Trins, in 1 John 5:20, whose "Son" is "HIs Son" that John speaks of?

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.


So Trins whose Son is he?
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
The Son of God.

I think you misunderstood his question.

When he said “whose” Son is he, he is asking for the referent of “His”.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.


So Trins whose Son is he?

Would you like to change your answer to his question?

Perhaps you meant “God” or “God the Father” etc.
 
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Tanachreader

Well-known member
John calls him "him who is True" in the verse, so which person of your trinity is Jesus the son of then?

In other words, then who is "Him who is True" which person of your trinity John?
Who is true here.
Revelation 3:7
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Revelation 1:18
I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Who is true here.
Revelation 3:7
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Revelation 1:18
I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
How stupid, so then you believe that Jesus is "him who is True" and also the "His Son" or "The Son of Him who is True", is that what you believe dude.

You need to quit making up your own rules when you read the Bible, for just because Jesus is called "he that is true" in Revelation 3:7, it doesn't mean that in 1 John 5:20 John was speaking of Jesus and beside this it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense at all period.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
How stupid, so then you believe that Jesus is "him who is True" and also the "His Son" or "The Son of Him who is True", is that what you believe dude.

You need to quit making up your own rules when you read the Bible, for just because Jesus is called "he that is true" in Revelation 3:7, it doesn't mean that in 1 John 5:20 John was speaking of Jesus and beside this it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense at all period.
Jesus has always been true.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Jesus has always been true.
Get this and get it good.

John 17:3 "This is Eternal Life, that they might know you (He was praying to the Father) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".

Who did Jesus call "True" in the above verse TR?

So we see then, that the Father is also called true and Jesus is only true because God is dwelling within him in all of his fullness and God is True.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Get this and get it good.

John 17:3 "This is Eternal Life, that they might know you (He was praying to the Father) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".

Who did Jesus call "True" in the above verse TR?

So we see then, that the Father is also called true and Jesus is only true because God is dwelling within him in all of his fullness and God is True.
Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Word. He became truly man while remaining truly God. Jesus Christ is true God and true man.
John 1:1 says the Word was with God and the Word was God, the Word here refers to Jesus in reference to Revelation 19:13.

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men…while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
 
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Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Word. He became truly man while remaining truly God. Jesus Christ is true God and true man.
John 1:1 says the Word was with God and the Word was God, the Word here refers to Jesus in reference to Revelation 19:13.

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men…while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Sorry but your words do not agree with the words of Jesus or the words of John by the Holy Spirit either, for they agree and yours contradict.

John 17:3 "This is Eternal Life, that they might know you (he was praying to the Father) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".

1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.


John began with two referents "the Father as The True God and His Son who he identifies by the title of the Eternal life" and he finishes with the same two referents in 1 John 5:20 below and there is no way around it for you either.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God (The Father) and eternal life (His Son and as per 1 John 1:1-3 and John 17:3).

You might find a few verses that speak of Jesus being true but you will never find any that call him The True God, so you better fall upon the truth and be broken of your false doctrines now while you have the chance, otherwise the truth will fall upon you and grind you to powder.

By the way, you also better look up Titus 2:13 in the original, for it is not worded like your cherry picked translation words it, but rather like this below.

Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

So sorry, but Paul is by no means calling Jesus our Great God and Savior here but rather he is calling him "the glory of our Great God and Savior" and who will soon appear in the clouds at the end of the age.

Paul is saying the same thing here as he did in Colossians 1:15 when he called Jesus "the image of the invisible God" for God now manifests himself and his glory through Jesus Christ.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.


So Trins whose Son is he?
Christ is His actual son having
the same nature = Deity
and always has been

just as - analogy - your physical body =
same attributes (nature) of your physical father
though your body came to be by procreation
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Christ is His actual son having
the same nature = Deity
and always has been

just as - analogy - your physical body =
same attributes (nature) of your physical father
though your body came to be by procreation
Where from the scriptures is it ever stated that one called "The Son of God" had the same nature or essence as God?

You will not find it anywhere in the OT Jewish scriptures and in fact both David and Solomon were called by the title of "God's Son" and do you even know why they were?

It is because the term "Son of God" refers to the one who would inherit (as if they were a son by nature) the throne of God over the Kingdom of Israel and that is what it meant to be called "God's Son".

So where did the Jews get this idea that it was blasphemy for Jesus to call himself this, for their OT scriptures never revealed this to them, so who did?

You will find that answer from the words of Jesus himself in John 8 below.

John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”


Notice in the bold orange underlined above the real source of the beliefs about Jesus of the apostate Jews, it was the Devil and not their OT scriptures which are God's actual word and the Devil is a liar and a murderer and the Father of it.

Then notice what Jesus went on to say in the bold blue underlined and answer this question, from what source do we hear the word of God Eve?

Isn't from the actual scriptures themselves?

So then you need to answer this question, where are you getting what you believe, for I just showed you that this idea of yours that Jesus calling himself God's Son never meant that one called this was a real Son of God in the sense of essence or actual nature?


