True non canonical prophet

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
AV Ro 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

So you will deny being a spiritual Jew then ???

Yours in Christ(a Jew), Michael
Yes, as I am a saved and spiritual Gentile!
 

Icyspark

Active member
The revelation from and of God was full and complete with the inspired scriptures!
Are you saying Ellen White wrote inspired books?


Hi YeshuaFan,

See? Just more opinion. Your opinion isn't authoritative when it comes to understanding Scripture. Show me any text which says anything you are suggesting above. You can't so you won't.


Are you saying Ellen White wrote inspired books?


Yes, Ellen White was a prophet and her writings are inspired. Based on your random, unscriptural assertions and apparent belief that your opinions are authoritative then you must likewise accept my assertion here as equally valid and authoritative.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 

Icyspark

Active member
Jesus already judged the teachings of Ellen White as being abominations! [👈 Your opinion]


Hi YeshuaFan,

Jesus already judged the teachings of Ellen White as being authoritative and inspired! [👈 My opinion]

So what do you propose should be the tie breaker?

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Hi YeshuaFan,

See? Just more opinion. Your opinion isn't authoritative when it comes to understanding Scripture. Show me any text which says anything you are suggesting above. You can't so you won't.





Yes, Ellen White was a prophet and her writings are inspired. Based on your random, unscriptural assertions and apparent belief that your opinions are authoritative then you must likewise accept my assertion here as equally valid and authoritative.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
There is no Bible scriptures to support any being inspired after John passed, and I am certain Ellen White was a false prophetess!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Hi YeshuaFan,

Jesus already judged the teachings of Ellen White as being authoritative and inspired! [👈 My opinion]

So what do you propose should be the tie breaker?

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
She denied cardinal truths of the scriptures, was deceived by satan, thru her "angel"
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
She denied cardinal truths of the scriptures, was deceived by satan, thru her "angel"
That is your opinion to state at this present time, in GOD's free will choice benefits.

If you are found to be not a true witness, then Jesus' judgment is sure and eternal !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Icyspark

Active member
There is no Bible scriptures to support any being inspired after John passed, and I am certain Ellen White was a false prophetess!


This is just more self-inflated opinion. You are overtly rejecting Scripture in your zeal to maintain that "there is no Bible scriptures..."

The Bible says, "God has placed in the church ... prophets." Your misguided claims to the contrary, that's what the Bible SAYS. Furthermore it says, "eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, ESPECIALLY prophecy." Again, your claims are made in a vacuum of your own predetermined outcome. NOTHING in the Bible says that this "gift of the Spirit" will only be available until the death of John. Those who make this claim are actually elevating their own personal beliefs to a level of themselves being what they disclaim (i.e. a prophet!). Why do you elevate your own opinion above the very Words of God to His servants? It's really quite brazen.

Your certainty that "Ellen White was a false prophet" is negated by the fact that you are looking to your own finite and fallible opinion to validate a predetermined belief. If you can't embrace the fact that prophecy is a spiritual gift left for "the church" then your beliefs are bound to take you in a downward spiral of error begetting error.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 

pythons

Active member
More opinion.
  • Show me in the Bible where this premise is even remotely hinted at. You can't so you won't.
  • I'd even be willing to see where you find this premise promoted in the writings of any popes. I'm surmising you're just making stuff up as you go.
How is it you're willing to elevate the words of a fallible pope to the authority of my infallible God with no biblical authorization for such fantasy?

The Bible says that the gift of prophecy is left for the church. It never says that this gift has a "use by" date on it. For you to lovingly embrace your pope with zero biblical support and reject the gift of prophecy--which is full of biblical support--doesn't bode well for the choice of which path you're taking.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Well, you surmised wrong:




Prophecy in Scripture NEVER creates Doctrines or mutates existing Doctrine....
...Prophecy in Scripture calls people back to God / correct Doctrine.

Ellen White
At that time one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon ME, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays.--Gospel Works, p. 302. {3SM 32.1}"


Ellen White explicitly stated that SHE had the gift of prophecy and that as a Prophet SHE was given the power to DEFINE DOCTRINE!
...This is as alien to the teaching of Scripture as it's alien to the principles of the Protestant Reformation.
...I'm telling you what Ellen Claimed as the mechanism for defining Doctrine is ANTITHETICAL.
...To Reformation Theology.

Understand, I'm not calling out SDA's categorical rejection of Sola Scriptura as a Doctrine as I agree with rejecting it....
...What I'm doing is calling out Adventist misrepresentations that they ADHERE to Sola Scriptura when they clearly don't.
...That's what I'm doing here.
 

Icyspark

Active member
Well, you surmised wrong:




Prophecy in Scripture NEVER creates Doctrines or mutates existing Doctrine....
...Prophecy in Scripture calls people back to God / correct Doctrine.


