through faith HowieYes, I did.
Yes, it is.
Yes, it is.
No, "by faith," makes faith the means.
Correct.
without faith there is no salvation
Faith is a condition
through faith HowieYes, I did.
Yes, it is.
Yes, it is.
No, "by faith," makes faith the means.
Correct.
Jesus and context already refuted youThe readers wiil decide which of us is correct, Tom.
Ditto
Yes the same group in the passage .You are in error Howie
Follow the context
John 6:24–41 (KJV 1900) — 24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus. 25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither? 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Christ speaking to but one group throughout
they followed him because they were fed but they did not believe
It is these who murmer
They were not his disciples
Its so obviousYes the same group in the passage .
Correct, sorry. By grace is the cause, through faith is the means.through faith Howie
Bias and subjective.Its so obvious
How any can deny it is rather baffling
Yes.without faith there is no salvation
That makes faith a work. Faith is not a work. Faith is the means of salvation.Faith is a condition
Faith is never a work , anymore strawmen?Yes.
That makes faith a work. Faith is not a work. Faith is the means of salvation.
The readers will decide whether Jesus and context have you or me, Tom. Trust me, they will. ?Jesus and context already refuted you
NopeYes.
That makes faith a work. Faith is not a work, faith is the means of salvation.
its plain you were refutedThe readers will decide whether Jesus and context have you or me, Tom. Trust me, they will. ?
I've already told you, Tom, faith isn't a work, it is the means of salvation.Nope
how can salvation be by grace through and not be works if faith is a work
Plain to whom, Tom?its plain you were refuted
I've already told you, Tom, faith isn't a work, it is the means of salvation.
plain to anyone who will read the text without biasPlain to whom, Tom?
As I've always maintained.Faith is never a work ,
anymore strawmen?
while you claimed it is the means of salvationAs I've always maintained.
I know what you've said.I've read it. I never said there were not ANY disciples there. I've said they were not exclusively disciples. Again. Mixed multitude.
Neither she nor I am mistaken concerning what is being said by Jesus in John 6.She clearly isn't. She is making the same mistakes you are.
Are you? Explain?I'm you brother in Jesus Christ.
How am I treating you differently?You have no reason to treat me any differently than you do "your sister"....
Why do you suppose that? Be specific, please.I suppose when you talk about God demanding that all men be loved equally, you don't really believe it.
I don't understand? Prefer some in what way?You prefer some don't you?
Not true I love my Calvinist brothers I just don’t like some of the doctrines now . The reverse was true with Arminians whom I loved but disagreed with before.
Bias and subjective.