trying to keep the Law vs keeping the Law


Well-known member
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.’ Leviticus 17:11
the central verse of the Torah
Yes, notice the requirements for an altar, and blood as a means of atonement. We are shown later that God designated where to apply the blood ultimately - the temple in Jerusalem.

If blood is just ok by itself, then when Jews slaughter and eat kosher, then we fulfill this as meat was only allowed as part of sacrifices.

We don't need Jesus since his blood never made it to the altar nor is human sacrifices commanded. And we eat kosher meat all of the time.

Woah, yr sounding like Me now. :)
Not quite. ;)


Well-known member
would giving up your life for the good of others be allowed under the Law?
Moses attempted to, but again human sacrifices are not commanded. Please find a verse that supports this.

Commanded human sacrifices on the altar. Please show this. And show how Jesus fulfilled this.

Basically, you're pushing Jesus fulfilling a non-commanded sacrifice. How ironic?

Does the Law require death of innocent life on behalf of the guilty at times?
Animals are innocent of our sins.

Again, please show where human sacrifices are commanded? If you can't prove this, you're whistle dixie....

You've been pussfooting long enough.
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Well-known member
I guess we agree here.
Yes, not commanded. I'd give my life to save my family. That doesn't atone for them. Neither was Moses attempting that.

Human sacrifice in the manner I think you are intending is not commanded - I don't see where I have said so.
Then Jesus satisfied nothing. Christians pushing Lev 17:11 actually shoots their argument apart.

I asked if giving up your life for good of others is ok...i guess we agree.
Yes, it atones for nothing.


Well-known member
Blood is a part of the Law/covenant is the point.
It's only part of it and not the only means. And it requires to be on the altar in the temple in Jerusalem. Jesus didn't satisfy that requirement. Why don't you push this point?

the Law requires substitutional Death for transgression at times yes/no?
At times, and specific sins. How does death pay for a financial debt owed?

it wasn't just because God likes the aroma of BBQ
No. Why are you running away from the fact that Jesus satisfied nothing? No human sacrifices.


Well-known member
"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord." John 10
Doesn't matter. No commandment required it nor does it satisfy anything.

You're running away from the very requirements of the law you're pushing on me. It's quite funny. So you're Messiah satisfies the law by abrogating the law, huh?

Temple on Earth is just a copy of the real one in Heaven.

"See that you make them according to the pattern shown you" Exodus 25
Nothing says a pattern in heaven was shown.


Well-known member
"Heaven is My throne, and Earth is My footstool. What kind of house will you build for Me?" Isaiah 66
Earthly temples might be impressive to Men, but not to God.
No mention of heavenly temple, right?

A throne room is not a temple. You seem pretty desperate for an answer. ;)

Not at all - do it all.
Great. And not one requires human sacrifices. The blood I got covered when I eat steak.

What law did Jesus keep by his human sacrifice?

Thanks for playing;)


Well-known member
sin sacrifices (individuals)
Passover (family)
Yom Kippur (Nation)
got Blood?
Yes, and in the same way the law requires mercy when things are impossible. That's what happened for Daniel, etc.

Death of Messiah wasn't required in the law. Why are you adding a non requirement? That's hypocritical, AG.

My steak has it all covered. ;)

thanks for playing :)
Yes, the same OP for keeping the law shows Jesus abrogating the law by a non existent human sacrifice requirement. You can't even admit this. Rotfl...

Why can't you address my whole posts?
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Well-known member
this is the Judaism board!
Yes, it is. And your Jesus and Paul are full of blah blah.

me with my steak and battered shrimp :) Noahide s'all good I guess
I like when we agree
I mentioned steak only ;) You're following the apostates teachings.

Why are you running away from answering me? ;)

No requirement for the death of Messiah or his blood on the altar. Why are you making things up?

Turn out the lights, the party's over, pack up your bags and say goodbye...
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American Gothic

Well-known member
No requirement for the death of Messiah or his blood on the altar (in the Mosaic law)
never said there was, yr point is moot

"Oh Odessa, goodbye Odessa
I will miss you so much
I will never forget you Farewell my friends
Let’s shout together Odessa mama, I love you so much!"


Well-known member
God definitely returns us to the land, etc., but a key is that He doesn't keep the commandments for us. We do.
you keep the commandants? that's an ERROR, no man has kept ... "ALL" of the commandants. no not one but Christ. for if you break one, then you have broken them all.

but thaks be unto God for the NT, which is the NEW covenant, and the righteousness of the Law of God is found in him, who believes that Christ the SAVIOUR of the World. for the law is not made for a righteous man. and that man's righteousness is only found in Christ JESUS, which is of God. and not of oneself. for self righteousness is a fools deam, supportive scriptures,

Romans 10:1 "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved."
Romans 10:2 "For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge."
Romans 10:3 "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."
Romans 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Romans 10:5 "For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them."
Romans 10:6 "But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)"
Romans 10:7 "Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)"
Romans 10:8 "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."Romans 10:10 "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Romans 10:11 "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."
Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."
Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?"
Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
Romans 10:19 "But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you."
Romans 10:20 "But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
Romans 10:21 "But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."

1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"
1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"