Unconditional election unto damnation.

[Howie]

The straw man is ignoring that free will and election is in scripture now there is your straw man.

I asked you to prove free will using scripture, but you couldn't prove it. All you were able to do was demontrate your assumption that man has a free will because God commanded man to make a choice.

So I'm not ignoring "free will," I'm saying man's will is not free, which is what scripture says. Scripture says man's will is enslaved, either to sin, or to righteousness (Rom 6:16-23.

Therefore, it is YOU who is ignoring scrpture with regard to the Bondage of your will.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

You won't listen to me. You're a true slave to your emotions, your religious syereotypes and their resultant straw men. Semper Fi ...

God gave me emotions did He not, and yes I am passionate about God’s word. I am a learner I do not know it all like many claim, but I do make an effort to see both sides and learn the truth as God intends for it to be understood.

 

[fltom]

I asked you to prove free will using scripture, but you couldn't prove it. All you were able to do was demontrate your assumption that man has a free will because God commanded man to make a choice.

So I'm not ignoring "free will," I'm saying man's will is not free, which is what scripture says. Scripture says man's will is enslaved, either to sin, or to righteousness (Rom 6:16-23.

Therefore, it is YOU who is ignoring scrpture with regard to the Bondage of your will.

Actually it is you


(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, but of free will.
(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, but by the free will:
(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me out of your own free will without feeling forced to do it.
(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but according to your own free will.
(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, but of your own free will.
(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.
(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force but by free will.
(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion but of your own free will. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.
(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
(NASB95) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TEV) 14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I would like for you to do it of your own free will. So I will not do anything unless you agree.
(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
CT 14 but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, but of free will.NENT 14 but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, but of free will.
SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, but according to free will.
(NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.
(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.
(EOB) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent: your goodness should not be forced, but of free will.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

I asked you to prove free will using scripture, but you couldn't prove it. All you were able to do was demontrate your assumption that man has a free will because God commanded man to make a choice.

So I'm not ignoring "free will," I'm saying man's will is not free, which is what scripture says. Scripture says man's will is enslaved, either to sin, or to righteousness (Rom 6:16-23.

Therefore, it is YOU who is ignoring scrpture with regard to the Bondage of your will.

I proved it you ignored the scriptures I posted.

 

[Howie]

Actually it is you


(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, but of free will.
(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, but by the free will:
(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me out of your own free will without feeling forced to do it.
(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but according to your own free will.
(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, but of your own free will.
(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.
(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force but by free will.
(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion but of your own free will. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.
(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
(NASB95) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TEV) 14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I would like for you to do it of your own free will. So I will not do anything unless you agree.
(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
CT 14 but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, but of free will.NENT 14 but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, but of free will.
SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, but according to free will.
(NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.
(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.
(EOB) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent: your goodness should not be forced, but of free will.

Rom 6:16-23.

 

[Howie]

I proved it you ignored the scriptures I posted.

You didn't prove man's free will. As @fltom does, you assume man's free will even in the face of scripture asserting the bondage of your will (Rom 616-23).

You, and @fltom reject scriptural truth regarding to bondage of your will.

 

[fltom]

You didn't prove man's free will. As @fltom does, you assume man's free will even in the face of scripture asserting the bondage of your will (Rom 616-23).

If its proven why do you doubt it

 

[fltom]

Rom 6:16-23.

Romans 6:15–23 (KJV 1900) — 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That disprives a limited free will How?

 

[Howie]

If its proven why do you doubt it

What?

 

[Howie]

Romans 6:15–23 (KJV 1900) — 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That disprives a limited free will How?

By saying, Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

There is only one choice, Tom, slavery.

Free will is a philosophical construct, not a biblical / theological construct.

 

[guest1]

Prove it.


Straw man.

Prove it

 

[guest1]

I asked you to prove free will using scripture, but you couldn't prove it. All you were able to do was demontrate your assumption that man has a free will because God commanded man to make a choice.

So I'm not ignoring "free will," I'm saying man's will is not free, which is what scripture says. Scripture says man's will is enslaved, either to sin, or to righteousness (Rom 6:16-23.

Therefore, it is YOU who is ignoring scrpture with regard to the Bondage of your will.

Prove it - quoting a passage is not proof

 

[Leatherneck0311]

You didn't prove man's free will. As @fltom does, you assume man's free will even in the face of scripture asserting the bondage of your will (Rom 616-23).

You, and @fltom reject scriptural truth regarding to bondage of your will.

Since Jesus said whosoever believes that means some believe and some do not. When Paul told the jailer to be saved he must believe on the Lord Jesus that means he had to put his faith in Jesus. God does not faith for us( until after we are saved then He does increase our faith)

By saying, Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

There is only one choice, Tom, slavery.

Free will is a philosophical construct, not a biblical / theological construct.

you seem to not understand that when we are born again we are free to serve God without being bound to and controlled by sin. Free will is in scripture you just refuse to study or consider the verses that teaches and proves free will.

 

[Howie]

Prove it - quoting a passage is not proof

There is no writing in scripture articulating man's free wiil, only writing asserting man is enslaved either to sin, or to righteousness (Rom 6:16-30).

 

[Howie]

Since Jesus said whosoever believes that means some believe and some do not. When Paul told the jailer to be saved he must believe on the Lord Jesus that means he had to put his faith in Jesus. God does not faith for us( until after we are saved then He does increase our faith)

you seem to not understand that when we are born again we are free to serve God without being bound to and controlled by sin. Free will is in scripture you just refuse to study or consider the verses that teaches and proves free will.

I've responded to those points several times already. I'm not doing it again.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

I've responded to those points several times already. I'm not doing it again.

Jhn 7:17 - If any man will do his will,he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Jhn 1:12 - But as many as received him,to them gave he power to becomethe sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Rev 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice , and open the door, I will come into him, and will sup with him, and hewith me.

Rom 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that Good hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 - For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Act 17:30 - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:

 

[fltom]

By saying, Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

There is only one choice, Tom, slavery.

Free will is a philosophical construct, not a biblical / theological construct.

First you will You will note that it is when you present yourself to sin you become a slave

Free will is limited and it can be lost depending on previous responses

but primarily it holds man is able to respond to God's initiative

Seeing as the bible mentions free will 17-19 times it is hard to see how you can state it is philosophical construct, not a biblical / theological construct.

I think the problem is you do not really understand what a soft libertarian free will is

 

[fltom]

What?

Read your words

 

[Howie]

First you will You will note that it is when you present yourself to sin you become a slave

No, it doesn't say that.

It says, Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

You missed much of the verse.

Free will is limited and it can be lost dependinon previous responses

Free will is a philosophical construct. In scripture, the only option is that of slave, either to sin, or to righteousness.

but primarily it holds man is able to respond to God's initiative

You're reciting a philosophical narrative. I'm stating a biblical truth.

Seeing as the bible mentions free will 17-19 times it is hard to see how you can state it is philosophical construct, not a biblical / theological construct.

Scripture never describes man's will as free, and you know it.

I think the problem is you do not really understand what a soft libertarian free will is

As I've said, it's a philosophical construct, not a biblical / theological construct.

 

[Howie]

Read your words

You don't know what you're saying. Got it.