Unconditional election unto damnation.

sundance

Well-known member
Baloney. In order for something to be estsblished by a statement in the passage said statement must be stated in the passage. The unity of God is nowhere stated in the passage we are discussing. Case closed.

You need to read again.

Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I can read. I know what it says. I've been reading for many years. You are obviously mistaken. Jesus was specfically dealing with His position with the Father.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Faith is never a work , anymore strawmen?

According to Paul, faith is not a work.
Because Paul correctly recognized faith as a gift of God (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 1 Cor. 4:7).
But you don't understand faith in the same way Paul does.
You make faith a work, because it's not God-given faith, it's a self-generated "decision" faith.
 

sundance

Well-known member
According to Paul, faith is not a work.
Because Paul correctly recognized faith as a gift of God (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 1 Cor. 4:7).
But you don't understand faith in the same way Paul does.
You make faith a work, because it's not God-given faith, it's a self-generated "decision" faith.
Men can treat faith as a work but it is never dealt with in the Scriptures as a "work".

You are adding your own requirement. Faith is a decision. It requires no work of its own.
 
G

guest1

Guest
If you don't like the accusations directed at you (when they're arguably true, IMO), then don't direct them at others. But as usual, everything you post has to be a personal attack:

"Calvinists are actually Hyper-Calvinists!" (No, we're not);
"Calvinists detest the people we oppose" (No, we don't).

Why don't you try sticking to THEOLOGY?
Nothing is personal it’s doctrinal . Do you understand the difference?
 
G

guest1

Guest
According to Paul, faith is not a work.
Because Paul correctly recognized faith as a gift of God (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 1 Cor. 4:7).
But you don't understand faith in the same way Paul does.
You make faith a work, because it's not God-given faith, it's a self-generated "decision" faith.
No faith is man response to the gospel.
 

Howie

Well-known member
You need to read again.

Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I can read. I know what it says. I've been reading for many years. You are obviously mistaken. Jesus was specfically dealing with His position with the Father.
I can read also.

To begin with, you initially said Jesus's statement, "establishes the Unity between Father and Son." That has now become, "Jesus was specifically dealing with His position with the Father." You need to get your position straight, sundance.

What Jesus establishes in the passage is man's inability to come to Christ on his own, without the aid of God, the Father -- a strong support for the "T," in TULIP.
 

sundance

Well-known member
I can read also.

To begin with, you initially said Jesus's statement, "establishes the Unity between Father and Son." That has now become, "Jesus was specifically dealing with His position with the Father." You need to get your position straight, sundance.

Both are true and compliment one another. Jesus was asserting His Unity with the Father and dealing with His Position with the Father.

What Jesus establishes in the passage is man's inability to come to Christ on his own, without the aid of God, the Father -- a strong support for the "T," in TULIP.

That is your opinion. Nothing more. I have provided evidence that this is not accurate. We can make our choices. You will. I will.
 

Howie

Well-known member

Theo1689

Well-known member
The way you respond with "What"... ."Why". I see no reason to believe you're not doing this for any other reason than to ignore what someone says.

You make unsubstantiated claims right and left.
The "what" and "why" are opportunities for you to try to substantiate them.
If you can't, then there's no reason to accept anything you say, is there?
 

Howie

Well-known member
The way you respond with "What"... ."Why". I see no reason to believe you're not doing this for any other reason than to ignore what someone says.
I'm NOT ignoring what you said, however, you ARE ignoring my request of you for further clarification and information of your statements.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
When I respond with substance, I often get such nonsense from him. Have I said this to you?

It's not "nonsense" he's giving you.
And I don't see any "substance" in your posts.

You simply make unreasonable arbitrary assertions, and expect everyone to bow down blindly and accept them. That's not how this works.
 

sundance

Well-known member
It's not "nonsense" he's giving you.
And I don't see any "substance" in your posts.

You simply make unreasonable arbitrary assertions, and expect everyone to bow down blindly and accept them. That's not how this works.
Like I said. I haven't said this to you. He is the one doing this. You can keep ignoring what I said if you like. At least you're not "why"... "what"... "how"...
 
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