Common Tater
Active member
Revelation 13:8-9 shows that there is a who that all will be forced to choose whether or not to worship, not a when. Show me the Sunday Law Death Decree from the Bible, not from page 604 of The Great Controversy.
True non canonical prophet
- Thread starter Formersda
- Start date
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So you can judge what is in other people's hearts now ???
Have you been working on the definition of Christian blasphemy yet ???
"But you do not see these people as martyrs for the faith ...", The devil has counterfeit "martyrs" for his authority too. GOD will sort all this out, not men.
"You have turned the Sabbath into an idol,", This is your personal opinion. When it becomes a life or death issue in salvation in GOD's Point Of View Authority over "both soul and body in hell", versus man's point of view in authority over flesh of other humans.
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
AV Jer 17:9-10 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, [I} try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, [and] according to the fruit of his doings.
So you can judge what is in other people's hearts now ???
Have you been working on the definition of Christian blasphemy yet ???
"But you do not see these people as martyrs for the faith ...", The devil has counterfeit "martyrs" for his authority too. GOD will sort all this out, not men.
"You have turned the Sabbath into an idol,", This is your personal opinion. When it becomes a life or death issue in salvation in GOD's Point Of View Authority over "both soul and body in hell", versus man's point of view in authority over flesh of other humans.
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Okay, you have no faith in the prophecy from EGWhite, now !!!
AV Re 18:3-5 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
But when it becomes sight and hearing to your eyes and ears in evidence, you need to make a final decision of who's authority you will follow. It started when Eve had a decision between a created being and the Creator, and it will end that way as well.
Disobey GOD, the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit, and suffer the consequences of that decision.
AV Mt 25:8-10 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
I am trying to share now, later, I will not be able to.
Yours in Christ, Michael
Common Tater
Active member
So you have no Biblical proof of a Sunday Law Death Decree, just speculation by a non-biblical source.
No, I do not believe that Ellen White is a genuine prophet. She disobeyed the Bible's clear and repeated admonitions not to take part in setting a date for the Lord's return and never admitted to that disobedience, rather she said that those who had actually obeyed the Bible on this point were the ones who were in the wrong. She stated that the door for salvation was shut, which is simply a biblical falsehood, she stole the words and ideas of others and claimed they were her own. I could write pages as to why I believe that she is not a true prophet.
Common Tater
Active member
Implying that these Christians are counterfeit martyrs because they were killed for who they worship, rather than when they worship is really all anyone needs to know about what is fundamentally wrong with Seventh-Day Adventism.
[[
when reading thru the fog of Michaels post;
you see a
demonic hatred of any one not in goosestep with the McNuttlies of the SDA
an example;
Common Tater said:
On November 26 of this year, in Ta'agbe, Nigeria, eleven Christians were murdered and another thirty wounded, not because of the day they worshiped on, but for who they worshiped. But you do not see these people as martyrs for the faith because they did not die during some imaginary Sunday Law Death Decree. You have turned the Sabbath into an idol, a god you worship instead of Christ.
------------------------------------------------
and Michael replies
AV Jer 17:9-10 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, [I} try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, [and] according to the fruit of his doings.
So you can judge what is in other people's hearts now ???
Have you been working on the definition of Christian blasphemy yet ???
"But you do not see these people as martyrs for the faith ...", The devil has counterfeit "martyrs" for his authority too. GOD will sort all this out, not men.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Counterfeit Martyrs; ???????????????????
really Michael,
in other words they deserved it, they were not Sabbath Keepers
Really Michael; Really
Rev ch. 13
and the Dragon speaks thru his ministers;
no big deal if
in Ta'agbe, Nigeria, eleven Christians were murdered and another thirty wounded,
not because of the day they worshiped on, but for who they worshiped.
They should be killed; after all;
if a few "Counterfeit Martyrs; " get stepped on
no big deal
"
------------------- POSTERS ---------------
I have said it once; and I will say it again
It will be The McNuttlies of the SDA
that will stand in the "Courtyards of the Ceasars" of this age
and demand the Blood of anyone that will not Bow to them
after all God has said
Rev.3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan,
which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;
behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet,
and to know that I have loved thee.
We all know enough how Rome managed to rise to the supremacy in that 1st 3-4-500 years
and the results
"And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write;
............
know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is:
and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith,
even in those days wherein Antipas (Anti-Pope) was my faithful martyr,
who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth."
Michael has already tol us
it will be him and his Buddies that get to stone any "Sabbath Breakers"
and quoted Numbers 15 as his authority to do so
Common tator;
when reading thru the fog of Michaels post;
you see a
demonic hatred of any one not in goosestep with the McNuttlies of the SDAan example;
Common Tater said:
On November 26 of this year, in Ta'agbe, Nigeria, eleven Christians were murdered and another thirty wounded, not because of the day they worshiped on, but for who they worshiped. But you do not see these people as martyrs for the faith because they did not die during some imaginary Sunday Law Death Decree. You have turned the Sabbath into an idol, a god you worship instead of Christ.
