Types and Antitype

Water was OT type. Holy Spirit is the new anti-type.

Confusion happens when we read the mistakes of Peter while he was yet learning the revolutionary new way for the Church. Peter continued with the mindset he had as a Jew in regards to water baptism. After all, the disciples of Jesus were water baptizing more converts than even John the Baptist. So, it was seen as normal as brushing our teeth to Peter.

Peter started off in a confused status. Here were gentile converts who were overtly baptized by the Spirit, but Peter faithfully persisted with what he knew - water baptism.

Jesus even told them before the church age began that water was to be replaced by the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:5 tells us that is true!
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Those words slipped Peter's mind because of all the excitement going on around him, and it took till the eleventh chapter of Acts that Peter finally put it all together and changed his thinking in regards to water baptism. It was an understandable mistake considering all the wonder and newness that had been bombarding the newly born Church with.

“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will
be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ Acts 11:15-16​
Peter had been ministering up to then, in part, according to the old way.

Too many will follow what they read without understanding! Its where we end up getting into trouble with the truth, and turn the NT into obedience to Law ,rather than grace guided understanding as we should be!

Water baptism was for then. Its not for today. Holy Spirit baptism is central and the heart of the enabling power for the Church to live within!


grace and peace! .......
Interesting viewpoint, this is new to me. Will need to mull over this.
Do you hold to the scriptures being infallible?
So I guess what I am asking is where Peter penned his misunderstandings, is that a fallibility of scripture?
 
Interesting viewpoint, this is new to me. Will need to mull over this.
Do you hold to the scriptures being infallible?
So I guess what I am asking is where Peter penned his misunderstandings, is that a fallibility of scripture?

Scriptures are infallible. Translations are not. Men are not as well. All err somewhere. The body of Christ is a system of checks and balances.

Here is a great source for better understanding why things were written as they had been, and what it will mean for us within our frame of reference for today... https://rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

grace and peace .....
 
Interesting viewpoint, this is new to me. Will need to mull over this.
Do you hold to the scriptures being infallible?
So I guess what I am asking is where Peter penned his misunderstandings, is that a fallibility of scripture?


Why is it fallibility of Scripture?

The Scripture is being true about the fallibility of Peter!

For we all have a bit of Peter in all of us! We must learn to face our mistakes quickly and to accept corrections when they come from God. We all must face times like that! Its the rigidity of denominations and religion who are our enemy.
Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but whoever hates correction is stupid."


Proverbs 12:1​
 
Why is it fallibility of Scripture?

The Scripture is being true about the fallibility of Peter!

For we all have a bit of Peter in all of us! We must learn to face our mistakes quickly and to accept corrections when they come from God. We all must face times like that! Its the rigidity of denominations and religion who are our enemy.
Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but whoever hates correction is stupid."


Proverbs 12:1​
Yea, I know I am wrong most of the time, lol.
I am not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand your understanding.

I am thankful that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name! But I did baptize the household of Stephanas also; beyond that, I do not know if I baptized anyone else. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made of no effect.

So Paul was not sent to Baptize, but to Preach the Gospel. But when He baptized the household of Stephanas, was that a water Baptism?
And if so then was Paul wrong to do that?
I guess my question is, is water baptism totally gone?
I can understand the view that says you should get Water Baptized but its not needed for salvation.
I can understand the view that says you must be Water Baptized to be saved.
Maybe I am wrong but your view seems to relegate Water Baptism to a OT thing only.
Is that correct?
 
Yea, I know I am wrong most of the time, lol.
I am not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand your understanding.

I am thankful that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name! But I did baptize the household of Stephanas also; beyond that, I do not know if I baptized anyone else. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made of no effect.

So Paul was not sent to Baptize, but to Preach the Gospel. But when He baptized the household of Stephanas, was that a water Baptism?
And if so then was Paul wrong to do that?
I guess my question is, is water baptism totally gone?
I can understand the view that says you should get Water Baptized but its not needed for salvation.
I can understand the view that says you must be Water Baptized to be saved.
Maybe I am wrong but your view seems to relegate Water Baptism to a OT thing only.
Is that correct?


Christians who become born again come out of the Divine womb and must suck for spiritual milk while crying till we can.

Like an infant we come out dumb and must first learn how to speak Divine viewpoint.

We are literally born into a new spiritual reality and must learn a new way of thinking.

We all start off dumb. The Humble accept this. The proud want to climb back into their old sense of self esteem.

I once hear a pastor explain what he though the word humble means. In one word? "Correctable."

grace and peace .........
 
