True Salvation

A

Alison Wonderland

Member
Jn 17:3, “Now eternal Life is this; that you know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.”

Now most of the world knows about Jesus, but rejects him so knowing about Jesus is not what Jesus is talking about here. You can’t know someone until you meet him.

Reciting a prayer is not meeting someone nor is saying “I repent” meeting him, nor is saying, “I accept this person into my life” before you’ve met the person, nor deciding to believe that some guy existed over 2000 years ago and died for your sins is actually meeting him. People can believe that Caesar existed over 2,000 years ago but that’s not knowing Caesar. You’re simply taking other people’s words that Caesar existed. A person has to MAKE himself KNOWN to YOU PERSONALLY in order to meet him.

And it’s the same with Jesus. Jesus has to live and work in you to know him. (2 Co. 13:5, Ephes. 5:29-31, Phil. 2:13). A relationship takes two people so you have to personally meet Jesus through the Holy Spirit by experiencing His power change your heart. Jn 14:20). Then you know Jesus personally through the Holy Spirit who lives in your heart and can communicate directly to you through Scripture and you can communicate with Him through prayer.

But unfortunately, most of the professing church today is not taught to meet Jesus. These ‘teachers’ want quick converts to get more members and make more money. So they simply tell you to recite a prayer or call Jesus Lord (which even wolves in sheep’s clothing do) and you’ll be saved.

So, just as unfortunately, they’re producing false converts described in Mt. 7:21-23 who will be told, “I never KNEW you. Away from me, you evil-doers!” These include people who are taking other people’s word that Jesus is Lord so their faith is in those people, not in their first hand knowledge that Jesus is alive today. They simply trust that other people such as pastors, theologians, parents, friends, etc., know about that man and can tell them what he said and what he means. So their faith is in those people, not in Jesus alone. They’re also described in 2 Tim. 4:3-4.

But other people can't make you know Jesus personally or understand the bible; understanding comes only from the Holy Spirit who is Jesus living in us. (1 Co. 2:11-14, Jn 16:13). So if you want to be saved then follow what Jesus says in Lk.11:13, "Ask, Seek and Knock", essentially A.S.K. for the Holy Spirit then WAIT until you receive Him. You will know it when you receive Him.
 
A

Alison Wonderland

Member
Arch Stanton said:
Indeed! That is why I am Catholic.

Jn 6:53 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you DO NOT HAVE LIFE within you.
Click to expand...
Yeah but the flesh of Jesus is not a wafer that you eat then leaves your body before the end of the day. That's perishable food not imperishable food. That's why Jesus says later in that passage, "The SPIRIT gives life, the flesh counts for NOTHING." You can't buy Jesus at the grocery store nor does sprinkling anything on a wafer turn it into Jesus. Jesus HIMSELF is now a life-giving Spirit. (1 Co. 15:45).

So the wafer doesn't give us everlasting life. The Spirit of JESUS does when we receive the Holy Spirit which NEVER leaves the body until the day of our death which then transforms us into a resurrected body. :) That's why 2 Co. 13:5 says, "Examine yourselves to see if you're in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you...unless of course, you've failed the test?"

According to the Catholics you will fail the test once the wafer leaves your body, Arch. In fact they will fail the test every time they go to the bathroom after they've taken communion. ☹️ An they will definitely fail the test permanetly if they die before they've eaten their next wafer at communion.So that's not everlasting life. That's why perishable food NEVER gives us everlasting life because it's temporary.

Jesus is the MANNA and manna is not store bought bread. It came from HEAVEN from God Himself which Jesus also did. Jn 6:58. So you need to receive the SPIRIT of CHRIST IN YOU to have everlasting lfie. Jn 14:20, 2 Co. 13:5. :)
 
Last edited:
CrowCross

CrowCross

Super Member
Alison Wonderland said:
These include people who are taking other people’s word that Jesus is Lord so their faith is in those people, not in their first hand knowledge that Jesus is alive today. They simply trust that other people such as pastors, theologians, parents, friends, etc., know about that man and can tell them what he said and what he means. So their faith is in those people, not in Jesus alone.
Click to expand...
You make it sound as if Lydia wasn't saved.
Acts 16:14 Among those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.

She trusted what Paul said...Does that mean she didn't trust in Jesus alone???
 
A

Alison Wonderland

Member
CrowCross said:
You make it sound as if Lydia wasn't saved.
Acts 16:14 Among those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.

She trusted what Paul said...Does that mean she didn't trust in Jesus alone???
Click to expand...
The Lord opened her heart, Crowcross, which means that the Lord was active in her salvation. Those were the LORD's actions, not Lydia's. :) As Jesus says, EVERYONE MUST be born again of the Holy Spirit to be saved. Jn 3:5.

