TRINITY SPOKE =JESUS CREATED MAN

[imJRR]

The term--ALL CREATION--proves its about the beginning creation. Men twist it it to fit dogmas.

LOL! Nope - You're totally wrong again, as usual. There is NOTHING AT ALL in the verse that speaks about "the beginning of creation" as you write. In order to get to your view, you have to first have that view in mind, and then VERY deliberately and VERY dishonestly read your view into the text in order to force, twist, and pervert the text to your already held view.

That your post so very openly does this is absolutely NO surprise at all whatsoever for anyone who has read your posts for any length of time.

So - What we have here is just more of "the usual" for your posts: You've already TOTALLY and PATHETICALLY failed with Prov. 8 by your own admission, and now you're trying to run away to something else....And you're TOTALLY and PATHETICALLY failing again. MORE than that: You are openly demonstrating that you intentionally, willfully, and deliberately twist and pervert the text.

 

[keiw]

LOL! Nope - You're wrong again, as usual. Christ is the subject and focus of the verses. Anyone with even a modicum of reading comprehension ability very, very easily sees this when vs. 15 is read HONESTLY. In view of that fact, if you REALLY want to HONESTLY talk about "refusal" (that is VERY deliberate), look no further than your very own posts - That's all they do. In view of that, I remind you of the old proverb:
Physician, heal THYSELF first.

What's been presented about the word "firstborn" in vs. 15 meaning "the highest ranking One; the Supreme One over all Creation - which makes Christ God - is accurate and true. And even the JW masters have admitted to the meaning of the term and how it's used.
And then - There are the other references that have been provided...which you totally avoid. Well, no surprise there.

All your post does is what your posts DO - Deny, deny. As usual, I'm VERY willing to let any honest and fair-minded reader decide for themselves between us regarding this.

Go right ahead, Nathan - Deny some more. It's what your posts do the best.

An image is NEVER the real thing.

 

[keiw]

LOL! Nope - You're totally wrong again, as usual. There is NOTHING AT ALL in the verse that speaks about "the beginning of creation" as you write. In order to get to your view, you have to first have that view in mind, and then VERY deliberately and VERY dishonestly read your view into the text in order to force, twist, and pervert the text to your already held view.

That your post so very openly does this is absolutely NO surprise at all whatsoever for anyone who has read your posts for any length of time.

So - What we have here is just more of "the usual" for your posts: You've already TOTALLY and PATHETICALLY failed with Prov. 8 by your own admission, and now you're trying to run away to something else....And you're TOTALLY and PATHETICALLY failing again. MORE than that: You are openly demonstrating that you intentionally, willfully, and deliberately twist and pervert the text.

Please tell us then when did all creation occur--In the beginning or when Jesus was born on earth?

 

[imJRR]

Please tell us then when did all creation occur--In the beginning or when Jesus was born on earth?

LOL! Your above post is nothing but running away.

Same is true for the one before that. You TOTALLY ran away from the meaning of "firstborn".

Just "the usual" for your posts.

 

[Fred]

An image is NEVER the real thing.

1. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: of Christ in relation to God, 2 Corinthians 4:4, "the image of God," i.e., essentially and absolutely the perfect expression and representation of the Archetype, God the Father; in Colossians 1:15, "the image of the invisible God" gives the additional thought suggested by the word "invisible," that Christ is the visible representation and manifestation of God to created beings; the likeness expressed in this manifestation is involved in the essential relations in the Godhead, and is therefore unique and perfect (Image)

Image - Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words -

1: εἰκών ► (Strong's #1504 Noun Feminine eikon i-kone' ) ;denotes 'an image;' the word involves the two ideas of representation and manifestation. 'The idea of perfection does not lie in the word itself, but must be sought from the

www.studylight.org

2. New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): In 2 Cor. 4:4 and Col. 1:15 Christ is said to be the image or likeness of God. There is no difference here between the image and the essence of the invisible God (2:288, Image, O. Flender).

3. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): When Christ is called the image of God in 2 C. 4:4; Col. 1:15, all the emphasis is on the equality of the eikōn with the original (2:395, eikōn, Kittel).

 

[imJRR]

Actually its you running because you cant answer truthfully.

