Ukraine Nazi Azov Batallion Surrenders Mariupol Steel Plant

[Theophilos]

How do you explain the fact that Russia gave up trying to take Kyiv and more recently Kharkiv?

I note you fail to provide links showing destroyed military equipment is Ukrainian, and fail to explain the fact that observers estimate that Russia has lost 1/3 of their fighting force.

It was initially expected that Ukraine would fall within days of the Russian invasion. That this has not happened, and that Russia has retreated from various objectives suggest that the reports we are getting are accurate.

Kyiv and Kharkiv were never specifically included on the Russian list of objectives. Here is the official press release from TASS:

On the morning of February 24, Russia officially launched a "special military operation" against Ukraine, designed, as Russian President Vladimir Putin explained, to "demilitarize" and "denazify" the neighboring state. The goal of the operation is to protect the people of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR), he said . . . So far, the question of when the DPR and LPR will liberate their territories within the borders of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, as written in their Constitutions, remains open, Nezavisimaya Gazeta writes. "For Russia, it is extremely important to liberate not only Donbass from the occupying forces of the Kiev regime, but also the entire left bank of Ukraine, as well as its Black Sea regions. Dnepr, Zaporozhye, Mariupol, Odessa, Ochakov, Nikolaev, Kherson, and other cities that have industrial and defense enterprises essential to the Russian Federation. If they are controlled by Moscow, this means that Russia has defeated the West and taken its Slavic partner out of the sphere of influence of the United States and NATO," retired military expert Colonel Nikolay Shulgin told Nezavisimaya Gazeta.

https://tass.com/pressreview/1410663

Likewise the media have presented ridiculous timetables and then claim that the Russians are losing when they do not meet them.

Washington and Kiev are winning the disinformation war but not much else.

 

[rossum]

Kyiv and Kharkiv were never specifically included on the Russian list of objectives.

Ah... So the Russian Generals commanding the troops driving towards those two cities were disobeying orders, and should have been somewhere else entirely.

Very careless of Putin not to notice that his troops were in Belorussia months before the invasion waiting to drive south to Kyiv.

Oh yes, if you want to make it less obvious that you are regurgitating Kremlin propaganda you should spell the city as "Kyiv" not "Kiev". Or would doing that get you 15 months in the Gulag?

 

[Theophilos]

So far, Russia's military has been embarrassed on the world stage. That you think they have not responded by sending in their best troops, arms and tactical experts is unlikely. They clearly don't have what it takes to subdue Ukraine.

Yes, that is the party line from Kiev and Washington.

If that is true, then why did Secretary Austin call his Russian counterpart and ask for an immediate cease fire a few days ago? Is he a Putin pawn?

Even Boris Johnson admitted that the Russian use of massive artillery pounding is grinding down the Ukrainian forces, and Putin may well win. He made his remarks in India a few ago, but they were not widely reported in the UK and US media.

During a press conference in India Friday, the prime minister was asked about comments from Western officials, who suggested Putin was "still in a position to win," despite making strategic blunders, and whether the war could run on until the end of 2023.

Johnson said: "The sad thing is, that is a realistic possibility.

"Putin has a huge army. He has a very difficult political position because he's made a catastrophic blunder. The only option he now has really is to continue to try to use his his appalling, grinding approach — led by artillery — trying to grind the Ukrainians down. And he's very close to securing a land bridge in Mariupol."

Boris Johnson admits 'realistic possibility' that Russia could win the war in Ukraine, and that it may last until the end of 2023

www.msn.com

 

[vibise]

Yes, that is the party line from Kiev and Washington.

If that is true, then why did Secretary Austin call his Russian counterpart and ask for an immediate cease fire a few days ago? Is he a Putin pawn?

Even Boris Johnson admitted that the Russian use of massive artillery pounding is grinding down the Ukrainian forces, and Putin may well win. He made his remarks in India a few ago, but they were not widely reported in the UK and US media.

Of course, Russia, the larger country, may well win, and that would be a terrible, disastrous outcome.

 

[Theophilos]

Ah... So the Russian Generals commanding the troops driving towards those two cities were disobeying orders, and should have been somewhere else entirely.

Very careless of Putin not to notice that his troops were in Belorussia months before the invasion waiting to drive south to Kyiv.

Oh yes, if you want to make it less obvious that you are regurgitating Kremlin propaganda you should spell the city as "Kyiv" not "Kiev". Or would doing that get you 15 months in the Gulag?

Yes, and Sadaam Husein prevented the US amphibious assault in Kuwait.

Schwarzkopf's War Plan Based on Deception

The battle plan for vanquishing the Iraqi army mapped out by Gen. H.

www.latimes.com

The Russian advances toward Kiev and Kharkiv forced the Ukrainians to divert from Donbass, which is where most of the real fighting has been going on.

The Russians have avoided urban warfare in large cities. They took Kherson with little opposition. The exception has been the attack on Mariupol, which took out the headquarters of the Azov Battalion.

 

[Theophilos]

Of course, Russia, the larger country, may well win, and that would be a terrible, disastrous outcome.