------------------------------------------------
and Michael replies
AV Jer 17:9-10 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, [I} try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, [and] according to the fruit of his doings.
So you can judge what is in other people's hearts now ???
Have you been working on the definition of Christian blasphemy yet ???
"But you do not see these people as martyrs for the faith ...", The devil has counterfeit "martyrs" for his authority too. GOD will sort all this out, not men.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Counterfeit Martyrs; ???????????????????
really Michael,
in other words they deserved it, they were not Sabbath Keepers
Really Michael; Really
Rev ch. 13
and the Dragon speaks thru his ministers;
no big deal if
in Ta'agbe, Nigeria, eleven Christians were murdered and another thirty wounded,
not because of the day they worshiped on, but for who they worshiped.
They should be killed; after all;
if a few "Counterfeit Martyrs; " get stepped on
no big deal
"
------------------- POSTERS ---------------
I have said it once; and I will say it again
It will be The McNuttlies of the SDA
that will stand in the "Courtyards of the Ceasars" of this age
and demand the Blood of anyone that will not Bow to them
after all God has said
Rev.3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan,
which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;
behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet,
and to know that I have loved thee.
We all know enough how Rome managed to rise to the supremacy in that 1st 3-4-500 years
and the results
"And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write;
............
know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is:
and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith,
even in those days wherein Antipas (Anti-Pope) was my faithful martyr,
who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth."
Michael has already tol us
it will be him and his Buddies that get to stone any "Sabbath Breakers"
and quoted Numbers 15 as his authority to do so
And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness,
they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron,
and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses,
The man shall be surely put to death:
all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp,
and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.
Last edited:
New Testament Prophets were not the same as Old Testament Prophets, they were not canonical.
Common Tater
Active member
I'd like to ask the Adventists if they believe that the Bible alone is sufficient for revealing God's truth.
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
The way to deal with lies and opinions of others, Right ???
AV Jn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Follow Jesus' example, not contained in Bible canon, but revealed by "the Spirit of truth".
Did Jesus tell the Truth about the role of "the Spirit of truth" about "things to come" ???
AV Re 18:3-5 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Do you believe, this(Re 18:3-5 of GOD's Words) is a past event or future event, considering of course, ' the Bible" canon organized by men ' is closed ???
"I'd like to ask the Adventists if they believe that the Bible" canon organized by men "alone is sufficient for revealing God's truth.", No.
Short question: How can GOD give free will choice to us, in the presence of GOD's full revelation of Truth, without opinions ???
It is so hard to believe scriptures about other revelations(think Divine Omniscience), outside of scripture, as we know them ???
What was your goal and/or purpose in asking this question ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
The way to deal with lies and opinions of others, Right ???
AV Jn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Follow Jesus' example, not contained in Bible canon, but revealed by "the Spirit of truth".
AV Jn 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Did Jesus tell the Truth about the role of "the Spirit of truth" about "things to come" ???
AV Re 18:3-5 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Do you believe, this(Re 18:3-5 of GOD's Words) is a past event or future event, considering of course, ' the Bible" canon organized by men ' is closed ???
"I'd like to ask the Adventists if they believe that the Bible" canon organized by men "alone is sufficient for revealing God's truth.", No.
Short question: How can GOD give free will choice to us, in the presence of GOD's full revelation of Truth, without opinions ???
It is so hard to believe scriptures about other revelations(think Divine Omniscience), outside of scripture, as we know them ???
What was your goal and/or purpose in asking this question ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Well-known member
AV Re 16:4-7 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.
So does "Lord God Almighty" tell the Truth about "For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets" for the third plague(in the end of time) to be about GOD's Truth ???
Does a prophet need to be "canonical" by man's opinion, to be a true prophet in GOD's Omniscience ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
Christian SDA
Member
We Seventh-day Adventist believers agree that Ellen White had the Gift of Prophecy and is “CANONICAL INSOFAR AS DOCTRINAL INTERPRETATION AUTHORITY IS CONCERNED..."
That is direct from a trustee of the EGW Estate.
Also, the policy statement from the God’s highest authority on earth (the General Conference in session) tells our believing members that Ellen’s writings “correct inaccurate interpretations of scripture”.
Ellen’s writings are canonical.
That is direct from a trustee of the EGW Estate.
Also, the policy statement from the God’s highest authority on earth (the General Conference in session) tells our believing members that Ellen’s writings “correct inaccurate interpretations of scripture”.
Ellen’s writings are canonical.
Common Tater
Active member
You have not answered my question. Is the Bible sufficient for revealing God's truth? That is a yes or no answer.
You quote Jesus about "things to come". Jesus was crucified and rose in AD 30. The Holy Spirit was poured out upon the Apostles on the Day of Pentacost, the first day of the week which occurred 50 days after the crucifixion. John wrote the final book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelation, in about AD 95. Would it seem unreasonable to suppose that the Apostles, the writers of the books of the New Testament, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, were able to write down God's truth in the 65 years following Jesus' death?
