. You are a single individual, correct? Yet you are composed of more than one entity.
How are you defining "entity"?
Adam (and Eve) was created in the image and likeness of Elohim.
You do realize the words translated "image" and "likeness" refer to appearance, correct? (Compare Genesis 5:3: "And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image, and called his name Seth.)
Elohim , the one singular Living God, consists of three separate and distinct entities we have come to know and understand as the Father, the Logos (Son, Jesus), the Holy Spirit. Each distinct from the other and each with a will of His own. Likewise Elohim's created man consists of a body and soul and a spirit, each distinct from the other and each with a will of his own.
Neither of these statements have been shown to be Scriptural.
So, if you want to better understand the nature of God consider your makeup of body , soul and spirit. Is that so difficult?

The correlation is this....

God........................................................................man
Father...................................................................... spirit
Logos (Son,Jesus).................................................body
Holy Spirit...............................................................soul

One God..................................................................one man
Again, this "analogy" breaks down when we consider that the "soul" is the man.

When the spirit enters the man/soul, he becomes a "living soul" (NEPESH HAYYAH--Genesis 2:7).
On the other hand, when "his spirit goes out" (Psalm 146:4), he(--the man/soul) becomes a "dead soul" (NEPESH 'MET--Numbers 6:6).
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
How are you defining "entity"?

You do realize the words translated "image" and "likeness" refer to appearance, correct? (Compare Genesis 5:3: "And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image, and called his name Seth.)

Neither of these statements have been shown to be Scriptural.

Again, this "analogy" breaks down when we consider that the "soul" is the man.

When the spirit enters the man/soul, he becomes a "living soul" (NEPESH HAYYAH--Genesis 2:7).
On the other hand, when "his spirit goes out" (Psalm 146:4), he(--the man/soul) becomes a "dead soul" (NEPESH 'MET--Numbers 6:6).
Entity........being
Appearance is fine.
Soul has more than one definition. The non-physical part of man. Man as a whole. In other words Man is a soul (as you are defining). And man has a soul.
Again, until you realize the children of God consist of a spirit (small s) a soul and a body, each having a will of it's own...we probably will not agree on much.
All living creatures have a physical body and a soul. The addition of a spirit by God is what makes us special and makes us God's children.
 
The doctrine of the trinity is really not that difficult to comprehend. Just look at yourself. You are a single individual, correct? Yet you are composed of more than one entity. Adam (and Eve) was created in the image and likeness of Elohim. Elohim , the one singular Living God, consists of three separate and distinct entities we have come to know and understand as the Father, the Logos (Son, Jesus), the Holy Spirit. Each distinct from the other and each with a will of His own. Likewise Elohim's created man consists of a body and soul and a spirit, each distinct from the other and each with a will of his own.

So, if you want to better understand the nature of God consider your makeup of body , soul and spirit. Is that so difficult?

The correlation is this....

God........................................................................man
Father...................................................................... spirit
Logos (Son,Jesus).................................................body
Holy Spirit...............................................................soul

One God..................................................................one man
For me it has never been a problem with comprehension anyhow but rather with the many contradicting statements from Jesus himself and that I have never heard even one trinitarian explain without corrupting the words of Jesus to make them fit with the trinity doctrine.

By the way, we are one being and person of Body, Soul and Spirit and not three persons in one being.

Therefore, this really isn't a good argument to support the doctrine of the trinity but rather it works better for supporting that God is one single person and being also, being we are made in his image minus the body, for God is Spirit and doesn't have a body.


For starters here are four statements made by Jesus that contradict your idea that he is God and that God is a trinity.

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know You (Father) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".


John 5:26 "For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has given unto the Son to have life in himself also".


John 6:57 "For just as The Living Father has sent me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats of me shall live because of me".


Matthew 24:36 "But of the day and hour knows no man, not the angels, nor the Son but The Father Only".


Concerning Jesus' words in Matthew 24:36, here is what the Father Yahweh God himself said and notice that he is using his knowing the end from the beginning as the very proof unto Israel that he alone is God and no one else beside him.



Isaiah 46:9-10 New International Version

9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;

I am God, and there is no other;

I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,

from ancient times, what is still to come.

I say, ‘My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.’


As far as understanding the teaching itself, I have never had a problem with that and I was a trinitarian myself for better than thirty years of my conversion to God through Christ Jesus.

However, the reason why I am not longer a trinitarian, is because God wouldn't let me continue to excuse away with my human reasoning the many contradictions that I had begun to see in the scriptures after after maturing and acquiring a good memory and knowledge of the Bible for myself.
 
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How are you defining "entity"?

You do realize the words translated "image" and "likeness" refer to appearance, correct? (Compare Genesis 5:3: "And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image, and called his name Seth.)

Neither of these statements have been shown to be Scriptural.

Again, this "analogy" breaks down when we consider that the "soul" is the man.