The struggle between Washington and Moscow leaves no good alternatives for Ukrainians. They can live under a fascist dictatorship from a puppet regime in Kiev or under authoritarian rule under Putin's Russia.

The war has little to do about freedom and democracy. It is more about profits for the US military-industrial complex and who controls the resources.

 

[rossum]

The struggle between Washington and Moscow leaves no good alternatives for Ukrainians. They can live under a fascist dictatorship from a puppet regime in Kiev or under authoritarian rule under Putin's Russia.

The war has little to do about freedom and democracy. It is more about profits for the US military-industrial complex and who controls the resources.

Obvious Kremlin propaganda is obvious.

How is the weather in Tomsk today?

 

[Theophilos]

Exactly the mirror image of what has happened in Russia. From "war, what war?" through "the special. Military operation is proceeding exactly as planned" to "if we continue like this, we are all doomed." Russian commentators on Russian TV think Putin is losing, and you don't? Your loyalty to Putin does you credit.

Russian hardliners are concerned that the massive spending from the US may eventually have some influence on the war.

Putin may well ramp up operations if he believes that a negotiated settlement is not possible.

Kremlin hardliners and the Special Military Operation

Kremlin hardliners and the Special Military Operation The Duran: Episode 1282

rumble.com

Obvious Kremlin propaganda is obvious.

How is the weather in Tomsk today?

How is the weather in Langley or is it Foggy Bottom?

 

[rossum]

How is the weather in Langley or is it Foggy Bottom?

Afraid to answer my question? The weather in London has been good this afternoon, though the morning was a bit cloudy.

 

[Truth7t7]

Still pushing the Russian propaganda I see. Careful, even mainstream Russian media has started showing criticism of how the war is going, presumably to prepare the public for the humiliation that is to come.
Virtually everything you say here is not just untrue but a grotesque, distorted, mirror image of the truth. Massive human rights abuses and war crimes have been carried out... by the Russians. Overwhelming evidence for which has been obtained by... Ukrainian forces pushing the hapless and hopeless Russians into retreat.

Putin started this war with the aim of taking the whole of Ukraine, removing the elected government and replacing it with a puppet regime and absorbing the entire Donbas region into Russia. After all this time, and having lost up to a third of his combat troops, western Ukraine including Kyiv is safe, Kharkiv is safe, Odessa is safe, Ukraine forces are able to shell Russian supply lines, in Russia. Putin's ambitions have been reduced to seizing a portion of Eastern Donbas. The "liberated" Mariupol has been destroyed. The defenders of the steel plant have changed the course of the war, such that the question now is just how much of a humiliation of Russian supposed military might will this be. And there remains up to 1000 Ukrainian fighters, still in the steel works, still tying down Russian resources.

Western MSM in propaganda, just your one claim stating 33% of Russian troops killed, that being 65,000+ is "Laughable"

5,000 Russian troops killed would be a big overstatement, 1/40 of the original 200,000 at the start in 2/24/20222

Even NATO'S estimated 15,000 is a mere 8% of 200,000 a far cry from your claim of one-third, 65,000 or 33%

Putin has 87% approval in Russia, the entire Donbas will soon be under Russian control, with Odessa not being far behind, then Kiev will be surrounded

NewsWeek Article 5/18/2022
NATO estimated that up to 15,000 Russian troops have already died in Ukraine in the last three months of war. Ukrainian authorities report a much higher number, estimating the number of fallen Russian troops as of Wednesday at over 28,000. Russian authorities have reported just 1,500 casualties in Ukraine in their latest release.

 

[Theophilos]

Western MSM in propaganda, just your one claim stating 33% of Russian troops killed, that being 65,000+ is "Laughable"

5,000 Russian troops killed would be a big overstatement

Putin has 87% approval in Russia, the entire Donbas will soon be under Russian control, with Odessa not being far behind, then Kiev will be surrounded

NewsWeek Article 5/18/2022
NATO estimated that up to 15,000 Russian troops have already died in Ukraine in the last three months of war. Ukrainian authorities report a much higher number, estimating the number of fallen Russian troops as of Wednesday at over 28,000. Russian authorities have reported just 1,500 casualties in Ukraine in their latest release.

Yes, the western media has been like the old Get Smart schtick, "Would you believe . . . ?"

Meanwhile the true scale of the Ukrainian surrender in Azovstal is gradually trickling out into the western media.

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, the western media has been like the old Get Smart schtick, "Would you believe . . . ?"

Meanwhile the true scale of the Ukrainian surrender in Azovstal is gradually trickling out into the western media.

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Yeah Zero Hedge has it correct, its a full surrender, the wounded were removed first,and the rest followed

Yes Ukraine and the liberal MSM are the last to report the facts

Nobody is left at the steel plant, its a full surrender, and victory for Russia

 

[mikeT]

Yeah Zero Hedge has it correct

ZeroHedge

CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence.

mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[Truth7t7]

ZeroHedge

CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence.

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Your (Media Bias Fact Check) Has The (New York Times) As "High" Regarding Factual Reporting?​

​

That's A Fake News Lie!​

​

New York Times​

 

[mikeT]

Your (Media Bias Fact Check) Has The (New York Times) As "High" Regarding Factual Reporting?