As for your second question, Paul's message came from Jesus himself as Paul says in Gal. 1:11, " I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

So everything that Paul said in the NT came directly by revelation from Jesus Himself (except where Paul says, "I, not the Lord" which I think is only in 1 Co. 7). That's why the whole Bible, including the NT, is inspired by God. It was revealed to the OT Prophets and NT apostles by God and our Lord Himself. So yes, Lydia was learning from Jesus through Paul just as we are learning from Jesus through the words of the apostles as well. :)
 
Last edited:
Arch Stanton

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
Alison Wonderland said:
Yeah but the flesh of Jesus is not a wafer that you eat then leaves your body before the end of the day. That's perishable food not imperishable food. That's why Jesus says later in that passage, "The SPIRIT gives life, the flesh counts for NOTHING." You can't buy Jesus at the grocery store nor does sprinkling anything on a wafer turn it into Jesus. Jesus HIMSELF is now a life-giving Spirit. (1 Co. 15:45).
Click to expand...
The flesh is not my [Christ's] flesh.
 
CrowCross

CrowCross

Super Member
Alison Wonderland said:
The Lord opened her heart, Crowcross, which means that the Lord was active in her salvation. Those were the LORD's actions, not Lydia's. :) As Jesus says, EVERYONE MUST be born again of the Holy Spirit to be saved. Jn 3:5.

As for your second question, Paul's message came from Jesus himself as Paul says in Gal. 1:11, " I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

So everything that Paul said in the NT came directly by revelation from Jesus Himself (except where Paul says, "I, not the Lord" which I think is only in 1 Co. 7). That's why the whole Bible, including the NT, is inspired by God. It was revealed to the OT Prophets and NT apostles by God and our Lord Himself. So yes, Lydia was learning from Jesus through Paul just as we are learning from Jesus through the words of the apostles as well. :)
Click to expand...

Yup, unless God does something, you can't be saved.

sometimes God uses a preacher to spread the gospel.
 
A

Alison Wonderland

Member
CrowCross said:
Yup, unless God does something, you can't be saved.

sometimes God uses a preacher to spread the gospel.
Click to expand...
Yup. It's GOD who decided whether we will even be BORN into this world, Crowcrss. We can't even BREATHE without God allowing us to do so!
So absolutely everything is determined by God because HE is our CREATOR. That's why James 4:13-15 tells us NOT to claim to do anything in the future because it's up to GOD whether we'll even be alive tomorrow. As he says, all such boasting about tomorrow is evil because it eliminates the presence of God AND His power and sovereignty over our lives. So we are told to say, "Lord willing." So every action on earth belongs to God, including salvation so salvation belongs to the LORD.

So as Jesus says in Lk. 11:13, he who seeks will find, Crowcross. (Lk. 11:9-13). But as Jesus also says in Jn 6;44, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him."

So the only people who will be saved are those who WANT to be saved because God is drawing them. Those whom God is NOT drawing do NOT WANT to be saved and there are billions of them. They don't know if God is drawing them or not. They simply act our of their desires. My biological family does NOT WANT to hear the gospel. So God will give them their wish.

So everyone is doing what they want to do and God is displying his authority and power at the same time. :)

Rom. 9:21, "Does not the potter have the right to make some for noble purposes and some for common use"? YUP. He sure does. :)

But unfortunately, most people don't think God has a right to do anything he wants. So they don't like the God of the Bible. They are also refecting His kingdom so they won't be saved either.
 
Last edited:
Our Lord's God

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Alison Wonderland said:
Jn 17:3, “Now eternal Life is this; that you know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.”

Now most of the world knows about Jesus, but rejects him so knowing about Jesus is not what Jesus is talking about here. You can’t know someone until you meet him.

Reciting a prayer is not meeting someone nor is saying “I repent” meeting him, nor is saying, “I accept this person into my life” before you’ve met the person, nor deciding to believe that some guy existed over 2000 years ago and died for your sins is actually meeting him. People can believe that Caesar existed over 2,000 years ago but that’s not knowing Caesar. You’re simply taking other people’s words that Caesar existed. A person has to MAKE himself KNOWN to YOU PERSONALLY in order to meet him.

And it’s the same with Jesus. Jesus has to live and work in you to know him. (2 Co. 13:5, Ephes. 5:29-31, Phil. 2:13). A relationship takes two people so you have to personally meet Jesus through the Holy Spirit by experiencing His power change your heart. Jn 14:20). Then you know Jesus personally through the Holy Spirit who lives in your heart and can communicate directly to you through Scripture and you can communicate with Him through prayer.

But unfortunately, most of the professing church today is not taught to meet Jesus. These ‘teachers’ want quick converts to get more members and make more money. So they simply tell you to recite a prayer or call Jesus Lord (which even wolves in sheep’s clothing do) and you’ll be saved.