When the spirit enters the man/soul, he becomes a "living soul" (NEPESH HAYYAH--Genesis 2:7).
On the other hand, when "his spirit goes out" (Psalm 146:4), he(--the man/soul) becomes a "dead soul" (NEPESH 'MET--Numbers 6:6).
Yes man is a living soul consisting of spirit and body and not the three part entity that trins say he is.

For soul in the scriptures always refers to the single living entity and it is also used in Genesis 1 to speak of the animals that God created and is translated often as "Living creatures".

In fact the Bible reveals that God himself is a living Soul, however not a created living Soul.

In Hebrews the writer says, "If any man draws back, my Soul shall have no pleasure in him".
 
Entity........being
You cannot express that these three are "separate and distinct beings" and then say these three are a "single being" Oldsaint24.
Appearance is fine.
Thus, there was no point to mentioning it.
Soul has more than one definition.
The non-physical part of man. Man as a whole. In other words Man is a soul (as you are defining). And man has a soul.
I don't think you understand how "soul" is used in Scripture.
Again, until you realize the children of God consist of a spirit (small s) a soul and a body, each having a will of it's own...we probably will not agree on much.
We wouldn't agree on this because such isn't true.
All living creatures have a physical body and a soul. The addition of a spirit by God is what makes us special and makes us God's children.
All creatures have a "spirit by God"--which is what makes them "living souls".

The only difference is that man has his spirit "breathed" directly into him (from God), while animals do not.
 

Stephen

Active member
So, if you want to better understand the nature of God consider your makeup of body , soul and spirit. Is that so difficult?

The correlation is this....

God........................................................................man
Father...................................................................... spirit
Logos (Son,Jesus).................................................body
Holy Spirit...............................................................soul

One God..................................................................one man

So the Trinity 101 is to teach that God is a single person as the modalists do and simply not be aware of the fact that it is what you are doing.
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
So the Trinity 101 is to teach that God is a single person as the modalists do and simply not be aware of the fact that it is what you are doing.
Do you realize that you a single person is a triune being? That is assuming you are in fact a child of God.
 

Stephen

Active member
Do you realize that you a single person is a triune being? That is assuming you are in fact a child of God.

I imagine alot more parts than three make up my single person, and that number is very dependent on the level of granularity you choose to count with.

However, as it relates to the doctrine of the trinity, is Jesus a triune being like me?

How about the other two? Does this make 9 persons in the trinity? Are each of the 9 persons, themselves triune making 27? (and so on . . . )
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
I imagine alot more parts than three make up my single person, and that number is very dependent on the level of granularity you choose to count with.

However, as it relates to the doctrine of the trinity, is Jesus a triune being like me?

How about the other two? Does this make 9 persons in the trinity? Are each of the 9 persons, themselves triune making 27? (and so on . . . )
The triune entities I am referring to are body, soul and spirit.
Assuming you are a regenerate child of God, Jesus was likewise triune. But the difference between Jesus and us.....The Logos took residence in a human body. Jesus was body and soul and Spirit. Was the only human being born perfect, ever. Whereas the children of men are born spiritually dead/void, body and soul only.
So, do you consist of a body, soul and spirit? Does each distinct entity have a will of it's own? What does your theology say?
 

Stephen

Active member
The triune entities I am referring to are body, soul and spirit.
Assuming you are a regenerate child of God, Jesus was likewise triune. But the difference between Jesus and us.....The Logos took residence in a human body. Jesus was body and soul and Spirit. Was the only human being born perfect, ever. Whereas the children of men are born spiritually dead/void, body and soul only.

So Jesus is triune with 3 wills inside of him. Doesn't that make the trinity at least 5 if Jesus counts for 3 plus the Father and Holy Spirit

So, do you consist of a body, soul and spirit? Does each distinct entity have a will of it's own? What does your theology say?

In order:
  • I consist of a body (Genesis 2:7). I am alive, and thus a soul (Genesis 2:7). I try to think spiritually.
  • I only have one will. I try to suppress it and do God's will as Jesus did. The war inside me consists of the struggle between my flesh, and my mind (Rom 7:23).
  • The bible says the above regardless of any theology I may hold.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
The doctrine of the trinity is really not that difficult to comprehend. Just look at yourself. You are a single individual, correct? Yet you are composed of more than one entity. Adam (and Eve) was created in the image and likeness of Elohim. Elohim , the one singular Living God, consists of three separate and distinct entities we have come to know and understand as the Father, the Logos (Son, Jesus), the Holy Spirit. Each distinct from the other and each with a will of His own. Likewise Elohim's created man consists of a body and soul and a spirit, each distinct from the other and each with a will of his own.

So, if you want to better understand the nature of God consider your makeup of body , soul and spirit. Is that so difficult?

The correlation is this....

God........................................................................man
Father...................................................................... spirit
Logos (Son,Jesus).................................................body
Holy Spirit...............................................................soul

One God..................................................................one man

Are you not aware that Modalism is heresy to Trinitarians?

