The NT Apostles are the equivalent of the OT Prophets
The Sda misunderstanding of danial due to mistranslation of it in the Kjv!
True non canonical prophet
- Thread starter Formersda
- Start date
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Your opinion is noted, in your personal authority.
AV Eph 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Are there still "apostles" in "the body of Christ" in the church today ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
Victor
Active member
The mistranslation the KJV renders from Daniel 8 is well documented, and you don't have grounds to relegate it to mere opinion. It is established fact.
SDAchristian
Well-known member
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#2: That which is noted in the scripture of Truth
and the Teastimony of Christ is
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you:
and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended,
and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Name's Sake. Michael, His Name Sake
not over Sabbath / Sunday
#1: To the Law and too the Testimony
#2: That which is noted in the scripture of Truth
and the Teastimony of Christ is
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you:
and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended,
and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Name's Sake. Michael, His Name Sake
not over Sabbath / Sunday
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Condemnation is not teaching of a truth, it is just judgment.
I consider Textus Receptus 1894 as reliable, care to go further than condemnation to teaching then ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Currently, we have one opinion in conflict with another opinion. There are many conflicts of opinions from scriptures.
Condemnation is not teaching of a truth, it is just judgment.
I consider Textus Receptus 1894 as reliable, care to go further than condemnation to teaching then ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Show me GOD's Words changing from sabbath to sunday then, without committing blasphemy ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
---------------False Teachers, Deceivers, Wanna-be-Jews----------------
The Testimony of the Apostle Paul is this
about those that will come during the Church of Laodicea
Col.2:1
For I want you to know how great a struggle
I have for you and for those [believers] at Laodicea,
..
Now he warn of these folks
Therefore let no one judge you in regard to
food and drink or in regard to [the observance of] a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day.
17 Such things are only a shadow of what is to come and they have only symbolic value;
but the substance [the reality of what is foreshadowed] belongs to Christ.
18 Let no one defraud you of your prize [your freedom in Christ and your salvation] by insisting on mock humility and the worship of angels,
going into detail about visions [he claims] he has seen [to justify his authority], puffed up [in conceit] by his unspiritual mind,
9 and not holding fast to the head [of the body, Jesus Christ], from whom the entire body,
supplied and knit together by its joints and ligaments, grows with the growth [that can come only] from God.
20 If you have died with Christ to the [j]elementary principles of the world,
why, as if you were still living in the world, do you submit to rules and regulations, such as,
21 “Do not handle [this], do not taste [that], do not [even] touch!”?
22 (these things all perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men.
23 These practices indeed have the appearance [that popularly passes as that] of wisdom
in self-made religion
and mock humility and severe treatment of the body (asceticism),
but are of no value against sinful indulgence
[because they do not honor God].
The Testimony of the Apostle Paul is this
about those that will come during the Church of Laodicea
Col.2:1
For I want you to know how great a struggle
I have for you and for those [believers] at Laodicea,
..
Now he warn of these folks
Therefore let no one judge you in regard to
food and drink or in regard to [the observance of] a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day.
17 Such things are only a shadow of what is to come and they have only symbolic value;
but the substance [the reality of what is foreshadowed] belongs to Christ.
18 Let no one defraud you of your prize [your freedom in Christ and your salvation] by insisting on mock humility and the worship of angels,
going into detail about visions [he claims] he has seen [to justify his authority], puffed up [in conceit] by his unspiritual mind,
9 and not holding fast to the head [of the body, Jesus Christ], from whom the entire body,
supplied and knit together by its joints and ligaments, grows with the growth [that can come only] from God.
20 If you have died with Christ to the [j]elementary principles of the world,
why, as if you were still living in the world, do you submit to rules and regulations, such as,
21 “Do not handle [this], do not taste [that], do not [even] touch!”?
22 (these things all perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men.
23 These practices indeed have the appearance [that popularly passes as that] of wisdom
in self-made religion
and mock humility and severe treatment of the body (asceticism),
but are of no value against sinful indulgence
[because they do not honor God].
Victor
Active member
Your posts have become increasingly bizarre - you accept the Textus Receptus as reliable in the same breath as rejecting what it says?
Frankly, it is immaterial. The Textus Receptus doesn't cover the book of Daniel, which is not in the New Testament.
