Two YHWH in the same verse.

Towerwatchman

Well-known member
Two YHWH in the same verse.


Implicit vs explicit. Read several post implicitly promoting the idea that more than one individual [in Scripture] is addressed as God. Since explicit trumps implicit, I submit the following. Below is Isaiah 44:6 were two individuals are identified as YHWH, = YHWH the King of Israel and YHWH the Lord of Host, both claiming to be First and Last and claiming singularity by addressing themselves as “Me”.

Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And His Redeemer, the Lord of host, :I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. {NKJV}

In the original “Lord” is translated from YHWH therefore this verse reads. “Thus says YHWH, the King of Israel, and His Redeemer, YHWH, Lord of host, I am the First and I am the Last, Besides Me the is no God.


כה thus --- אמר he said -- יהוה: Yahweh -- מלך king of-- ישׂראל: Israel-- ו: and-- גאל redeemer

הוא his/him-- יהוה: Yahweh of-- צבא hosts-- אני I-- ראשׁון first-- ו: and-- אני I-- אחרון: last—

ו: and--- מן from--- בלעדי: without-- אני me-- אין does not exist-- אלהים: God


Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,

כה thus אמר he said יהוה: Yahweh מלך king of ישׂראל : Israel


And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:

ו: and הוא his/him גאל redeemer יהוה : Yahweh of-- צבא hosts


‘I am the First and I am the Last;

אני I-- ראשׁון first-- ו: and-- אני I-- אחרון: last—


Besides Me there is no God

בלעדי: without-- אני me-- אין does not exist-- אלהים : God
 
I
Two YHWH in the same verse.


Implicit vs explicit. Read several post implicitly promoting the idea that more than one individual [in Scripture] is addressed as God. Since explicit trumps implicit, I submit the following. Below is Isaiah 44:6 were two individuals are identified as YHWH, = YHWH the King of Israel and YHWH the Lord of Host, both claiming to be First and Last and claiming singularity by addressing themselves as “Me”.

Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And His Redeemer, the Lord of host, :I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. {NKJV}

In the original “Lord” is translated from YHWH therefore this verse reads. “Thus says YHWH, the King of Israel, and His Redeemer, YHWH, Lord of host, I am the First and I am the Last, Besides Me the is no God.


כה thus --- אמר he said -- יהוה: Yahweh -- מלך king of-- ישׂראל: Israel-- ו: and-- גאל redeemer

הוא his/him-- יהוה: Yahweh of-- צבא hosts-- אני I-- ראשׁון first-- ו: and-- אני I-- אחרון: last—

ו: and--- מן from--- בלעדי: without-- אני me-- אין does not exist-- אלהים: God


Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,

כה thus אמר he said יהוה: Yahweh מלך king of ישׂראל : Israel


And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:

ו: and הוא his/him גאל redeemer יהוה : Yahweh of-- צבא hosts


‘I am the First and I am the Last;

אני I-- ראשׁון first-- ו: and-- אני I-- אחרון: last—


Besides Me there is no God

בלעדי: without-- אני me-- אין does not exist-- אלהים : God
Isaiah 44:6--This is what Jehovah has said, the king of Israel and the repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, I am the first and i am the last and beside me( singular, not we) there is no other God.
 
The Plurality Study

The following study is an interesting examination of theophanies. A theophany is an appearance of God. God appears in the Old Testament in different ways: as an angel of the Lord (Acts 7:30-32; Ex. 3:2; Judges 2:1), apparently in physical form (Gen. 3:8; Ex. 24:9-11), in visions and dreams (Num. 12:6-8), and in flame (Judges 13:20-21). However, there are verses that say that you can't see God: Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). If this is so, then is there a contradiction in the Bible? No, there isn't.
Study the following verses, read them in context in the Bible, and see if you can figure out what is going on. If you can't, continue reading and you'll be pleasantly surprised.
These verses are taken from the New American Standard Bible.

(Note: "LORD" is equivalent to YHWH, or Yahweh, or Jehovah, which is the name of God.)

Plurality of God:

Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness . . ."

Gen. 19:24, "Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven."

Amos 4:10-11, " I sent a plague among you after the manner of Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured horses, and I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; yet you have not returned to Me,' declares the LORD. I overthrew you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah . . . '"

Is. 44:6, "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me . . . " See also, Isaiah 48:16.

Appearances of God

Gen. 17:1, "Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; walk before Me, and be blameless."

