Trins, in 1 John 5:20, whose "Son" is "HIs Son" that John speaks of?

Tanachreader

Well-known member
And in verse 10 which you ignore and which is the very context, Jesus very clearly explained why when they saw him the saw the Father and he also explained that he was speaking on behalf of the Father and not himself when he said "have I been so long with you and yet you still don't know me"?.

John 14:10 "The words that I speak unto you, I speak not for myself but it is the Father who dwells within me, he is doing the works".


Very clearly therefore, Jesus made it very clear that it was God dwelling him and manifesting himself through Jesus, that was the reason why when they saw Jesus they also saw the Father and he also revealed that it was the words of the Father when Jesus said "have I been so long with you and yet you still don't know me".


So you better get busy loosing that ignorance that you are eaten up with TR.
As JG said:
Seeing The Son IS seeing The Father.
And ONLY The Son can say that.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Already explained your error here but who is JG?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

You are not an apostle so I will stick with John who declared who the Word is.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

You are not an apostle so I will stick with John who declared who the Word is.
Yep what God thinks and says reveals who he truly is and thus the Word was God indeed.

Actually there is a verse that says this about men also "for as a man thinks in his heart, so he is".
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

You are not an apostle so I will stick with John who declared who the Word is.

Concerning your bolded "was in the beginning with "pros" God, here is what the one who began the fabrication of your false doctrine says about that, for even Tertullian understood what the words "was pros (towards) God" was meaning from the original language, it is just too bad for him and those who listened to him that he twisted what God revealed to him to fabricate your false doctrine.

Here read it for yourself below.


p>In Greek, "Word" is Logos, and it carries a much wider meaning than "word" does. It's the word from which we get "logic." The early churches were almost as prone to translating it "reason" as they were to translating it "word."

Here's Tertullian's very interesting explanation of what logos is:

Observe, then, that when you are silently conversing with "pros" yourself, this very process is carried on within you by your reason, which meets you with a word at every movement of your thought … Whatever you think, there is a word … You must speak it in your mind …
Thus, in a certain sense, the word is a second person within you, through which in thinking you utter speech … The word is itself a different thing from yourself. Now how much more fully is all this transacted in God, whose image and likeness you are? (Against Praxeas 5)
Logos is that voice you hear inside yourself when you are thinking. At least, that's a rough estimation of what logos means. Tertullian goes out of his way to describe it as "a second person within you" because he's bringing up the Logos of God as a second Person of the Trinity.

God, according to the early churches, has always had logos inside of him.
 
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Tanachreader

Well-known member
So was Joshua's name Yeshua and many other Israelites as well, so how do you think that helps you?
Are you serious, would you prefer Emmanuel.
How about

And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Are you serious, would you prefer Emmanuel.
How about

And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
LOL, the fact is, the very context of the prophecy of Immanuel in Isaiah 7 reveals that it had two fulfillments, the first being through Isaiah's son and his birth and name was a sign and message to Judah and Jerusalem that the two Kings who were plotting against them as per the beginning of the chapter would not succeed because "GOD WAS WITH THE PEOPLE OF JUDAH AND JERUSALEM".

Of course this also had a fulfillment in the birth of Jesus, for God was with us through Jesus being he would die for our sins to bring us back to God from our sins.

Do you want proof of this, then read on in chapter 8 verse 10, here I will even post it for you.

Notice also the subtitle from the NIV translators, for even they saw this to be the truth about this prophecy.



Isaiah 8​

New International Version​

Isaiah and His Children as Signs​

8 The Lord said to me, “Take a large scroll and write on it with an ordinary pen: Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz.”[a] 2 So I called in Uriah the priest and Zechariah son of Jeberekiah as reliable witnesses for me. 3 Then I made love to the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. And the Lord said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz. 4 For before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”
5 The Lord spoke to me again:
6 “Because this people has rejected
the gently flowing waters of Shiloah
and rejoices over Rezin
and the son of Remaliah,
7 therefore the Lord is about to bring against them
the mighty floodwaters of the Euphrates—
the king of Assyria with all his pomp.
It will overflow all its channels,
run over all its banks
8 and sweep on into Judah, swirling over it,
passing through it and reaching up to the neck.
Its outspread wings will cover the breadth of your land,
Immanuel!”
9 Raise the war cry, you nations, and be shattered!
Listen, all you distant lands.
Prepare for battle, and be shattered!
Prepare for battle, and be shattered!
10 Devise your strategy, but it will be thwarted;
propose your plan, but it will not stand,
for God is with us (el immanu = God is with us).
 
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Tanachreader

Well-known member
LOL, the fact is, the very context of the prophecy of Immanuel in Isaiah 7 reveals that it had two fulfillments, the first being through Isaiah's son and his birth and name was a sign and message to Judah and Jerusalem that the two Kings who were plotting against them as per the beginning of the chapter would not succeed because "GOD WAS WITH THE PEOPLE OF JUDAH AND JERUSALEM".

Of course this also had a fulfillment in the birth of Jesus, for God was with us through Jesus being he would die for our sins to bring us back to God from our sins.