But more importantly, I would like a simple yes or no answer to my question. Do you believe that the Bible is sufficient for revealing God's truth?
Common Tater
Active member
Christians believe that the Holy Spirit guided what books were chosen for the canon of Scripture. Christians believe that the Holy Spirit has protected the Bible and that it, being the inspired word of God, is the sole infallible authoritative source for revealing His truth to the church. Thank you for admitting that you do not believe in Sola Scriptura. I wish that the rest of the Seventh-day Adventist church was as truthful.
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Jn 14:6-11 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works'sake.
This is the same as "trinity", who defines meaning and context for this word ???
AV Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Many do not relate to GOD's Truth, the way we do.
Using their(man's) words means, using their(man's) understandings, this is where you have erred. Making you a heretic(using their thinking) in the process. Maybe you need to re-read GC, Right ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Jn 14:6-11 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works'sake.
Not a word, in common with scriptures.
So what does "canonical" mean outside of the SDA church ???
This is the same as "trinity", who defines meaning and context for this word ???
AV Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Many do not relate to GOD's Truth, the way we do.
Using their(man's) words means, using their(man's) understandings, this is where you have erred. Making you a heretic(using their thinking) in the process. Maybe you need to re-read GC, Right ???
Who is the Corrector of Heretics ???As found in SDA writings said:
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Jn 8:44-45 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.
Know who we are dealing with. Jesus' followers or 'the devil's followers. There are ONLY two sides in this !!!
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
When dealing with 'liar's like this, use Jesus' MO !!!
Your answer is Yes, I assume ???
Test Case:
AV Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Assuming to you believe Jesus' Omniscience words, "The sabbath" is "for man", where do many find 'Jews' in those words, and not make Jesus a liar ???
You do realize, Jesus is a sabbath keeper as a "man", when murdered, Right ???
I realize, you can not influence the laws of men, just react to them. To keep from being a hypocrite in the the time during the Sunday Law, I will be the first to welcome you back to the SDA Church !!!
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Jn 8:44-45 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.
Know who we are dealing with. Jesus' followers or 'the devil's followers. There are ONLY two sides in this !!!
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
When dealing with 'liar's like this, use Jesus' MO !!!
You failed to address the presumption(s) in your question. In it's present condition, you have not presented an answerable question.
Your answer is Yes, I assume ???
Test Case:
AV Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Assuming to you believe Jesus' Omniscience words, "The sabbath" is "for man", where do many find 'Jews' in those words, and not make Jesus a liar ???
You do realize, Jesus is a sabbath keeper as a "man", when murdered, Right ???
I realize, you can not influence the laws of men, just react to them. To keep from being a hypocrite in the the time during the Sunday Law, I will be the first to welcome you back to the SDA Church !!!
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Mt 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
So your assumption is the majority is Right, and Jesus is wrong ???
"Thank you for admitting that you do not believe" Jesus' words !!!
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Mt 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
AV Mt 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
So your assumption is the majority is Right, and Jesus is wrong ???
"Thank you for admitting that you do not believe" Jesus' words !!!
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Well-known member
You brought the history of the church. And the latter early church was clueless of the meaning, and was left in the canon of scriptures.
AV Re 6:1-8 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. 3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse [that was] red: and [power] was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. 5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine. 7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
What is the symbolism of these horses and their riders here ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
What New Testament Prophet was Canonical?
New Testament Prophet's function were to build up the Church, not the poor caliber Circus side show histrionics Ellen White was known for.
Common Tater
Active member
Regarding your "test case", once again you butcher Mark 2.
Let's take a look at the passage in question.
And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. The Pharisees were saying to Him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” And He *said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he was in need and he and his companions became hungry; how he entered the house of God in the [l]time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the [m]consecrated bread, which is not lawful for anyone to eat except the priests, and he also gave it to those who were with him?” Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath [n]was made [o]for man, and not man [p]for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.” Mark 2:23-28 NASB
The Pharisees are asking why the disciples are not following the Law on the Sabbath. Jesus gives the example of David and his men eating the shewbread, even though it was not lawful for any but the priests to do so. David's needs took precedence over the Law. That is the question that Jesus is answering. The Sabbath was made to serve the needs of people, not the other way around. He was not now declaring a new doctrine that the Sabbath was given to every nation and people. God had already told Israel differently. God had told Israel that the Sabbath was a sign of the Covenant between Him and them alone.
The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. ‘Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. ‘So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’ “It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.” Exodus 31:12-17 NASB
“So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. “I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live. “Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. Ezekial 20:10-12 NASB
There would have been nothing special about the Sabbath as a sign if God had given it to all of mankind. God gave circumcision to Abraham and his descendants as a sign of the Abrahamic Covenant. There would have been nothing special about circumcision as a sign if He had given it also to all of mankind.
Jews, then as now, understand that the Sabbath was a sign between God and Israel alone. You butcher the context of what is being said in Mark 2.
Common Tater
Active member
Again, none of this refutes in any way the fact that the Bible is sufficient for revealing God's truth to the church.