Gen. 18:1, "Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day."

Exodus 6:2-3, "God spoke further to Moses and said to him, I am the LORD; and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I did not make myself known to them.'"

Exodus 24:9-11, "Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they beheld God, and they ate and drank."

Exodus 33:11, "Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend..."

Num. 12:6-8, "He [God] said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My household; with him I speak mouth to mouth, even openly, and not in dark sayings, and he beholds the form of the LORD . . . "

Acts 7:2, "And he [Stephen] said, "Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran. . . "

Can't see God:

Ex. 33:20, "But He [God] said, You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!'"

John 1:18, "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father; He has explained Him."

1 Tim. 6:16 "[God] who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see."

* John 6:46, "Not that any man has seen the Father except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father."



John 8:58, "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Exodus 3:14, "And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.'"

Zech. 12:10, "And I [God] will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, . . . "

It is evident above that God was seen. But, considering the "Can't-see-God" verses, some would understandably argue that people have not seen God; otherwise, there would be a contradiction in the Bible. A possible explanation for this is that people were seeing visions, or dreams, or the Angel of the LORD (Num. 22:22-26; Judges 13:1-21). But the problem is that the verses cited above do not say vision, dream, or Angel of the LORD. They say that people saw God (Exodus 24:9-11), that God was seen, and that He appeared as God Almighty (Exodus 6:2-3).
At first, this is difficult to understand. God Almighty was seen (Exodus 6:2-3) which means it was not the Angel of the Lord, for an angel is not God Almighty, and at least Moses saw God, not in a vision or dream, as the LORD Himself attests in Num. 12:6-8. If these verses mean what they say, then we naturally assume we have a contradiction. Actually, the contradiction exists in our understanding, not in the Bible--which is always the case with alleged biblical contradictions.
The solution is simple. All you need to do is accept what the Bible says. If the people of the OT were seeing God, the Almighty God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God Almighty, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I suggest that they were seeing the Word before He became incarnate. In other words, they were seeing Jesus; compare John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14 above.
If God is a Trinity, then John 1:18 is not a problem either because in John chapter one, John writes about the Word (Jesus) and God (the Father). In verse 14 it says the Word became flesh. In verse 18 it says no one has seen God. Since Jesus is the Word, God then, refers to the Father, and the apparent contradiction is easily resolved, especially when this is examined in the light of Jesus' words in John 6:46 where He said that no one has ever seen the Father. Therefore, Almighty God was seen, but not the Father. It was Jesus before His incarnation. There is more than one person in the Godhead and the doctrine of the Trinity must be true.
This is an interesting study to present to Jehovah's Witnesses. Since they deny the Trinity, they have to do a lot of fancy talking to explain away the theophanies. I've never yet met a J.W. who could adequately explain these verses.
 
THE NOUN 'ELOHIM' APPLIED TO TWO PERSONS

The word Elohim or God is often applied to two different Personalities within the same passage. In Psalms 45:6-7, the writer states:

Psalms 45:6-7 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Notice that the word 'God' is actually given to two different Persons within these two verses. He is addressing 'God', after addressing 'God', he says that another God had anointed this God with "the oil of gladness above thy fellows." It should be noted that in this verse the first Elohim is being addressed. The second Elohim is the God of the first Elohim. It is God's God Who has anointed Him with "the oil of gladness."

A second example is in Hosea 1:7:

Hosea 1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

In this passage, the speaker is Elohim or 'God' Who says He "will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them" by the instrumentality of Jehovah their Elohim or their God. In other words, Elohim or Person of God number one will save Israel by means of Elohim or Person of God number two!

Amos 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.

The Speaker, "the LORD" speaks of another Who is God as well "I have overthrown...as God overthrew S & G"!


THE NAME YHVH APPLIED TO TWO PERSONS

The Name of God, YHVH (often translated Jehovah) is applied to two different Persons in one passage of Scripture. The first example being Genesis 19:24:

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

In this verse, Jehovah Who was on earth rained down fire and brimstone from another referred to as Jehovah Who was in heaven. Jehovah (the pre-incarnate Christ) is on earth (He is the judge of all mankind). He is the One Who had appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18 and warned him of the coming destruction of Sodom. That Jehovah Who was on the earth was now raining judgment down on Sodom and Gomorrah from Jehovah Who was in heaven. The term 'Jehovah', God's personal Name, is used of two different Persons.