Christians who become born again come out of the Divine womb and must suck for spiritual milk while crying till we can.

Like an infant we come out dumb and must first learn how to speak Divine viewpoint.

We are literally born into a new spiritual reality and must learn a new way of thinking.

We all start off dumb. The Humble accept this. The proud want to climb back into their old sense of self esteem.

I once hear a pastor explain what he though the word humble means. In one word? "Correctable."

grace and peace .........
I have no beef with that, but you haven't answered my questions.
When Paul baptized the household of Stephanas, was that Water Baptism?
If so was Paul wrong to do that?
Is Water Baptism totally gone in the NT era?
 
I have no beef with that, but you haven't answered my questions.
When Paul baptized the household of Stephanas, was that Water Baptism?
If so was Paul wrong to do that?
Is Water Baptism totally gone in the NT era?
They were coming out of the "old way" that was ingrained in their psuche.

They needed to learn the new way to replace the old way.

That took a while to settle.

Here is your answer.

One that they needed to learn as well. And, made mistakes until it finally sunk in.

The following took place after Jesus revealed himself following his resurrection.
Keep in mind. The disciples were in a state of shock and excitement while listening to the Lord's words spoken.
For that reason their concentration was wandering somewhat for them at that time.


On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you
have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days
you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​

John's baptism was to be replaced with the new way of life in Christ. Why don't some pastors teach it? Some do. Some see what is being said.


For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

They were told what was to happen. Their recall took time as they settled into the revolutionary new spiritual life which came to them to replace the Law.

John the Baptist even was telling them what was to come...


John wore clothing made of camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist,
and he ate locusts and wild honey. And this was his message: “After me comes
the one more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to
stoop down and untie. I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with
the Holy Spirit.” Matthew 1:6-8​

Who were you being baptized by when you believed in Christ? It happened anyway if you knew it or not!

Now ask yourself.. Why has it taken so long to understand this?

Once you can answer correctly? Then you can understand why those in the early church had a problem adjusting for that which will take time to sink in. It requires a total readjustment in our thinking by learning more and more truth!

We all made mistakes when immersed into the Christian way of life. Misconceptions that need to be transformed by the Word of God!


On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you
have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days
you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​
That actually answers your question. That is, unless you want to discuss how it took some time for Paul and Peter to adjust to the new way of thinking that became suddenly required for walking in the new way of Life in Christ.

And, yes. Many still in our day are confused over this issue.
For many feel a need in their flesh to be doing something, rather than learning to become something by grace!

Law = do this! Do that!
Grace and truth = you will be made able to become this, to become that.

grace and peace ........
 
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They were coming out of the "old way" that was ingrained in their psuche.

They needed to learn the new way to replace the old way.

That took a while to settle.

Here is your answer.

One that they needed to learn as well. And, made mistakes until it finally sunk in.

The following took place after Jesus revealed himself following his resurrection.
Keep in mind. The disciples were in a state of shock and excitement while listening to the Lord's words spoken.
For that reason their concentration was wandering somewhat for them at that time.


On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you
have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days
you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​

John's baptism was to be replaced with the new way of life in Christ. Why don't some pastors teach it? Some do. Some see what is being said.


For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

They were told what was to happen. Their recall took time as they settled into the revolutionary new spiritual life which came to them to replace the Law.

John the Baptist even was telling them what was to come...


John wore clothing made of camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist,
and he ate locusts and wild honey. And this was his message: “After me comes
the one more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to
stoop down and untie. I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with
the Holy Spirit.” Matthew 1:6-8​

Who were you being baptized by when you believed in Christ? It happened anyway if you knew it or not!

Now ask yourself.. Why has it taken so long to understand this?

Once you can answer correctly? Then you can understand why those in the early church had a problem adjusting for that which will take time to sink in. It requires a total readjustment in our thinking by learning more and more truth!

We all made mistakes when immersed into the Christian way of life. Misconceptions that need to be transformed by the Word of God!


On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you
have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days
you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​
That actually answers your question. That is, unless you want to discuss how it took some time for Paul and Peter to adjust to the new way of thinking that became suddenly required for walking in the new way of Life in Christ.

And, yes. Many still in our day are confused over this issue.
For many feel a need in their flesh to be doing something, rather than learning to become something by grace!

Law = do this! Do that!
Grace and truth = you will be made able to become this, to become that.

grace and peace ........
So your view is that it's okay to baptize with Water but not needed, Correct?

Ephesians 4:5-6
" one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."

