Unconditional election unto damnation.

[JonHawk]

SovereignGrace said:
When Adam fell, we all fell, being in Adam. God did not have to do one thing to damn all of mankind, as that damnation was an already reality. But for Him to save them, He had to do something, elect them. So, election has to do with God choosing them....

You did not choose me, but I chose you. I appointed you to produce fruit that lasts [forever]. John 15:16

Sketo said:
“and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.” (Act 13:48)

And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 John 5:11

Leatherneck0311 said:

1Jo 5:10 - He that believes on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:he that believes not God hath made him a liar; because he believes not the record that God gave of his Son. There is no election mentioned in 1John 5:10 . God does NOT believe for us and as the verse says he that believes as opposed to he who believes not.

For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Certainly not! Rom 3:3-4

They were destined to stumble because they did not believe in the word [in Christ]. 1 Peter 2:8

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Whoever believes in Him [who alone can save] is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already;

Leatherneck0311 said:
They stumbled because they did NOT believe they weren’t not destined to stumble.

‘Make sure that you present to Me at the appointed time My offering, as an aroma pleasing to Me.’ Num 28:2

Indeed to the [unbeliever] we are an aroma of death to death: but to [believers] the aroma of everlasting life.

Leatherneck0311 said:
Acts 16:31 the jailer asked Paul what must I do to be saved Paul told the jailer he must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. No mention of election...

Make sure of your calling and election. Then you will never stumble and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11

Question: if election is what makes salvation true wouldn’t that make Jesus, John ,Paul and others liars ? Whosoever believes is whoever places their faith in Jesus ....

Coming to Him, God's elect One [Christ our Savior] 1 Peter 2:4

Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Romans 8:33

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Let me widen your horizons. Acts 13:48

Acts 13:48​

King James Version​

​

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Obviously you have a problem.

And

Ephesians 1:4
King James Version
​

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version
​

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 6:65
King James Version
​

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

edit

Are you seriously calling holy scripture a cliche?

When discussing scripture, integrity matters.

Actionable

 

[Leatherneck0311]

You did not choose me, but I chose you. I appointed you to produce fruit that lasts [forever]. John 15:16

And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 John 5:11

For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Certainly not! Rom 3:3-4

They were destined to stumble because they did not believe in the word [in Christ]. 1 Peter 2:8

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Whoever believes in Him [who alone can save] is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already;

‘Make sure that you present to Me at the appointed time My offering, as an aroma pleasing to Me.’ Num 28:2

Indeed to the [unbeliever] we are an aroma of death to death: but to [believers] the aroma of everlasting life.

Make sure of your calling and election. Then you will never stumble and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11

Coming to Him, God's elect One [Christ our Savior] 1 Peter 2:4

Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Romans 8:33

You can’t be among God’s elect unless you first believe and repent as God commanded.

 

[JonHawk]

SovereignGrace said:
When Adam fell, we all fell, being in Adam. God did not have to do one thing to damn all of mankind, as that damnation was an already reality. But for Him to save them, He had to do something, elect them. So, election has to do with God choosing them....

You did not choose me, but I chose you. I appointed you to produce fruit that lasts [forever]. John 15:16

Sketo said:
“and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.” (Act 13:48)

And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 John 5:11

Leatherneck0311 said:

1Jo 5:10 - He that believes on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:he that believes not God hath made him a liar; because he believes not the record that God gave of his Son. There is no election mentioned in 1John 5:10 . God does NOT believe for us and as the verse says he that believes as opposed to he who believes not.

For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Certainly not! Rom 3:3-4

They were destined to stumble because they did not believe in the word [in Christ]. 1 Peter 2:8

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Whoever believes in Him [who alone can save] is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already;

Leatherneck0311 said:
They stumbled because they did NOT believe they weren’t not destined to stumble.

‘Make sure that you present to Me at the appointed time My offering, as an aroma pleasing to Me.’ Num 28:2

Indeed to the [unbeliever] we are an aroma of death to death: but to [believers] the aroma of everlasting life.

Leatherneck0311 said:
Acts 16:31 the jailer asked Paul what must I do to be saved Paul told the jailer he must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. No mention of election...

Make sure of your calling and election. Then you will never stumble and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11

Leatherneck0311 said:
Question: if election is what makes salvation true wouldn’t that make Jesus, John ,Paul and others liars ? Whosoever believes is whoever places their faith in Jesus ....

Coming to Him, God's elect One [Christ our Savior] 1 Peter 2:4

Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Romans 8:33

You can’t be among God’s elect unless you first believe and repent as God commanded.

Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” Acts 17

 

[Beloved Daughter]

They stumbled because they did NOT believe they weren’t destined to stumble.

Prove this is what they believed. Scripture, not commentary matters.

 

[JonHawk]

SovereignGrace said:
When Adam fell, we all fell, being in Adam. God did not have to do one thing to damn all of mankind, as that damnation was an already reality. But for Him to save them, He had to do something, elect them. So, election has to do with God choosing them....

You did not choose me, but I chose you. I appointed you to produce fruit that lasts [forever]. John 15:16

Sketo said:
“and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.” (Act 13:48)

And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 John 5:11

Edit

For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Certainly not! Rom 3:3-4

They were destined to stumble because they did not believe in the word [in Christ]. 1 Peter 2:8

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Whoever believes in Him [who alone can save] is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already;

Leatherneck0311 said:
Edit

‘Make sure that you present to Me at the appointed time My offering, as an aroma pleasing to Me.’ Num 28:2

Indeed to the [unbeliever] we are an aroma of death to death: but to [believers] the aroma of everlasting life.