A second example is in Zechariah 2:8-9:

Zechariah 2:8-9 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.

This verse says that one Person referred to as Jehovah is the Speaker - "For thus saith the LORD of hosts..." and as He speaks He says that He is being sent to accomplish a task by another Person also referred to as Jehovah. Again, there Jehovah sending Jehovah to perform a specific task.

The evidence is overwhelming that the Being of God is plural and that He is a triune Being, revealed throughout the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments. I have just skimmed the very surface - other evidence that could be brought forward to prove the plurality within the Godhead:

1) The Plural Noun 'Adonai'
2) Plural Pronouns - eg. "Let US make man in OUR image" or "Come, let US go down"
3) Plural Adjectives - eg. Joshua 24:19 reads in English "holy God" but the adjective holy is a plural form which literally reads, "holy Gods"; Ecclesiastes 12:1 "...thy Creator" Again, the word 'Creator' in Hebrew is a plural adjective and literally reads, "thy Creators" In Genesis 33:20: "And he erected there an altar, and called it 'El-Elohe-Israel" 'El' is singular but 'Elohe' is the construct state of Elohim, a plural form. So it literally reads, "God, the Gods of Israel." But the fact that the singular is followed by the plural both in reference to the one true God emphasizes unity!
4) Theophanies - eg. The Angel of Jehovah

Even the Sh'ma (Deuteronomy 6:4), the essence of all forms of Judaism reads:

"Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah."

Where it reads "Jehovah our God", the Hebrew word for God is plural and literally reads, "our Gods."

He who has ears to hear, let him hear and understand the truth of God's Word and His revelation of Himself!


**The majority of the information above comes from 'Ariel Ministries', Manuscript # 50 entitled "The Trinity" by Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum -
see http://www.ariel.org/amds.htm to read more of his works**


Originally Posted by Praxeas
"...I have heard Trinitarians also say God is our Makers. How anyone though can get a trinity out of gods I don't know."


Joshua 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

A jealous God - In the Hebrew, He is the holy Gods, holy Father, holy Son, holy Spirit. He will not endure a partner in his worship; you can not serve him and idols together. (Wesley)

"In the English translations, plural adjectives appear as nouns, but in the Hebrew text, these words are Hebrew adjectives. The adjective "holy" is a plural form which literally reads in the Hebrew "holy Gods""

Psalms 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in (his maker): let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

"The adjective that is translated as "maker" is in Hebrew a plural so literally reads, "Let Israel rejoice in his Makers"

Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

"Again, the word "Creator" in Hebrew is a plural adjective and literally reads, "Remember now thy Creators..."

Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

"(This verse) has two examples. In English the verse reads, "thy Maker, thine husband". But both the term "Maker" and "husband" are in the Hebrew text plurals and literally read, "For thy Makers, thy Husbands" in reference to God.

This too emphasizes the concept of a plurality (within God)"

(the above verses quoted and subsequent commentary made by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish Hebrew scholar, Ariel Ministries)

 
The Plurality Study

The following study is an interesting examination of theophanies. A theophany is an appearance of God. God appears in the Old Testament in different ways: as an angel of the Lord (Acts 7:30-32; Ex. 3:2; Judges 2:1), apparently in physical form (Gen. 3:8; Ex. 24:9-11), in visions and dreams (Num. 12:6-8), and in flame (Judges 13:20-21). However, there are verses that say that you can't see God: Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). If this is so, then is there a contradiction in the Bible? No, there isn't.
Study the following verses, read them in context in the Bible, and see if you can figure out what is going on. If you can't, continue reading and you'll be pleasantly surprised.
These verses are taken from the New American Standard Bible.

(Note: "LORD" is equivalent to YHWH, or Yahweh, or Jehovah, which is the name of God.)

Plurality of God:

Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness . . ."

Gen. 19:24, "Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven."

Amos 4:10-11, " I sent a plague among you after the manner of Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured horses, and I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; yet you have not returned to Me,' declares the LORD. I overthrew you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah . . . '"

Is. 44:6, "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me . . . " See also, Isaiah 48:16.

Appearances of God

Gen. 17:1, "Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; walk before Me, and be blameless."

Gen. 18:1, "Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day."

Exodus 6:2-3, "God spoke further to Moses and said to him, I am the LORD; and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I did not make myself known to them.'"

Exodus 24:9-11, "Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they beheld God, and they ate and drank."