Do you want proof of this, then read on in chapter 8 verse 10, here I will even post it for you.

Notice also the subtitle from the NIV translators, for even they saw this to be the truth about this prophecy.



Isaiah 8​

New International Version​

Isaiah and His Children as Signs​

8 The Lord said to me, “Take a large scroll and write on it with an ordinary pen: Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz.”[a] 2 So I called in Uriah the priest and Zechariah son of Jeberekiah as reliable witnesses for me. 3 Then I made love to the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. And the Lord said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz. 4 For before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”
5 The Lord spoke to me again:
6 “Because this people has rejected
the gently flowing waters of Shiloah
and rejoices over Rezin
and the son of Remaliah,
7 therefore the Lord is about to bring against them
the mighty floodwaters of the Euphrates—
the king of Assyria with all his pomp.
It will overflow all its channels,
run over all its banks
8 and sweep on into Judah, swirling over it,
passing through it and reaching up to the neck.
Its outspread wings will cover the breadth of your land,
Immanuel!”
9 Raise the war cry, you nations, and be shattered!
Listen, all you distant lands.
Prepare for battle, and be shattered!
Prepare for battle, and be shattered!
10 Devise your strategy, but it will be thwarted;
propose your plan, but it will not stand,
for God is with us (el immanu = God is with us).
Actually the preincarnate Jesus was Isaiah’s Lord. Read Isaiah 6
As for Emmanuel
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
LOL, the fact is, the very context of the prophecy of Immanuel in Isaiah 7 reveals that it had two fulfillments, the first being through Isaiah's son and his birth and name was a sign and message to Judah and Jerusalem that the two Kings who were plotting against them as per the beginning of the chapter would not succeed because "GOD WAS WITH THE PEOPLE OF JUDAH AND JERUSALEM".

Of course this also had a fulfillment in the birth of Jesus, for God was with us through Jesus being he would die for our sins to bring us back to God from our sins.

Do you want proof of this, then read on in chapter 8 verse 10, here I will even post it for you.

Notice also the subtitle from the NIV translators, for even they saw this to be the truth about this prophecy.



Isaiah 8​

New International Version​

Isaiah and His Children as Signs​

8 The Lord said to me, “Take a large scroll and write on it with an ordinary pen: Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz.”[a] 2 So I called in Uriah the priest and Zechariah son of Jeberekiah as reliable witnesses for me. 3 Then I made love to the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. And the Lord said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz. 4 For before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”
5 The Lord spoke to me again:
6 “Because this people has rejected
the gently flowing waters of Shiloah
and rejoices over Rezin
and the son of Remaliah,
7 therefore the Lord is about to bring against them
the mighty floodwaters of the Euphrates—
the king of Assyria with all his pomp.
It will overflow all its channels,
run over all its banks
8 and sweep on into Judah, swirling over it,
passing through it and reaching up to the neck.
Its outspread wings will cover the breadth of your land,
Immanuel!”
9 Raise the war cry, you nations, and be shattered!
Listen, all you distant lands.
Prepare for battle, and be shattered!
Prepare for battle, and be shattered!
10 Devise your strategy, but it will be thwarted;
propose your plan, but it will not stand,
for God is with us (el immanu = God is with us).
Isaiah's Son was NEVER called Emmanuel nor was he born of a virgin.
The only recorded fulfillment of 7:14 is Matthew 1:23, Jesus Christ God WITH US.
Case closed.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Actually the preincarnate Jesus was Isaiah’s Lord. Read Isaiah 6
As for Emmanuel
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
As I have explained on this forum over and over again, the Hebrew word used and translated as "virgin" can mean either a young maiden like Isaiah's wife or a real virgin and therefore it fits with both Isaiah's son and also Jesus.

Nevertheless, the fact that the birth and name Immanuel was a sign and message for that particular time in which the prophecy was given first, proves that it doesn't mean that Jesus was God any more than Isaiah's son was either and who was first given that name.

All that it means is that through Jesus God is with us because it is through Jesus that we are drawn near unto God and saved from our sin.


You trins just don't want to be honest about passages when someone reveals that they cannot mean what you want them to mean and that is why I cannot respect anything you say either, for dishonesty does not come from God and Christ but rather from the Devil and his darkness.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
As I have explained on this forum over and over again, the Hebrew word used and translated as "virgin" can mean either a young maiden like Isaiah's wife or a real virgin and therefore it fits with both Isaiah's son and also Jesus.

Nevertheless, the fact that the birth and name Immanuel was a sign and message for that particular time in which the prophecy was given first, proves that it doesn't mean that Jesus was God any more than Isaiah's son was either and who was first given that name.

All that it means is that through Jesus God is with us because it is through Jesus that we are drawn near unto God and saved from our sin.


You trins just don't want to be honest about passages when someone reveals that they cannot mean what you want them to mean and that is why I cannot respect anything you say either, for dishonesty does not come from God and Christ but rather from the Devil and his darkness.
The sign was for the house of Israel, NOT for a particular individual.
And NO passage in Isaiah says his son was given the name Immanuel.
Jesus ALONE is called Emmanuel
 
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