Well, great. You personally didn't make it up, but it's not biblical. That means it's pretty much the same as if you made it up.


Prophecy in Scripture NEVER creates Doctrines or mutates existing Doctrine....
...Prophecy in Scripture calls people back to God / correct Doctrine.


Something about this premise smells fishy.


Ellen White
At that time one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon ME, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays.--Gospel Works, p. 302. {3SM 32.1}"


Ellen White explicitly stated that SHE had the gift of prophecy and that as a Prophet SHE was given the power to DEFINE DOCTRINE!
...This is as alien to the teaching of Scripture as it's alien to the principles of the Protestant Reformation.
...I'm telling you what Ellen Claimed as the mechanism for defining Doctrine is ANTITHETICAL.
...To Reformation Theology.

Understand, I'm not calling out SDA's categorical rejection of Sola Scriptura as a Doctrine as I agree with rejecting it....
...What I'm doing is calling out Adventist misrepresentations that they ADHERE to Sola Scriptura when they clearly don't.
...That's what I'm doing here.


Yes, Ellen White said she had the gift of prophecy. No, she didn't "define doctrine." All Adventist doctrine is based on the Bible and that's why you never see anyone defending our doctrine based on what Ellen White said (unlike Catholics who appeal to their tradition to validate their extra biblical beliefs).

If you would pay attention to your own quote you'd see that the context indicates that the circumstance in question was how to correctly interpret "new doctrines" being "brought in" by "ministers and doctors." Those involved in this situation searched the Scriptures "with much prayer." Sometimes they would spend "whole nights ... devoted to searching the Scriptures." When was the last time you devoted a whole night to "searching the Scriptures"? Since the Roman Catholic Church devalues the Scriptures in favor of elevating its own contraflictory traditions then it's not likely that any emphasis is placed on reading the Scriptures. Wasn't it the RCC that forbade the translation of the Scripture so that the common person could read it for themselves? Um, yeah. After all if the people could read the Scriptures for themselves then they would see the heresy that the RCC was teaching and a reformation would likely take place. Oh wait ...

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 

pythons

Active member
Icyspark said: Well, great. You personally didn't make it up, but it's not biblical. That means it's pretty much the same as if you made it up.

It's very Biblical Icy. There was a God ordained religious authority in the Old Testament and Jesus Himself acknowledged this.

Matthew 23:
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers
.

Jesus' rebuke wasn't that the Scribes and Pharisees didn't have binding and loosing authority...
...Jesus' point was THAT THEY DID - it was just that they didn't practice what they preached.
...Do as they say BUT don't do as they do.

It would be foolish to deny Jesus didn't use the same language to describe the authority His Church would have...
...The Apostles eventually died and those who the Apostles laid hands on continued the work. The Church didn't die.
...This same Church determined what the Canon was - the Canon was CLOSED out.

Around 1800 years after the close of the Canon a young woman appears on the scene in the eastern United States...
...She joins forces with a small group of Anti-Trinitarians who are trying to, by golly, start their own Church.
....Ellen defines the Doctrines these anti-Trinitarians fabricate and bring to the Table - she says God's power is the cause.
....Come on Icy!

Icyspark said: Yes, Ellen White said she had the gift of prophecy. No, she didn't "define doctrine." All Adventist doctrine is based on the Bible and that's why you never see anyone defending our doctrine based on what Ellen White said (unlike Catholics who appeal to their tradition to validate their extra biblical beliefs).

Ellen said SHE defined SDA distinctive Doctrines because the power of God came into her and ENABLED her to do this.

Ellen White
At that time one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon ME, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays.--Gospel Works, p. 302. {3SM 32.1}"

So, contrary to what you say Ellen White said the reason you have the Distinctive Doctrine you do....
....Is because ELLEN DEFINED THEM AS TRUTH because companies of devoted men and women reading the Bible.
....COULDN'T CONFIDENTLY CONCLUDE the Doctrines were right.

So much for "BIBLE ONLY" - LOL!

You ever wonder why the Catholic's, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, etc. etc. etc....
....All claim the Bible doesn't say about the Sabbath and Investigative Judgement that you do?
....It's BECAUSE Ellen White didn't DEFINE those Doctrines as Truth for those other Churches.

It's pretty simple - Ellen White DEFINES a distinctive SDA Doctrine to be TRUTH....
...NOW, Scripture HAS TO BEND ITSELF TO support Ellen's definition.
...It's that simple.