Exodus 33:11, "Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend..."

Num. 12:6-8, "He [God] said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My household; with him I speak mouth to mouth, even openly, and not in dark sayings, and he beholds the form of the LORD . . . "

Acts 7:2, "And he [Stephen] said, "Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran. . . "

Can't see God:

Ex. 33:20, "But He [God] said, You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!'"

John 1:18, "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father; He has explained Him."

1 Tim. 6:16 "[God] who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see."

* John 6:46, "Not that any man has seen the Father except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father."



John 8:58, "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Exodus 3:14, "And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.'"

Zech. 12:10, "And I [God] will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, . . . "

It is evident above that God was seen. But, considering the "Can't-see-God" verses, some would understandably argue that people have not seen God; otherwise, there would be a contradiction in the Bible. A possible explanation for this is that people were seeing visions, or dreams, or the Angel of the LORD (Num. 22:22-26; Judges 13:1-21). But the problem is that the verses cited above do not say vision, dream, or Angel of the LORD. They say that people saw God (Exodus 24:9-11), that God was seen, and that He appeared as God Almighty (Exodus 6:2-3).
At first, this is difficult to understand. God Almighty was seen (Exodus 6:2-3) which means it was not the Angel of the Lord, for an angel is not God Almighty, and at least Moses saw God, not in a vision or dream, as the LORD Himself attests in Num. 12:6-8. If these verses mean what they say, then we naturally assume we have a contradiction. Actually, the contradiction exists in our understanding, not in the Bible--which is always the case with alleged biblical contradictions.
The solution is simple. All you need to do is accept what the Bible says. If the people of the OT were seeing God, the Almighty God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God Almighty, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I suggest that they were seeing the Word before He became incarnate. In other words, they were seeing Jesus; compare John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14 above.
If God is a Trinity, then John 1:18 is not a problem either because in John chapter one, John writes about the Word (Jesus) and God (the Father). In verse 14 it says the Word became flesh. In verse 18 it says no one has seen God. Since Jesus is the Word, God then, refers to the Father, and the apparent contradiction is easily resolved, especially when this is examined in the light of Jesus' words in John 6:46 where He said that no one has ever seen the Father. Therefore, Almighty God was seen, but not the Father. It was Jesus before His incarnation. There is more than one person in the Godhead and the doctrine of the Trinity must be true.
This is an interesting study to present to Jehovah's Witnesses. Since they deny the Trinity, they have to do a lot of fancy talking to explain away the theophanies. I've never yet met a J.W. who could adequately explain these verses.
Let us( YHWH(Jehovah) and his( Prov 8) master worker( Jesus) make man in our image.
Hebrew scholars say no that does not translate - i am that i am. Its a misleading error only found in altered translations.
No man has ever seen God.
 
Let us( YHWH(Jehovah) and his( Prov 8) master worker( Jesus) make man in our image.
Hebrew scholars say no that does not translate - i am that i am. Its a misleading error only found in altered translations.
No man has ever seen God.
No, God created man in His image - not the God and a god created man in their image. The Persons of the Trinity spoke amongst Themselves when They said "Let US create man in OUR image..." Verse 27 says "So GOD created man in His image..." The Creator of ALL things is the eternal Word/Son, Jesus Christ. Your (per)version says Jesus created all (other) things 4 or 5 times in Colossians 1 - they brazenly & blasphemously add the word 'other' in brackets that is NOT in the Greek!!!

Jesus said in John 6:46 "no man has seen THE FATHER" not that "no man has ever seen God" The Old Testament is replete with instances where men/women seen God -

 
No, God created man in His image - not the God and a god created man in their image. The Persons of the Trinity spoke amongst Themselves when They said "Let US create man in OUR image..." Verse 27 says "So GOD created man in His image..." The Creator of ALL things is the eternal Word/Son, Jesus Christ. Your (per)version says Jesus created all (other) things 4 or 5 times in Colossians 1 - they brazenly & blasphemously add the word 'other' in brackets that is NOT in the Greek!!!

Jesus said in John 6:46 "no man has seen THE FATHER" not that "no man has ever seen God" The Old Testament is replete with instances where men/women seen God -

God created all things, He created 99.9% of them through Jesus-Coll 1:15,16. He created his master worker( Jesus) direct-first and last-Prov 8:22-25--Gods master worker= the one who was beside God during creation-Gods master worker gives 100% credit to God at Prov 8.
 