The one Baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Since John the Baptist is saying that Water Baptism is inferior to Spiritual Baptism.
 
So your view is that it's okay to baptize with Water but not needed, Correct?

Ephesians 4:5-6
" one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."

The one Baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Since John the Baptist is saying that Water Baptism is inferior to Spiritual Baptism.

While yet in ignorance on the matter? If one insists? Be water baptized to get it out of the way.

I know I wanted to be water baptized soon as possible after reading the accounts.

But, after gaining understanding later on? I reflected, and saw how their ignorance was like my own.
Then I identified with Peter and Paul in a new way. That we all are human needed to grow by grace in knowledge.
It made me able to not condemn myself. When discovering that I was dead wrong about what I saw a doing a good thing.

It also taught me another big lesson on how our feelings can at times mislead when something seems so right at the time.


There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." (dead works)
Proverbs 14:12​
grace and peace!
 
While yet in ignorance on the matter? If one insists? Be water baptized to get it out of the way.

I know I wanted to be water baptized soon as possible after reading the accounts.

But, after gaining understanding later on? I reflected, and saw how their ignorance was like my own.
Then I identified with Peter and Paul in a new way. That we all are human needed to grow by grace in knowledge.
It made me able to not condemn myself. When discovering that I was dead wrong about what I saw a doing a good thing.

It also taught me another big lesson on how our feelings can at times mislead when something seems so right at the time.


There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." (dead works)
Proverbs 14:12​
grace and peace!
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

?
 
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

?
Baptizing to the ancients also could mean to be immersed into identification with something or someone.

And, to add to even more word usage as understood back then? The word "name" could also mean "the person."

So when we are to be baptized into the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? "Name" held a meaning we often fail to grasp. Unless God raises up someone to study and teach these things, we will walk around never knowing. God has raised up a few teachers for our generation that believers will find if they remain seeking and being filled with the Holy Spirit. But Jesus said the road to destruction is broad and wide... That many will not want to find the needed understanding required to overcome the evils of their day.. So be it.
 
So your view is that it's okay to baptize with Water but not needed, Correct?

Ephesians 4:5-6
" one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."


The one Baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Since John the Baptist is saying that Water Baptism is inferior to Spiritual Baptism.
Paul isn’t talking about Holy Spirit baptism here. If the “one baptism” mentioned here was indeed “Holy Spirit baptism”, then he would’ve wrote that.
 
Paul isn’t talking about Holy Spirit baptism here. If the “one baptism” mentioned here was indeed “Holy Spirit baptism”, then he would’ve wrote that.

Where is your reasoning on that one?

All have been baptized by the Spirit.

The idiotic Pentecostals are there to try and confuse us on the matter.

But, all have been baptized by the Spirit when they know they are saved.


For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and, have been all made to drink into one Spirit."


1 Corinthians 12:13​

Many knew they have been saved before they ever took water. For all had been baptized by the Spirit.... even unawares!


" One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."

Ephesians 4:5-6​


Well? You want it to say, "two baptisms?"

Keep in mind. A double minded man is unstable.

In Christ ............
 
Holy Spirit baptism was a miraculous work which Yhoshua had spoken on previously which would fulfill and indicate the coming of the Kingdom. It was accompanied with verifiable signs, and only the Apostles could even directly pass it to others. There's way less examples of this in scripture even occurring since it is a rare thing. Why would this be the "one baptism" that Christians today are commanded to receive? And where was it during the numerous other examples of conversion like the Ethiopian eunich?
 
So your view is that it's okay to baptize with Water but not needed, Correct?

Ephesians 4:5-6
" one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."

The one Baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Since John the Baptist is saying that Water Baptism is inferior to Spiritual Baptism.
Ephesians 4:5 - There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37 for the word drink(s). The two elements found in the new birth (John 3:5) are living water and the Spirit (Who is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing).
 
Holy Spirit baptism was a miraculous work which Yhoshua had spoken on previously which would fulfill and indicate the coming of the Kingdom. It was accompanied with verifiable signs, and only the Apostles could even directly pass it to others. There's way less examples of this in scripture even occurring since it is a rare thing. Why would this be the "one baptism" that Christians today are commanded to receive? And where was it during the numerous other examples of conversion like the Ethiopian eunich?



Some fail to differentiate between the INITIAL introduction of the baptism of the Spirit, as witnessed to the sign gifts at Pentecost.

But, do all speak in tongues? No. Only some did.

Do the Scriptures say? Are all baptized by the same Spirit? Yes...

