True non canonical prophet

BJ Bear

Well-known member
What part of one Lord one Faith one baptism are you having a problem with?
None at all with the scriptural one Lord one baptism and one faith but with the babbling misinterpretation of it which you've inserted in an out of context manner in this thread.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
What part of one Lord one Faith one baptism are you having a problem with?

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom;

The greatness of God’s power towards us believers is according to the same mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. Eph 1

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Col 3:15
None at all with the scriptural one Lord one baptism and one faith but with the babbling misinterpretation of it which you've inserted in an out of context manner in this thread.
Don't go back peddling. You said that the book of Ephesians was written for 1st century Christians and not for double talking babblers.

Is this in context babbler?

18 For through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,
20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Eph 2
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
Don't go back peddling. You said that the book of Ephesians was written for 1st century Christians and not for double talking babblers.
That's more out of context babbling since it has nothing to do with the context of the thread nor what I posted.
Is this in context babbler?

For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Eph 2
You still aren't a first century Ephesian Christian so why not just admit it? Are you afraid of God's word being objectively true? Objectively true, just as to the first century Christians Peter wrote that baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ. See 1 Peter 3:21-22.

What a person subjectively believes about God's word doesn't change the objective truth of God's word. It doesn't change what God's word objectively says and means.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Don't go back peddling. You said that the book of Ephesians was written for 1st century Christians and not for double talking babblers.

Is this in context babbler?

18 For through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,
20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Ephesians 2
That's more out of context babbling since it has nothing to do with the context of the thread nor what I posted.
What does your babbling have to do with the gift of God of eternal life through Jesus Christ?
You still aren't a first century Ephesian Christian so why not just admit it? Are you afraid of God's word being objectively true?
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Heb 13:8
Objectively true, just as to the first century Christians Peter wrote that baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ. See 1 Peter 3:21-22.
His divine power has given us everything we need... 2 Peter 1:3
What a person subjectively believes about God's word doesn't change the objective truth of God's word. It doesn't change what God's word objectively says and means.
What if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. Rom 3
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
What does your babbling have to do with the gift of God of eternal life through Jesus Christ?
In this thread it is accurate reflection of the person and work of Christ for all men.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Heb 13:8
Then you should believe, teach, and confess like the Apostles that baptism does now save you through the ressurection of Christ, see 1 Peter 3:21-22.
His divine power has given us everything we need... 2 Peter 1:3
Yes, and among those things He has given us which we need is baptism into Christ. There is no salvation apart from Christ.

What if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. Rom 3
That's why you too should confess along with the Apostles that baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ.
 

Common Tater

Active member
In this thread it is accurate reflection of the person and work of Christ for all men.

Then you should believe, teach, and confess like the Apostles that baptism does now save you through the ressurection of Christ, see 1 Peter 3:21-22.

Yes, and among those things He has given us which we need is baptism into Christ. There is no salvation apart from Christ.


That's why you too should confess along with the Apostles that baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ.
I am not sure that I believe that baptism is salvific. I see the thief on the cross as proof that it is not essential for salvation. That said tho, I think a Christian should be baptized as a public affirmation of his belief in Christ as his Savior.
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
I am not sure that I believe that baptism is salvific. I see the thief on the cross as proof that it is not essential for salvation. That said tho, I think a Christian should be baptized as a public affirmation of his belief in Christ as his Savior.
Ok. Just note that the death of the thief on the cross was prior to the command and promise of the risen Lord to His disciples. Since that is the case his circumstance provides no evidence of affirmation or denial of the categorical statements of the Lord and His disciples in this regard.

Everything turns on the resurrection of the Lord. See Acts 2, 1 Peter 3:21-22, Romans 6, etc.
 

Common Tater

Active member
Ok. Just note that the death of the thief on the cross was prior to the command and promise of the risen Lord to His disciples. Since that is the case his circumstance provides no evidence of affirmation or denial of the categorical statements of the Lord and His disciples in this regard.

Everything turns on the resurrection of the Lord. See Acts 2, 1 Peter 3:21-22, Romans 6, etc.
I am not trying to minimize baptism, I just think there are circumstances where it cannot be done (a foxhole conversion, etc).
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
I am not trying to minimize baptism, I just think there are circumstances where it cannot be done (a foxhole conversion, etc).
Sure, baptism is a promise rather than a legal requirement. Since a promise depends on the one making it, in this case God, it isn't the absence of baptism which condemns but a despising or denial of the promises of baptism into Christ.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
There is no salvation apart from Christ.

That's why you too should confess along with the Apostles that baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ.
Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ 2 Tim1:9
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” Luke 24:25-27
They proclaimed how the Messiah would suffer and be the first to be raised from death, so He could bring the light of salvation to his own people and to the Gentiles. Acts 26:23
Since He raised Him from the dead, He will never go back to the grave and become dust. So God said: ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings that I promised to David.’ Acts 13:34 'I will make an everlasting covenant with you,...' Isaiah 55:3 'I will not violate my covenant or alter the promise I have spoken.' Ps 89:35
BJ Bear said:
That is again avoiding the immediate context.