So, just as unfortunately, they’re producing false converts described in Mt. 7:21-23 who will be told, “I never KNEW you. Away from me, you evil-doers!” These include people who are taking other people’s word that Jesus is Lord so their faith is in those people, not in their first hand knowledge that Jesus is alive today. They simply trust that other people such as pastors, theologians, parents, friends, etc., know about that man and can tell them what he said and what he means. So their faith is in those people, not in Jesus alone. They’re also described in 2 Tim. 4:3-4.

But other people can't make you know Jesus personally or understand the bible; understanding comes only from the Holy Spirit who is Jesus living in us. (1 Co. 2:11-14, Jn 16:13). So if you want to be saved then follow what Jesus says in Lk.11:13, "Ask, Seek and Knock", essentially A.S.K. for the Holy Spirit then WAIT until you receive Him. You will know it when you receive Him.
Click to expand...

This is plainly laid out in Scripture. Most just refuse to believe it.
 
CrowCross

CrowCross

Super Member
Alison Wonderland said:
Yup. It's GOD who decided whether we will even be BORN into this world, Crowcrss. We can't even BREATHE without God allowing us to do so!
So absolutely everything is determined by God because HE is our CREATOR. That's why James 4:13-15 tells us NOT to claim to do anything in the future because it's up to GOD whether we'll even be alive tomorrow. As he says, all such boasting about tomorrow is evil because it eliminates the presence of God AND His power and sovereignty over our lives. So we are told to say, "Lord willing." So every action on earth belongs to God, including salvation so salvation belongs to the LORD.

So as Jesus says in Lk. 11:13, he who seeks will find, Crowcross. (Lk. 11:9-13). But as Jesus also says in Jn 6;44, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him."

So the only people who will be saved are those who WANT to be saved because God is drawing them. Those whom God is NOT drawing do NOT WANT to be saved and there are billions of them. They don't know if God is drawing them or not. They simply act our of their desires. My biological family does NOT WANT to hear the gospel. So God will give them their wish.

So everyone is doing what they want to do and God is displying his authority and power at the same time. :)

Rom. 9:21, "Does not the potter have the right to make some for noble purposes and some for common use"? YUP. He sure does. :)

But unfortunately, most people don't think God has a right to do anything he wants. So they don't like the God of the Bible. They are also refecting His kingdom so they won't be saved either.
Click to expand...
You had said....My biological family does NOT WANT to hear the gospel. So God will give them their wish.

Your biological family can't hear the Gospel...unless God opens their hearts and gives them ears to hear.
 
A

Alison Wonderland

Member
Our Lord's God said:
This is plainly laid out in Scripture. Most just refuse to believe it.
Click to expand...

CrowCross said:
You had said....My biological family does NOT WANT to hear the gospel. So God will give them their wish.

Your biological family can't hear the Gospel...unless God opens their hearts and gives them ears to hear.
Click to expand...
But they don't know that, Crowcross, and frankly, they don't care either. They're like atheists who say, "I don't WANT your God." They're acting from their desires and are perfectly happy to do so. The fact of the matter is that GOD is our CREATOR AND POTTER. People need to accept that in order to understand anything that God does.
 
CrowCross

CrowCross

Super Member
Alison Wonderland said:
But they don't know that, Crowcross, and frankly, they don't care either. They're like atheists who say, "I don't WANT your God." They're acting from their desires and are perfectly happy to do so. The fact of the matter is that GOD is our CREATOR AND POTTER. People need to accept that in order to understand anything that God does.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree.
 
Our Lord's God

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
CrowCross said:
You had said....My biological family does NOT WANT to hear the gospel. So God will give them their wish.

Your biological family can't hear the Gospel...unless God opens their hearts and gives them ears to hear.
Click to expand...

You don't seem to realize that it is the preaching of the Gospel which opens hearts.

And that is why Jesus commanded his disciples to do absolutely nothing until they had received the Spirit of God from on High.
 
M

MMDAN

Well-known member
Indeed! That is why I am Catholic.

Jn 6:53 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you DO NOT HAVE LIFE within you.

Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him unto salvation. Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life. The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.
 
M

MMDAN

Well-known member
Arch Stanton said:
Indeed! That is why I am Catholic.

Jn 6:53 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you DO NOT HAVE LIFE within you.
Click to expand...
Jesus is the Bread of Life and just as bread nourishes our physical bodies, Jesus gives and sustains eternal life to all believers. John 6:35 - "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." Jesus used figurative language to emphasize these spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says in John 6:63 - "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

Eating and drinking is not literally eating flesh and drinking blood (cannibalism) but the reception of God’s grace by believing in Christ, as He makes clear by repeating the same truths below:

John 6:40 - Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54- Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47- Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 6:58- He who eats this bread will live forever.

"He who believes" in Christ is equivalent to "he who eats this bread and drinks My blood" because the end result is the same, eternal life.
Click to expand...

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top