So if there is only one baptism? And, if the baptism were the early sign gifts?

Then it can not be said that all have been baptized by one Spirit. For not all speak in tongues, nor manifest other sign gifts.

Look again! ALL have been given the same baptism!



For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and, have been all made to drink into one Spirit."


1 Corinthians 12:13

It must make sense Scripturally.

Those who think the Spirit baptism was only for Pentecost and the early church? They can not properly explain 1 Corinthians 12:13.
Did all speak in tongues? No. Yet it says that all have been baptized into the Body of Christ by the same Spirit!

grace and peace ...........
 
All have been baptized by the Spirit.

The idiotic Pentecostals are there to try and confuse us on the matter.

But, all have been baptized by the Spirit when they know they are saved.


For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and, have been all made to drink into one Spirit."


1 Corinthians 12:13​

Many knew they have been saved before they ever took water. For all had been baptized by the Spirit.... even unawares!
There's no reason to assume the baptism Paul referenced in 1 Corinthians 12:13 is one done without water, neither that the audience he's addressing was saved before that. That's beside the point of why he even mentioned baptism in the first place though. He's not discussing salvation here; he's explaining the oneness they share in light of them having a diverse set of spiritual gifts and different backgrounds. Different topic.

Well? You want it to say, "two baptisms?"

It says one baptism. I accept that. But you haven't convinced me that you understand what that one is.

There's actually THREE kinds of baptism we can read about. You forget about John's baptism of repentance.

Not only that, we also read in scripture where some of the early church actually experienced all three of them (John's baptism into repentance, Holy Spirit baptism with power and baptism into Yhoshua). I challenge you to find it.

Those who think the Spirit baptism was only for Pentecost and the early church? They can not properly explain 1 Corinthians 12:13.
Did all speak in tongues? No. Yet it says that all have been baptized into the Body of Christ by the same Spirit!

grace and peace ...........
I just summarized the context surrounding 1 Corinthians 12:13 above though, where you left the context out.

And what seem to be the issue here is that not only are you conflating Holy Spirit baptism (ex: Acts 1:5) with the baptism mentioned in 1 Corinthians but you conflate the reason for both, how they are received and also the outcomes of both. The baptism mentioned in Acts 1:5 did not involve water, was involuntary, and was received from on high with power, to guide into all the truth (John 16:13). The baptism believers receive today involves water, is done willingly, and puts us into the body, for remission of sins (Acts 2:38). All these are work done BY the Spirit which is the influencer and operator behind them all. If we had the same baptism of Acts 1:5, then we would be able to recite the Bible front to back without thinking, and this would be an entirely different conversation. lol.

So now you tell me which baptism of the three I named is the 'one baptism' referenced in Ephesians 4:5 that believers are commanded to receive today?

I hope this helps, but I'll wait to see how you answer.
 
There's no reason to assume the baptism Paul referenced in 1 Corinthians 12:13 is one done without water, neither that the audience he's addressing was saved before that. That's beside the point of why he even mentioned baptism in the first place though. He's not discussing salvation here; he's explaining the oneness they share in light of them having a diverse set of spiritual gifts and different backgrounds. Different topic.



It says one baptism. I accept that. But you haven't convinced me that you understand what that one is.

There's actually THREE kinds of baptism we can read about. You forget about John's baptism of repentance.

Not only that, we also read in scripture where some of the early church actually experienced all three of them (John's baptism into repentance, Holy Spirit baptism with power and baptism into Yhoshua). I challenge you to find it.


I just summarized the context surrounding 1 Corinthians 12:13 above though, where you left the context out.

And what seem to be the issue here is that not only are you conflating Holy Spirit baptism (ex: Acts 1:5) with the baptism mentioned in 1 Corinthians but you conflate the reason for both, how they are received and also the outcomes of both. The baptism mentioned in Acts 1:5 did not involve water, was involuntary, and was received from on high with power, to guide into all the truth (John 16:13). The baptism believers receive today involves water, is done willingly, and puts us into the body, for remission of sins (Acts 2:38). All these are work done BY the Spirit which is the influencer and operator behind them all. If we had the same baptism of Acts 1:5, then we would be able to recite the Bible front to back without thinking, and this would be an entirely different conversation. lol.

So now you tell me which baptism of the three I named is the 'one baptism' referenced in Ephesians 4:5 that believers are commanded to receive today?

I hope this helps, but I'll wait to see how you answer.
OK....

See you later!

Its not for me to convince you. Its only for me to show you what you fail to see.

Until then....

grace and peace .....
 
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