The right doctrine in this regard is to be found according to the immediate context in the record of the disciples who walked and talked with the incarnate, crucified, and risen Lord and whose minds were opened to understand the Scriptures.

A wrong understanding in this regard is to be found in the out of context thoughts of those who mentally cut and paste the Scriptures in such a way as to modify or deny the immediate context in order to imply or tell a story of his or her imagination.
If I'm avoiding the truth of the gospel, I'll see you in hell Pachelbel.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day...1 Cor 15

Who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Gal 1
In this thread it is accurate reflection of the person and work of Christ for all men.

Then you should believe, teach, and confess like the Apostles that baptism does now save you through the ressurection of Christ, see 1 Peter 3:21-22.
Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ 2 Tim1:9
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ 2 Tim1:9
Of course this is a tacit agreement on your part that baptism does now save you since God gave baptism, Christ, and baptism into Christ which does now save you.

Since God gave those things along with their associated promises they aren't man's work. Like the gospel in word alone they can only be received through faith by the one who receives them or despised and denied by those who don't believe in Christ, God incarnate, apart from whom there is no salvation.
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
Snipped the repetitive stuff that avoids the immediate context of what you seek to dispute.
Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ 2 Tim1:9
You are providing a great lesson to all who read the SDA board on how not to read and interpret the Bible.

If one reads that verse closely then one will see no direct or implicit mention of baptism which nullifies or negates the Scriptural witness of baptism. The passage is being used in a wholly out of context manner.

All men should take the lesson from Christ, the sinless one, who learned obedience from what He suffered, Hebrews 5:8. From what Christ suffered, experienced, He learned to obey, attentively listen, to God.

What does God say the passive person being baptized receives from Him in baptism into Christ? The passive person receives from God the forgiveness of sins, the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), salvation through the resurrection of Christ (1Peter 3:21), etc.

God calls all men to obey the truth. He doesn't call any man to take the truth out of context and then claim that the error he has created based on his own imagination is now the truth, is now what God really intended to say in this or that section of Scripture.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
You are providing a great lesson to all who read the SDA board on how not to read and interpret the Bible.

Snipped the repetitive stuff ...
Indeed.
At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. Titus 3
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
Indeed.
At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. Titus 3
Thank for posting a section of Scripture which clearly affirms that baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ, which clearly affirms the common faith.

Here is the citation you cited with two día/genitive constructs in bold. Dia plus the genitive indicate means. Thus "He saved us through the means of "the bath of new birth and regeneration of the Holy Spirit." And the means by which He poured that out is through Jesus Christ.

" At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. Titus 3"

You may have already noticed how what Paul wrote is the same thing as that section of Acts 2 but in different words. Here is the relevant section from Acts 2.

"“32. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth [poured out] this, which ye now see and hear...

38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized [passive] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.” (Act 2:38-39, KJVA) (Act 2:32-33...38-39, KJVA)

Please note who is acting and the action which occurs.
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
Thank for posting a section of Scripture which clearly affirms that baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ, which clearly affirms the common faith.

Here is the citation you cited with two día/genitive constructs in bold. Dia plus the genitive indicate means. Thus "He saved us through the means of "the bath of new birth and regeneration of the Holy Spirit." And the means by which He poured that out is through Jesus Christ.
"“32. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth [poured out] this, which ye now see and hear...

Please note who is acting and the action which occurs.
You don't have to act like you're saved by your water ritual when everybody and their brother knows it is a free gift.
What benefit did you derive from your empty rituals? None.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6
 

Common Tater

Active member
You don't have to act like you're saved by your water ritual when everybody and their brother knows it is a free gift.
What benefit did you derive from your empty rituals? None.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6
If baptism is an empty ritual, why is it mentioned so many times in the book of Acts?
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
You don't have to act like you're saved by your water ritual when everybody and their brother knows it is a free gift.
What benefit did you derive from your empty rituals? None.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6
If baptism is an empty ritual, why is it mentioned so many times in the book of Acts?
Why do you like talking out of both sides of your mouth?
I am not sure that I believe that baptism is salvific. I see the thief on the cross as proof that it is not essential for salvation.
The thief realized he didn't need a water ritual, a day of the week, special undergarments, he needed Christ.
 
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Common Tater

Active member
Why do you like talking out of both sides of your mouth?

The thief realized he didn't need a water ritual, a day of the week, special undergarments, he needed Christ.
Your logic tree looks like a phone pole. Suggesting that baptism is not an empty ritual is not the same a claiming it is salvific.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
You don't have to act like you're saved by your water ritual when everybody and their brother knows it is a free gift.
What benefit did you derive from your empty rituals? None.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6
Common Tater said:
If baptism is an empty ritual, why is it mentioned so many times in the book of Acts?
Why do you like talking out of both sides of your mouth?
Common Tater said:
I am not sure that I believe that baptism is salvific. I see the thief on the cross as proof that it is not essential for salvation.
The thief realized he didn't need a water ritual, a day of the week, special undergarments, he needed Christ.
Your logic tree looks like a phone pole. Suggesting that baptism is not an empty ritual is not the same a claiming it is salvific.
When it comes to the things of faith your logic is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word. ~ML
 
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