Ellen White proved she wasn't inspired when she formulated the "foundation and central pillar of the Advent faith" on a mistranslation in the King James version of the Bible - which is an English translation otherwise known as the 1769 Authorised Version. And here you are, following her mistake into error.
As I mentioned, the KJV mistake is well documented.
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Victor
Active member
Why don't you show us where this fairy tale ever took place from the Word of God?
Is anyone to your knowledge using the writings of Judas and Silas today? Perhaps Philips 4 unmarried daughters? "THE BIBLE" explicitly says that Philip's 4 daughters were prophets, "THE BIBLE" also says Judas and Silas were "Prophets". Where are their writings / teachings?
1,
David is Canonical Prophet - he has continuing authority BECAUSE HE's canonized....
...If you don't consider Ellen White Canonical why are you still using her writings as if she's equal to David?
2,
Catholics don't set aside Scripture in favor of traditions contradictory to the Bible. SDA's have done this with the traditions they got from Ellen White - specifically concerning the Personality of God and the Peccability of Christ.
3,
I'm not saying Nathan or Gad were lessor Prophets, just that they don't have continuing authority BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT CANONICAL. Just like EVERY other Prophet who's NOT CANONICAL.
4,
Lurkers, - Icyspark is maintaining that Ellen White has a "continuing authority" while my position is that "PUBLIC REVELATION" terminated at the death of the last Apostle. The ONLY thing left after the death of the last Apostle is "PRIVATE REVELATION".
Canonical Prophets = PUBLIC REVELATION = BINDING , intended for all time.
Outside of Canonized = PRIVATE revelation = NOT, intended for a specific time
Christian SDA
Member
If Ellen’s writings are not canonical, how can her writings correct the errors in interpretation of scripture made by others?
If Ellen’s writings are not canonical, why do our members seek to settle questions of Bible topics in our sabbath school classes by asking “what does Ellen White say?”.
If Ellen’s writings are not canonical, why do our members seek to settle questions of Bible topics in our sabbath school classes by asking “what does Ellen White say?”.
Christian SDA
Member
Even the trusteeship of the EGW Estate has stated that her writings are canonical and supersede the words of trained theologians
"INSOFAR AS ELLEN WHITE'S ROLE IN THE CHURCH IS CONCERNED-- WHETHER PASTORAL OR CANONICAL- I think we must here give pause and rethink the acceptance with ease of Ford" proposition. In his forum talk at P.U.C. HE INDICATED THAT ELLEN WHITE'S ROLE WAS PASTORAL NOT CANONICAL. This is a gross perversion of the truth...The real conflict and issue today is this: ARE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS BEING CONDITIONED TO VIEW ELLEN WHITE AS PASTORAL AND NOT CANONICAL? Shall we accept the view that a Seventh-day Adventist theologian is more dependable than a Seventh-day Adventist prophet? I highly respect many of our Seventh-day Adventist theologians. I have sat at their feet and been taught by them. I admire and respect them highly. I would like to remind you, however, that you can search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will not find a single text marking out theologians as having the gift of the Holy Sprit. The Scriptures indicate however, that prophets have a gift of the Holy Spirit. ELLEN WHITE HAD THAT GIFT AND SHE WAS CANONICAL INSOFAR AS DOCTRINAL INTERPRETATION AUTHORITY IS CONCERNED..." -- Letter from D. A. Delafiel trustee of the EGW Estate, to P. C. Drewer, June 24, 1981.
"INSOFAR AS ELLEN WHITE'S ROLE IN THE CHURCH IS CONCERNED-- WHETHER PASTORAL OR CANONICAL- I think we must here give pause and rethink the acceptance with ease of Ford" proposition. In his forum talk at P.U.C. HE INDICATED THAT ELLEN WHITE'S ROLE WAS PASTORAL NOT CANONICAL. This is a gross perversion of the truth...The real conflict and issue today is this: ARE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS BEING CONDITIONED TO VIEW ELLEN WHITE AS PASTORAL AND NOT CANONICAL? Shall we accept the view that a Seventh-day Adventist theologian is more dependable than a Seventh-day Adventist prophet? I highly respect many of our Seventh-day Adventist theologians. I have sat at their feet and been taught by them. I admire and respect them highly. I would like to remind you, however, that you can search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will not find a single text marking out theologians as having the gift of the Holy Sprit. The Scriptures indicate however, that prophets have a gift of the Holy Spirit. ELLEN WHITE HAD THAT GIFT AND SHE WAS CANONICAL INSOFAR AS DOCTRINAL INTERPRETATION AUTHORITY IS CONCERNED..." -- Letter from D. A. Delafiel trustee of the EGW Estate, to P. C. Drewer, June 24, 1981.