I

Isaiah 44:6--This is what Jehovah has said, the king of Israel and the repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, I am the first and i am the last and beside me( singular, not we) there is no other God.
Isaiah 41

1 Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to judgment. 2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. 3 He pursued them, and passed safely; even by the way that he had not gone with his feet. 4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.



Isaiah 44

6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.



Isaiah 48

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.



Revelation 1

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”



17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.



Revelation 2

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;



Revelation 22

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.



20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
 
Isaiah 41

1 Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to judgment. 2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. 3 He pursued them, and passed safely; even by the way that he had not gone with his feet. 4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.



Isaiah 44

6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.



Isaiah 48

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.



Revelation 1

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”



17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.



Revelation 2

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;



Revelation 22

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.



20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Jesus is first and last in many things, but he is not God. Jesus is coming( Rev 6:1,2-Rev 19:11)-- but it is his Fathers will that makes it so. The Father has the power, the only power source. So in that way The Father is coming as well-his will and power.
 
Jesus is first and last in many things, but he is not God. Jesus is coming( Rev 6:1,2-Rev 19:11)-- but it is his Fathers will that makes it so. The Father has the power, the only power source. So in that way The Father is coming as well-his will and power.
:)Could you explain how the First and Last died and came back to life?:)

Rev 1:
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Revelation 2

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
 
:)Could you explain how the First and Last died and came back to life?:)

Rev 1:
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Revelation 2

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
God resurrected him after 3 days in the grave( Hades)--Romans 8:11
 
I just showed you that it was God who resurrected Jesus. Jesus was dead.
Only Jesus' body was dead not his Spirit or soul

John 2:
18 The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”

19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and
I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword,
piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart
 
Last edited:
Only Jesus' body was dead not his Spirit or soul

John 2:
18 The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”

19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and
I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:

12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart
There is no Ghost like creature living within one. Man became a living soul, not has a living soul-Genesis 2:7)-- The spirit of one = all that makes that person who they are, in Gods remembrance.
 
There is no Ghost like creature living within one. Man became a living soul, not has a living soul-Genesis 2:7)-- The spirit of one = all that makes that person who they are, in Gods remembrance.
:)Could you give me scripture that teaches that ?:)

Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart
 
:)Could you give me scripture that teaches that ?:)

Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart
On the day of ones death all thought stops. Eccl 9:10--All that your hand find to do, do with your very power, for there is no work, nor devising, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in Sheol( Hades) the place to where you are going( at death)
 
Let us( YHWH(Jehovah) and his( Prov 8) master worker( Jesus) make man in our image.
Hebrew scholars say no that does not translate - i am that i am. Its a misleading error only found in altered translations.
No man has ever seen God.
Proverbs 8 is not Jesus
 
Proverbs 8 is not Jesus

Many men saw Jehovah, just not God the Father

“Moses and Aaron, Nahab and Abihu, and seventy of the Elders went up and saw God of Israel under his feet was something like pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky it self, but God did not raise his hand against these leaders of Israelites, they saw God, and they ate and drank,” Exodus 24:9-11

“at this point the men turned from there way to Sodom but as for JEHOVAH he was standing still before Abraham….then JEHOVAH went his way when he had finished speaking to Abraham.” Genesis 18:22-33 New World Translation Genesis 18:2 GOD Genesis 18:1,3,13,14,17,20,22,26,27,31,32 and 33
says three men appeared to Abraham, two are identified as angels {Genesis 19:1} ONE IS IDENTIFIED AS JEHOVAH

Genesis 19: 27

Now Abraham got up early in the morning and went to the place where he had stood before Jehovah

Exodus 6:2 Then God said to Moses: “I am Jehovah. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, but with regard to my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them.


Numbers 12: 6 He then said: “Hear my words, please. If there was a prophet of Jehovah among you, I would make myself known to him in a vision, and I would speak to him in a dream.+ 7 But it is not that way with my servant Moses! He is being entrusted with all my house. 8 Face-to-face* I speak to him, openly, not by riddles; and the appearance of Jehovah is what he sees. Why, then, did you not fear to speak against my servant, against Moses?”
 
Proverbs 8 is not Jesus
you are right-It was Michael=Gods master worker, The one beside God during the creation process. It was Michael God sent to the earth and was named Jesus as a mortal. Only the one whom God created all other things through deserves the title-Gods master worker.
 
Back
Top