Are you 3 persons?

Are you 3 HEs yet 1 HE?
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
So Jesus is triune with 3 wills inside of him. Doesn't that make the trinity at least 5 if Jesus counts for 3 plus the Father and Holy Spirit



In order:
  • I consist of a body (Genesis 2:7). I am alive, and thus a soul (Genesis 2:7). I try to think spiritually.
  • I only have one will. I try to suppress it and do God's will as Jesus did. The war inside me consists of the struggle between my flesh, and my mind (Rom 7:23).
  • The bible says the above regardless of any theology I may hold.
Jesus' Spirit is God (one of the three entities that make up Elohim), His soul and body only create a temporary temple in which to reside, until He fulfills the will of the Father and becomes the Lamb of God, the perfect sacrifice to satisfy God's demand for justice for sin. Realize this God had to come to earth to pay the ransom price for His children. NOTHING on earth was capable or suitable for the perfect, spotless sacrifice.
You ought to take some time and learn about yourself, that being body and soul and spirit. Paul concerned about the Thessalonians said, "I pray God, your WHOLE body and soul and spirit be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." And not realizing any of the three, the soul, the spirit and the body can sin keep one from being blameless.
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
Are you not aware that Modalism is heresy to Trinitarians?

Are you 3 persons?

Are you 3 HEs yet 1 HE?
I don't care about modalism or trinitarianism other than explaining the truth. I am a single being/human being consisting of a body that has a will of it's own, a soul that has a will of it's own and a spirit with a will of it's own. I am a triune being because I have been restored into the image and likeness of Elohim.
 

Stephen

Active member
Jesus' Spirit is God (one of the three entities that make up Elohim), His soul and body only create a temporary temple in which to reside, until He fulfills the will of the Father and becomes the Lamb of God, the perfect sacrifice to satisfy God's demand for justice for sin. Realize this God had to come to earth to pay the ransom price for His children. NOTHING on earth was capable or suitable for the perfect, spotless sacrifice.

Justice for sin is death. Jesus didn't pay that for us because we all die also.



You ought to take some time and learn about yourself, that being body and soul and spirit. Paul concerned about the Thessalonians said, "I pray God, your WHOLE body and soul and spirit be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." And not realizing any of the three, the soul, the spirit and the body can sin keep one from being blameless.

One verse theology isn't really my cup of tea. If it was a theme with extensive meat behind it in the 90% of the bible preceding 1 Thess 5:23 or in the 10% after it, then it might be a doctrine worth considering.
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
One verse theology isn't really my cup of tea. If it was a theme with extensive meat behind it in the 90% of the bible preceding 1 Thess 5:23 or in the 10% after it, then it might be a doctrine worth considering.
But it is so exquisitely beautiful and you want to reject such truth. Amazing. IF truth, biblical truth is denied so easily by you we really not much reason to dialogue.
 

Stephen

Active member
But it is so exquisitely beautiful and you want to reject such truth.

If it were truth, it would be all over the bible. The bible says Adam was the dust (Gen 2:7) and that Adam would return to the dust not that Adam's body would return to the dust and that 2 other Adams would be elsewhere.


Amazing. IF truth, biblical truth is denied so easily by you we really not much reason to dialogue.

If doctrines are invented out of thin air on the basis of one verse, and doggedly affirmed then almost any doctrine imaginable could be affirmed. For a doctrine of this magnitude, there would have to be a chapter in the bible explaining it.
 
Do you realize that you a single person is a triune being? That is assuming you are in fact a child of God.
That isn't even the truth Sir, for we are a spirit and a body which makes up our soul "living being", so we are not a triune being to start with and beside this, you cannot compare God's Divine nature with our human ontology, for our being made in God's image does not mean this at all.

What it means is that God has created into our being many of the same spiritual characteristics that he has in his own Divine being, like the ability to love and hate and to be merciful and just and the ability to forgive or judge and the ability to choose and have free will and many other things also.

It isn't referring to physical things but rather things that pertain to the human spiritual nature, that God has created in us from his own nature.
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
That isn't even the truth Sir, for we are a spirit and a body which makes up our soul "living being", so we are not a triune being to start with and beside this, you cannot compare God's Divine nature with our human ontology, for our being made in God's image does not mean this at all.

What it means is that God has created into our being many of the same spiritual characteristics that he has in his own Divine being, like the ability to love and hate and to be merciful and just and the ability to forgive or judge and the ability to choose and have free will and many other things also.

It isn't referring to physical things but rather things that pertain to the human spiritual nature, that God has created in us from his own nature.
If God's children would learn that they are triune beings it would help them live a more righteous life. Not realizing this divine truth is why many of God's children have no problem with the "little" sins that make them foolish and disobedient. Because the children are to love the Lord their God with their whole being, body and soul and spirit. Many do not love God is such a manner.
 
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