IcySpark: f you would pay attention to your own quote you'd see that the context indicates that the circumstance in question was how to correctly interpret "new doctrines" being "brought in" by "ministers and doctors." Those involved in this situation searched the Scriptures "with much prayer." Sometimes they would spend "whole nights ... devoted to searching the Scriptures." When was the last time you devoted a whole night to "searching the Scriptures"? Since the Roman Catholic Church devalues the Scriptures in favor of elevating its own contraflictory traditions then it's not likely that any emphasis is placed on reading the Scriptures. Wasn't it the RCC that forbade the translation of the Scripture so that the common person could read it for themselves? Um, yeah. After all if the people could read the Scriptures for themselves then they would see the heresy that the RCC was teaching and a reformation would likely take place. Oh wait ...

You've missed what your prophet actually said. Here is the context.

William Miller has disbanded his group - everyone who had a church to go back to WENT BACK...
...The folks who DIDN'T have a Church to go back to unified in their hatred of the Trinity Doctrine.
...These folks started to study the Bible - they were trying to BRING IN DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES.

After whole nights spent reading the Bible and praying to God for guidance they were at a stand still...
...Suddenly the power of God would come into Ellen AND suddenly SHE.
....Was enabled to DEFINE DOCTRINE - truth from error.

"As The Points Of Our Faith Were THUS established".

That doesn't look like the SDA Distinctive Doctrines were established by Scripture ALONE...
...Why would solid Biblical doctrines require the aid of circus side show acts?
...They wouldn't.

 
It's very Biblical Icy. There was a God ordained religious authority in the Old Testament and Jesus Himself acknowledged this.

Matthew 23:
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers
.

Jesus' rebuke wasn't that the Scribes and Pharisees didn't have binding and loosing authority...
...Jesus' point was THAT THEY DID - it was just that they didn't practice what they preached.
...Do as they say BUT don't do as they do.

It would be foolish to deny Jesus didn't use the same language to describe the authority His Church would have...
...The Apostles eventually died and those who the Apostles laid hands on continued the work. The Church didn't die.
...This same Church determined what the Canon was - the Canon was CLOSED out.

Around 1800 years after the close of the Canon a young woman appears on the scene in the eastern United States...
...She joins forces with a small group of Anti-Trinitarians who are trying to, by golly, start their own Church.
....Ellen defines the Doctrines these anti-Trinitarians fabricate and bring to the Table - she says God's power is the cause.
....Come on Icy!



Ellen said SHE defined SDA distinctive Doctrines because the power of God came into her and ENABLED her to do this.

Ellen White
At that time one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon ME, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays.--Gospel Works, p. 302. {3SM 32.1}"

So, contrary to what you say Ellen White said the reason you have the Distinctive Doctrine you do....
....Is because ELLEN DEFINED THEM AS TRUTH because companies of devoted men and women reading the Bible.
....COULDN'T CONFIDENTLY CONCLUDE the Doctrines were right.

So much for "BIBLE ONLY" - LOL!

You ever wonder why the Catholic's, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, etc. etc. etc....
....All claim the Bible doesn't say about the Sabbath and Investigative Judgement that you do?
....It's BECAUSE Ellen White didn't DEFINE those Doctrines as Truth for those other Churches.

It's pretty simple - Ellen White DEFINES a distinctive SDA Doctrine to be TRUTH....
...NOW, Scripture HAS TO BEND ITSELF TO support Ellen's definition.
...It's that simple.



You've missed what your prophet actually said. Here is the context.

William Miller has disbanded his group - everyone who had a church to go back to WENT BACK...
...The folks who DIDN'T have a Church to go back to unified in their hatred of the Trinity Doctrine.
...These folks started to study the Bible - they were trying to BRING IN DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES.

After whole nights spent reading the Bible and praying to God for guidance they were at a stand still...
...Suddenly the power of God would come into Ellen AND suddenly SHE.
....Was enabled to DEFINE DOCTRINE - truth from error.

"As The Points Of Our Faith Were THUS established".

That doesn't look like the SDA Distinctive Doctrines were established by Scripture ALONE...
...Why would solid Biblical doctrines require the aid of circus side show acts?
...They wouldn't.

Yes, Ellen was enabled to define what is truth and what is error.

That is why our sda sabbath school members ask “what did Ellen say about that” when discussing bible topics in sabbath school classes.

That truth is what enabled our General Conference session to vote in favor of the statement of confidence in 2015 that voiced the policy that Ellen’s interpretations are the normative character of scripture

“On the centennial of her death, we rejoice that her writings have been made available around the globe in many languages, and in a variety of printed and electronic formats. We affirm our conviction that her writings are divinely inspired, truly Christ-centered, and Bible-based. RATHER THAN REPLACING THE BIBLE, THEY UPLIFT THE NORMATIVE CHARACTER OF SCRIPTURE AND CORRECT INACCURATE INTERPRETATIONS OF IT derived from tradition, human reason, personal experience, and modern culture.
 

pythons

Active member
Yes, Ellen was enabled to define what is truth and what is error.

That is why our sda sabbath school members ask “what did Ellen say about that” when discussing bible topics in sabbath school classes.