Edit

Make sure of your calling and election. Then you will never stumble and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11

Leatherneck0311 said:
Edit

Coming to Him, God's elect One [Christ our Savior] 1 Peter 2:4

Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Romans 8:33

Leatherneck0311 said:
Edit

Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” Acts 17

Edit

For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.” 2 Cor 6:14-16

 

[Alexander the adequate]

1 Samuel describes Eli and his two sons who were wicked men. The LORD says this is chapter 3 verse 14:

And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.
1 Samuel 3:14 KJV

No matter what these men did God promised them that they would never be forgiven. Does this make God unfair? I say no, they deserved hell.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:16 KJV

Are you teaching that Eli and all his descendants thru time were predestined for the lake of fire?

 

[JonHawk]

“Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse"

Are you teaching that Eli and all his descendants thru time were predestined for the lake of fire?

As he loved curses, so let it come to him; As he did not delight in blessing, so let it be far from him. Ps 109:17

"Because, when I called, you did not answer; When I spoke, you did not hear, But did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.” Isa 65:12

Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil. Eccl 5:1

 

[Alexander the adequate]

“Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse"

As he loved curses, so let it come to him; As he did not delight in blessing, so let it be far from him. Ps 109:17

"Because, when I called, you did not answer; When I spoke, you did not hear, But did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.” Isa 65:12

Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to give the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil. Eccl 5:1

Are you supporting the idea of individual choice? That is what those verses say to me.

 

[JonHawk]

“Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse"

Alexander the adequate said:
Are you teaching that Eli and all his descendants thru time were predestined for the lake of fire?

As he loved curses, so let it come to him; As he did not delight in blessing, so let it be far from him. Ps 109:17

"Because, when I called, you did not answer; When I spoke, you did not hear, But did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.” Isa 65:12

Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil. Eccl 5:1

Are you supporting the idea of individual choice? That is what those verses say to me.

We will all give an account. Heb 4:13

He will give eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath; Rom 2

 

[Alexander the adequate]

“Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse"

As he loved curses, so let it come to him; As he did not delight in blessing, so let it be far from him. Ps 109:17

"Because, when I called, you did not answer; When I spoke, you did not hear, But did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.” Isa 65:12

Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil. Eccl 5:1

We will all give an account. Heb 4:13

He will give eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath; Rom 2

Your responses are difficult because you leave it up to me to interpret scripture according to my own understandng, so it is hard to know why you post, since you do not explain what you think is meant

 

[fltom]

You don't know what you're saying. Got it.

They were your words
apparently you did not know what you were saying

 

[fltom]

No, it doesn't say that.

It says, Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

You missed much of the verse.

Free will is a philosophical construct. In scripture, the only option is that of slave, either to sin, or to righteousness.


You're reciting a philosophical narrative. I'm stating a biblical truth.


Scripture never describes man's will as free, and you know it.


As I've said, it's a philosophical construct, not a biblical / theological construct.

As you said while ignoring the fact the bible speaks of free will 17-18 times

Hello

 

[eternomade]

Are you teaching that Eli and all his descendants thru time were predestined for the lake of fire?

Not necessarily. His two sons for sure though.

If one man sins against another, God will judge him. But if a man sins against the Lord , who will intercede for him?” Nevertheless they did not heed the voice of their father, because the Lord desired to kill them.
I Samuel 2:25 NKJV

Why did they not listen to their father?

Who bore the guilt for David and Bathsheba sin?

So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord .” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.”
II Samuel 12:13‭-‬14 NKJV

1. David and Bathsheba broke the law, and their punishment required death.
2. The Lord put away their sin by substitution.
3. This substitute was their first born son.
4. The Lord purposes all things for His glory

 

[Dizerner]

Who bore the guilt for David and Bathsheba sin?

1. David and Bathsheba broke the law, and their punishment required death.
2. The Lord put away their sin by substitution.
3. This substitute was their first born son.
4. The Lord purposes all things for His glory

No way, no how.

David bore the punishment by losing his son, and continued judgments against his household.

Christ bore the guilt, as the substitute for their sin was Christ, himself, not the child. Nowhere does this child bring any kind of atonement, nor does God ever use human substitutes outside of his Son.

The child was a victim to the judgment for their sin.

 

[JonHawk]

“Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse"

Alexander the adequate said:
Are you teaching that Eli and all his descendants thru time were predestined for the lake of fire?

As he loved curses, so let it come to him; As he did not delight in blessing, so let it be far from him. Ps 109:17

"Because, when I called, you did not answer; When I spoke, you did not hear, But did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.” Isa 65:12

Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil. Eccl 5:1

Alexander the adequate said:
Are you supporting the idea of individual choice? That is what those verses say to me.

We will all give an account. Heb 4:13

He will give eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath; Rom 2

Your responses are difficult because you leave it up to me to interpret scripture according to my own understandng, so it is hard to know why you post, since you do not explain what you think is meant

Choose life in order that you may live, Deut 30:19 "Come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live." Isa 55:3

 

[Howie]

They were your words
apparently you did not know what you were saying

Your in the twilight zone again.

 

[Howie]

As you said while ignoring the fact the bible speaks of free will 17-18 times

Hello

No, it doesn't. Man's will is not free, it is enslaved either to sin, or to rightrousness.

Free will is a philosophical construct, not a biblical construct.

 

[eternomade]

No way, no how.

David bore the punishment by losing his son, and continued judgments against his household.

Christ bore the guilt, as the substitute for their sin was Christ, himself, not the child. Nowhere does this child bring any kind of atonement, nor does God ever use human substitutes outside of his Son.

The child was a victim to the judgment for their sin.

Was meaning as a type.