LOL! Nope - You're wrong again, and here is why and how: The recorded posting history of this thread shows that my posts have answered truthfully every time I've posted - It is your posts that repeatedly continue to run away. I am VERY content to let any and all honest and fair-minded readers read the posts and decide between us on this.

 

[keiw]

LOL! Nope - You're wrong again, and here is why and how: The recorded posting history of this thread shows that my posts have answered truthfully every time I've posted - It is your posts that repeatedly continue to run away. I am VERY content to let any and all honest and fair-minded readers read the posts and decide between us on this.

You didn't answer what i asked you.

 

[imJRR]

LOL! That's because your question is deliberately dishonestly running away from what's been shown about the word "firstborn" to another part of the verse - and you don't even refer to that verse honestly or truthfully. Here is the proof:

We were discussing Col. 1:15.
We were discussing the term "firstborn" that is found in the verse.
The verse says that Christ is "the firstborn over all Creation."
You first tried to say that "firstborn" means "first-created".
You were shown and proven to be wrong. We can go over all the details of that again ANY time you like - I remind you again that your own JW masters agree with me that the term refers to primacy, pre-eminence, and supremacy.

You have now tried to foist the idea that the verse refers to "the beginning of creation".
You have been shown and proven to be wrong about that as well. Again - In order to get to your view, you have to first have that view in mind, and then VERY deliberately and VERY dishonestly read your view into the text in order to force, twist, and pervert the text to your already held view.

And now you are asking, "When did all creation occur--In the beginning or when Jesus was born on earth?" The question is TOTALLY irrelevant, and here is why and how that's true: It VERY DISHONESTLY and DELIBERATELY IGNORES what the verse SAYS: Christ is "the Firstborn" - the Primary, Highest-Ranking, Pre-eminent, Supreme One - OVER all Creation." There is ONLY ONE Supreme One over all Creation, and that is God.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify even more about this!


It is now time again for you to run away to something else.

 

[keiw]

LOL! That's because your question is deliberately dishonestly running away from what's been shown about the word "firstborn" to another part of the verse - and you don't even refer to that verse honestly or truthfully. Here is the proof:

We were discussing Col. 1:15.
We were discussing the term "firstborn" that is found in the verse.
The verse says that Christ is "the firstborn over all Creation."
You first tried to say that "firstborn" means "first-created".
You were shown and proven to be wrong. We can go over all the details of that again ANY time you like - I remind you again that your own JW masters agree with me that the term refers to primacy, pre-eminence, and supremacy.

You have now tried to foist the idea that the verse refers to "the beginning of creation".
You have been shown and proven to be wrong about that as well. Again - In order to get to your view, you have to first have that view in mind, and then VERY deliberately and VERY dishonestly read your view into the text in order to force, twist, and pervert the text to your already held view.

And now you are asking, "When did all creation occur--In the beginning or when Jesus was born on earth?" The question is TOTALLY irrelevant, and here is why and how that's true: It VERY DISHONESTLY and DELIBERATELY IGNORES what the verse SAYS: Christ is "the Firstborn" - the Primary, Highest-Ranking, Pre-eminent, Supreme One - OVER all Creation." There is ONLY ONE Supreme One over all Creation, and that is God.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify even more about this!


It is now time again for you to run away to something else.

Firstborn by men stating things to fit false dogmas is what you are being taught--The fact is--All creation occurred at the beginning -proving that statement refers to that beginning.

 

[imJRR]

LOL! Nope - You're wrong again. All you're doing in the first part of your post is making a mere assertion and nothing more than that.
You're also flat out NOT telling the truth about the verse. How the Apostle Paul used the word "firstborn" has already been shown. The verse says that Christ is the Supreme One OVER all Creation. There is NOTHING AT ALL of your idea of the statement referring to the beginning of Creation. Again - In order to get to your view, you have to first have that view in mind, and then VERY deliberately and VERY dishonestly read your view into the text in order to force, twist, and pervert the text to your already held view. This can be shown as many times as needed, and the ONLY thing your posts will do is what the above does - Make mere (and false) assertions and offer deliberate, dishonest perverting of the text. That is the posting history - YOUR posting history - for all to see for themselves.