Notice, David was first call God's Son by God himself and as he himself declared the decree given unto him by God on this in Psalm 2:7 and then after him, Solomon David's anointed to the throne son was also called God's Son by God himself as well in 2 Samuel 7:14and again, these two men were anointed to inherit the throne of God over the Kingdom of Israel.

This is what God's word reveals about what it means to be called God's Son, but where are you getting what you believe about it, is it from the apostate Jews and what they falsely believed about it from their Father the Devil or the apostate churches of our day which also believe his lies?
 
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e v e 21

Well-known member
both David and Solomon were called by the title of "God's Son" and do you even know why they were?

yes

It is because the term "Son of God" refers to the one who would inherit (as if they were a son by nature) the throne of God over the Kingdom of Israel and that is what it meant to be called "God's Son".

that’s about us, not Jesus.
So where did the Jews get this idea that it was blasphemy for Jesus to call himself this, for their OT scriptures never revealed this to them, so who did?

those were pharisees who thought that, not His people.

47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”


<snip>

Then notice what Jesus went on to say in the bold blue underlined and answer this question, from what source do with hear the word of God Eve?
you didn’t understand the blue.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Good I am glad you can admit at least that much
that’s about us, not Jesus.

That is false, for Jesus was the promised Son of David unto which the full prophecy of Psalm 2 was given and would be fulfilled.

Again, if you believe otherwise, where in the scripture are you getting what you believe from?

For like I have already shown, there is nothing in the OT scriptures to support your idea that for Jesus to be called God's Son actually means that he is a literal Son of the same essence and nature of God.

You have to show it from the actual scriptures Eve, otherwise you are listening to the lies of the Devil about Jesus and just like the apostate Jews were also.
those were pharisees who thought that, not His people.

Yes, but where are you getting this idea of yours that by calling himself God's Son, that Jesus was claiming to have the same nature and essence as God himself, for like I said and can prove also, the OT scriptures never revealed any such thing about one being called God's Son, so where are you getting this from?

Not the Bible and that is for certain Eve.
you didn’t understand the blue.
To the contrary it is apparently you who do not understand it, for we hear God's word from the actual scripture and not from what flesh and blood reveals.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Sorry but your words do not agree with the words of Jesus or the words of John by the Holy Spirit either, for they agree and yours contradict.

John 17:3 "This is Eternal Life, that they might know you (he was praying to the Father) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".

1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.


John began with two referents "the Father as The True God and His Son who he identifies by the title of the Eternal life" and he finishes with the same two referents in 1 John 5:20 below and there is no way around it for you either.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God (The Father) and eternal life (His Son and as per 1 John 1:1-3 and John 17:3).

You might find a few verses that speak of Jesus being true but you will never find any that call him The True God, so you better fall upon the truth and be broken of your false doctrines now while you have the chance, otherwise the truth will fall upon you and grind you to powder.

By the way, you also better look up Titus 2:13 in the original, for it is not worded like your cherry picked translation words it, but rather like this below.

Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

So sorry, but Paul is by no means calling Jesus our Great God and Savior here but rather he is calling him "the glory of our Great God and Savior" and who will soon appear in the clouds at the end of the age.

Paul is saying the same thing here as he did in Colossians 1:15 when he called Jesus "the image of the invisible God" for God now manifests himself and his glory through Jesus Christ.
Doesn’t really matter who you think Jesus is or His pre-existence.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

I believe exactly what Jesus said !!!

Whereas some on this forum believe Jesus said...

he that hath seen my character traits hath seen some of the character traits of the Father
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Doesn’t really matter who you think Jesus is or His pre-existence.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
And in verse 10 which you ignore and which is the very context, Jesus very clearly explained why when they saw him the saw the Father and he also explained that he was speaking on behalf of the Father and not himself when he said "have I been so long with you and yet you still don't know me"?.

John 14:10 "The words that I speak unto you, I speak not for myself but it is the Father who dwells within me, he is doing the works".


Very clearly therefore, Jesus made it very clear that it was God dwelling him and manifesting himself through Jesus, that was the reason why when they saw Jesus they also saw the Father and he also revealed that it was the words of the Father when Jesus said "have I been so long with you and yet you still don't know me".


So you better get busy loosing that ignorance that you are eaten up with TR.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
And in verse 10 which you ignore and which is the very context, Jesus very clearly explained why when they saw him the saw the Father and he also explained that he was speaking on behalf of the Father and not himself when he said "have I been so long with you and yet you still don't know me"?.

John 14:10 "The words that I speak unto you, I speak not for myself but it is the Father who dwells within me, he is doing the works".


Very clearly therefore, Jesus made it very clear that it was God dwelling him and manifesting himself through Jesus, that was the reason why when they saw Jesus they also saw the Father and he also revealed that it was the words of the Father when Jesus said "have I been so long with you and yet you still don't know me".


So you better get busy loosing that ignorance that you are eaten up with TR.
Seeing The Son IS seeing The Father.
And ONLY The Son can say that.
 
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