That truth is what enabled our General Conference session to vote in favor of the statement of confidence in 2015 that voiced the policy that Ellen’s interpretations are the normative character of scripture

“On the centennial of her death, we rejoice that her writings have been made available around the globe in many languages, and in a variety of printed and electronic formats. We affirm our conviction that her writings are divinely inspired, truly Christ-centered, and Bible-based. RATHER THAN REPLACING THE BIBLE, THEY UPLIFT THE NORMATIVE CHARACTER OF SCRIPTURE AND CORRECT INACCURATE INTERPRETATIONS OF IT derived from tradition, human reason, personal experience, and modern culture.

How do you reason the anti-Trinitarian affirmations Ellen made while supposedly being under the power of God reflect the normative character of Scripture? How is that "Bible based".

What you are saying is that ONCE Ellen White DEFINED distinctive SDA Doctrine than those distinctive SDA Doctrine became the normative character of Scripture. LOL! You really thought this one out.
 
How do you reason the anti-Trinitarian affirmations Ellen made while supposedly being under the power of God reflect the normative character of Scripture? How is that "Bible based".

What you are saying is that ONCE Ellen White DEFINED distinctive SDA Doctrine than those distinctive SDA Doctrine became the normative character of Scripture. LOL! You really thought this one out.

The sda denomination is experiencing a wave of dissension and member attrition from those who reject the Trinity Doctrine.
 

pythons

Active member
The sda denomination is experiencing a wave of dissension and member attrition from those who reject the Trinity Doctrine.

Yes, and the primary reason is because Ellen's testimonies (her alleged inspired words) are against the Trinity.

We invite all to compare the testimonies of the Holy Spirit through Mrs. W., with the word of God. And in this we do not invite you to compare them with your creed. That is quite another thing. The trinitarian may compare them with his creed, and because they do not agree with it, condemn them. The observer of Sunday, or the man who holds eternal torment an important truth, and the minister that sprinkles infants, may each condemn the testimonies’ of Mrs. W. because they do not agree with their peculiar views. And a hundred more, each holding different views, may come to the same conclusion. But their genuineness can never be tested in this way. - Review & Herald, June 13, 1871

They = the TESTIMONIES not of Ellen White BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT. What they are saying is that Ellen's part of this [anti-Trinitarian] rhetoric was only the meat suit.

The Doctrine of the the Peccability of Christ and the Personality of God are two Doctrines that are incompatible with the Doctrine of the Trinity - you simply CAN'T believe in the Trinity while affirming Ellen White was in any way a prophet other than false.
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
That is your opinion to state at this present time, in GOD's free will choice benefits.

If you are found to be not a true witness, then Jesus' judgment is sure and eternal !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
She denied the true Jesus and true Gospel, was a heretic!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
This is just more self-inflated opinion. You are overtly rejecting Scripture in your zeal to maintain that "there is no Bible scriptures..."

The Bible says, "God has placed in the church ... prophets." Your misguided claims to the contrary, that's what the Bible SAYS. Furthermore it says, "eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, ESPECIALLY prophecy." Again, your claims are made in a vacuum of your own predetermined outcome. NOTHING in the Bible says that this "gift of the Spirit" will only be available until the death of John. Those who make this claim are actually elevating their own personal beliefs to a level of themselves being what they disclaim (i.e. a prophet!). Why do you elevate your own opinion above the very Words of God to His servants? It's really quite brazen.

Your certainty that "Ellen White was a false prophet" is negated by the fact that you are looking to your own finite and fallible opinion to validate a predetermined belief. If you can't embrace the fact that prophecy is a spiritual gift left for "the church" then your beliefs are bound to take you in a downward spiral of error begetting error.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
The Offices of both the OT Prophet and NT Apostle are now closed off, as there were NO additional revelations since John passed!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Well, you surmised wrong:




Prophecy in Scripture NEVER creates Doctrines or mutates existing Doctrine....
...Prophecy in Scripture calls people back to God / correct Doctrine.

Ellen White
At that time one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon ME, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays.--Gospel Works, p. 302. {3SM 32.1}"


Ellen White explicitly stated that SHE had the gift of prophecy and that as a Prophet SHE was given the power to DEFINE DOCTRINE!
...This is as alien to the teaching of Scripture as it's alien to the principles of the Protestant Reformation.
...I'm telling you what Ellen Claimed as the mechanism for defining Doctrine is ANTITHETICAL.
...To Reformation Theology.

Understand, I'm not calling out SDA's categorical rejection of Sola Scriptura as a Doctrine as I agree with rejecting it....
...What I'm doing is calling out Adventist misrepresentations that they ADHERE to Sola Scriptura when they clearly don't.
...That's what I'm doing here.
She held to another Gospel, one saved by good works and Sabbath keeping!
 
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