 

[keiw]

LOL! Nope - You're wrong again. All you're doing in the first part of your post is making a mere assertion and nothing more than that.
You're also flat out NOT telling the truth about the verse. How the Apostle Paul used the word "firstborn" has already been shown. The verse says that Christ is the Supreme One OVER all Creation. There is NOTHING AT ALL of your idea of the statement referring to the beginning of Creation. Again - In order to get to your view, you have to first have that view in mind, and then VERY deliberately and VERY dishonestly read your view into the text in order to force, twist, and pervert the text to your already held view. This can be shown as many times as needed, and the ONLY thing your posts will do is what the above does - Make mere (and false) assertions and offer deliberate, dishonest perverting of the text. That is the posting history - YOUR posting history - for all to see for themselves.

All creation occurred at the beginning-Correct?

 

[imJRR]

LOL! Once again, keiw - You're not being honest or truthful with what the verse SAYS. This has already been dealt with in Post #170, and all you are doing in the above is running away from what's been shown.

 

[keiw]

LOL! Once again, keiw - You're not being honest or truthful with what the verse SAYS. This has already been dealt with in Post #170, and all you are doing in the above is running away from what's been shown.

100% fact--All creation occurred at the beginning. Men twisting it to fit dogmas does not make that fact go away.

 

[imJRR]

LOL! What's 100% fact is that all you're doing in your posts is deliberately not being honest or truthful with what the verse actually SAYS.
YOU are the one whose posts are deliberately attempting to twist and pervert the text; and this has already been shown by Posts #168 and #170.
You can deny what's been shown all you like, keiw - It means nothing. I have no problem at all showing anyone and everyone what the verse actually SAYS and your deliberate, dishonest twistings and perversions of it as many times as needed.

 

[keiw]

LOL! What's 100% fact is that all you're doing in your posts is deliberately not being honest or truthful with what the verse actually SAYS.
YOU are the one whose posts are deliberately attempting to twist and pervert the text; and this has already been shown by Posts #168 and #170.
You can deny what's been shown all you like, keiw - It means nothing. I have no problem at all showing anyone and everyone what the verse actually SAYS and your deliberate, dishonest twistings and perversions of it as many times as needed.

You will find out its you listening to error.

 

[imJRR]

LOL! Not from anything that YOU post! It has been shown that your posts have deliberately NOT been honest or truthful with what the verse actually SAYS in Posts #168 and 170. All you're doing in your post above is engaging in mere denial and nothing more.
Just "the usual" for one of your posts.

 

[keiw]

LOL! Not from anything that YOU post! It has been shown that your posts have deliberately NOT been honest or truthful with what the verse actually SAYS in Posts #168 and 170. All you're doing in your post above is engaging in mere denial and nothing more.
Just "the usual" for one of your posts.

Any one who can understand 3rd grade english, knows -ALL CREATION occurred at the beginning.

 

[imJRR]

LOL! The verse DOESN'T say what you're saying! It has already been shown that your posts have deliberately NOT been honest or truthful with what the verse actually SAYS in Posts #168 and 170. It's right here for any and all to see; and I have NO PROBLEM AT ALL in pointing this out as many times as is needed. The verse states that Christ is the Supreme One OVER all creation. What your posts are doing is trying to foist something that is NOTHING less and NOTHING other than a deliberate PERVERSION of what the verse actually SAYS. If anyone needs to go back to 3rd grade English class, or better yet - be HONEST about the verse - your own posts show that it's YOU.

 

[imJRR]

LOL! The ONLY thing you are doing in the above post is CONTINUING to run away from what the verses actually SAYS. And this is because you've been CAUGHT not being honest and truthful with what the verse says. The verse states that Christ is the Supreme One OVER all creation. That means Christ is God.

The above is just another form of you doing something your posts do very, VERY well - Running away.

 

[keiw]

LOL! The ONLY thing you are doing in the above post is CONTINUING to run away from what the verses actually SAYS. And this is because you've been CAUGHT not being honest and truthful with what the verse says. The verse states that Christ is the Supreme One OVER all creation. That means Christ is God.

The above is just another form of you doing something your posts do very, VERY well - Running away.

You have no answer to truth is your answer.