That's A Fake News Lie!

According to you?

Doesn't change the fact that you get your news from a Bulgarian source of the fake stuff.

Pity.

 

[mikeT]

U.S. Accuses Zero Hedge of Spreading Russian Propaganda

Officials said the website published articles created by Moscow-controlled media that were then shared by outlets and people unaware of their nexus to Russian intelligence.

www.bloomberg.com

ZeroHedge Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media

Ad Fontes Media rates ZeroHedge, an online financial blog featuring anonymous original content, as skews right in terms of bias and mixed reliability ...

adfontesmedia.com

Finance blog Zero Hedge was banned from Twitter for Wuhan coronavirus misinformation. It's not the first time the publication has raised eyebrows.

The financial blog that rose to popularity in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis has since been labeled "far-right" and "pro-Trump."

www.businessinsider.com

It's sad that anyone would parrot their stories as credible or informative...

 

[Temujin]

Western MSM in propaganda, just your one claim stating 33% of Russian troops killed, that being 65,000+ is "Laughable"

5,000 Russian troops killed would be a big overstatement, 1/40 of the original 200,000 at the start in 2/24/20222

Even NATO'S estimated 15,000 is a mere 8% of 200,000 a far cry from your claim of one-third, 65,000 or 33%

Not my claim. This originated from the British Ministry of Defence, who supposedly know more than you and I combined.

Putin has 87% approval in Russia, the entire Donbas will soon be under Russian control, with Odessa not being far behind, then Kiev will be surrounded

Of course he has 87% approval. I'm surprised it's that low. Total control of information outlets, corrupt handling of elections and polls and a habit of murdering opponents at home and abroad, does tend to skew the figures. As for the out come, once I would have believed you. Not now.

NewsWeek Article 5/18/2022
NATO estimated that up to 15,000 Russian troops have already died in Ukraine in the last three months of war. Ukrainian authorities report a much higher number, estimating the number of fallen Russian troops as of Wednesday at over 28,000. Russian authorities have reported just 1,500 casualties in Ukraine in their latest release.

Worth leaving your link up as it shows the sheer incompetence of Russian junior officers in the botched River crossing which resulted in an entire battalion being written out of the ORBAT. One artillery barrage is all it took. One certain result of this war is that nobody will be scared of Russian ground forces ever again
Except for their capacity to commit war crimes of course.

 

[Temujin]

Russian hardliners are concerned that the massive spending from the US may eventually have some influence on the war.

Putin may well ramp up operations if he believes that a negotiated settlement is not possible.

Kremlin hardliners and the Special Military Operation

Kremlin hardliners and the Special Military Operation The Duran: Episode 1282

rumble.com

Increasingly unlikely. Having revealed the poor quality of his troops, "escalation" would simply expose them to more threat followed by heavier defeats. Putin will look for a face-saving formula, perhaps claiming that the sole purpose of the military operation was to pound into a pulp those areas of Ukraine that were pro Russian. That'll show 'em!

 

[Theophilos]

U.S. Accuses Zero Hedge of Spreading Russian Propaganda

Officials said the website published articles created by Moscow-controlled media that were then shared by outlets and people unaware of their nexus to Russian intelligence.

www.bloomberg.com

ZeroHedge Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media

Ad Fontes Media rates ZeroHedge, an online financial blog featuring anonymous original content, as skews right in terms of bias and mixed reliability ...

adfontesmedia.com

Finance blog Zero Hedge was banned from Twitter for Wuhan coronavirus misinformation. It's not the first time the publication has raised eyebrows.

The financial blog that rose to popularity in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis has since been labeled "far-right" and "pro-Trump."

www.businessinsider.com

It's sad that anyone would parrot their stories as credible or informative...

Yes, back in 2020 Twitter banned ZeroHedge for accurately reporting evidence that the COVID virus came from a lab in Wuhan. Earlier this year officials at the CIA attempted to smear ZeroHedge.

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

These are badges of honor in my book. As is the case in Russia, journalists and media outlets who truthfully report evidence that contradicts the official narratives face harassment. The harassment can come from the government security agencies or their oligarch allies. If you doubt that look at what the US and the UK have been doing with Julian Assange.

If you want a real list of media outlets that are spreading disinformation, then I suggest you look at those who followed the gag order on Biden laptop story before the 2020 election. Sadly virtually every corporate outlet followed the evidence-free directive from the 51 former intel officials. Even on Fox News, the only coverage was in Tucker Carlson's commentary.

Has anyone been fired or banned from social media for spreading lies and misinformation about the laptop?

 

[Theophilos]

Yeah Zero Hedge has it correct, its a full surrender, the wounded were removed first,and the rest followed

Yes Ukraine and the liberal MSM are the last to report the facts

Nobody is left at the steel plant, its a full surrender, and victory for Russia

Yes, even mainstream media are starting to admit the scale of the surrender Azovstal. Here is an example from the UK that sites sources from the UK Ministry of Defence:

The MoD said 1,700 Ukrainian troops had now surrendered from the sprawling complex but it was unknown how many remained inside.

Putin ‘risks heavy losses in rush to redeploy Mariupol troops’

www.msn.com

The surrender is continuing.