Welcome back Christian SDA;
maybe there is hope for the SDA Church
maybe there is hope for the SDA Church
What say ye Michael;
Hi Formersda,
Yes, I believe EGW was a prophet because she meets the biblical criteria for such and also that her gift was/is in harmony with 1 Corinthians 14:22.
Do you believe that the gift of prophesy is a "spiritual gift" of the NT church as set forth at the beginning of that same book and chapter?
14 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; [a]for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification."
According to the Apostle Paul, the prophetic gift's primary purpose is for edification (the instruction or improvement of a person morally or intellectually) and exhortation (an address or communication emphatically urging someone to do something) of the church and is the gift the apostle says we should desire most. Ever wonder why?
Hi Suzy,
you answered your question when you said Paul stated it was edifying believers, continue on to verse 24 and 25 this tells you what prophecy does. What Paul omits here that the gift of prophecy is authoritative, for doctrines or infallible.
The gift of prophecy must always be subordinate to scripture, this gift Paul talks about is revelation verse 30 from one person in that place to another. But that gift must always be tested, as per scriptures.
The scriptures alone have full authority for correction not EGW. The testimony of JESUS is the spirit of prophecy, it is Jesus’s own testimony about Himself.
The foundation for the church was given by Jesus to the apostles to give to the church, there is only one foundation you can’t build another foundation onto another.
EGW is dead, if she did prophecy then her gift ended when she died, it would be expected another prophet would replace her if the gift is continuing. None of us follow the prophets in the Bible, we follow Christ and God gave us the scriptures to show us about Himself and is profitable for correction.
The Bible alone, not Bible and EGW. EGW writings cannot be canonical, they cannot interpret scripture and are not above scripture.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than a two edged sword, and piercing as far as division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
The Bible is living and active not EGW writings, the Bible is about to convict souls not EGW.
Hebrews 1:1,2 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways. In these LAST days has spoken to us through His Son, whom He appointed heir of ALL things through whom also He made the world.
Jesus‘s words are THE words we listen to they are the final authority. The last days started back then not in 1844.
Suzy Q,
I am not here to convince you, I can only share the scriptures and pray that the Holy Spirit will convict anyone reading.
It is only God that can awaken you, it is only God through His word that convict you of the truth.
But by putting the words of God in the Bible aside for the writings of a “prophet” will only lead to damnation.
As a Christian it is imperitive that we submit to scripture alone, you need to read passages not just verses to get the context.
I do not just obey 10 commandments I obey many more which is in scripture, the Ten Commandments don’t tell me that I have to love my neighbor as myself. The Ten Commandments don’t tell me not to hate anyone. The Ten Commandments don’t tell me that I shouldn’t gossip.
Indeed what is the law for? The purpose was for transgressions of sins, Galations 3:19-26. But romans tells me that ALL have sinned and broken the law, to say you keep to the law is meaning you don’t sin and we all sin. The Ten Commandments never stops us from sinning because all of us breaks the Ten Commandments. Never once have I seen an SDA keep the sabbath as commanded in the bible not once. And to say you have is to say your without sin which is contrary to the bible.
Lurkers, CARM does not recommend the SDA church for fellowship as it denies basic doctrines such as the full atonement of Christ on the cross.
I do not view the SDA church as a part of the body of Christ and God will spit out this church.
So when you stand in front of the great white throne, what will you answer when asked why did you not submit to My words in scripture? Why did you follow the lessor light when I AM the light? Why did you condemn my sons and daughters in other churches, I choose them I made them in My image? You were warned by former SDA, you ignored them and ridiculed them and where rude so hear this I NEVER KNEW YOU! Those are words you do not want to hear from Jesus, so repent and submit to the finished work of Christ on the cross and accept Him as your Lord and Saviour.
You will not go to heaven following the SDA church, the only way is through Christ and Christ alone.
This is the gospel by which you are saved, that Christ died according to scripture, was buried and rose again according to scripture 1St Corinthians 15:4,5. That’s the gospel.
So I stand by my words, with the knowledge that I am saved by Christ.
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