Unconditional election unto damnation.

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guest1

Guest
No, it doesn't. Man's will is not free, it is enslaved either to sin, or to rightrousness.

Free will is a philosophical construct, not a biblical construct.
slaves are free to do many things. Paul as a slave wrote most of our new testament.
 
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guest1

Guest
You keep saying that. Talk is cheap.
Yes man has free will


Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2307: θέλημα

θέλημα, θελήματος, τό (θέλω), a word purely Biblical and ecclesiastical (yet found in Aristotle, de plant. 1, 1, p. 815b, 21); the Sept. for חֵפֶץ and רָצון; will, i. e., a. what one wishes or has determined shall be done (i. e. objectively, thing willed): Luke 12:47; John 5:30; 1 Corinthians 7:37; 1 Thessalonians 5:18; 2 Timothy 2:26; Hebrews 10:10; Revelation 4:11; θέλημα τοῦ Θεοῦ is used — of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ, Acts 22:14; Ephesians 1:9; Colossians 1:9; of what God wishes to be done by us, Romans 12:2; Colossians 4:12 (Winer's Grammar, 111 (105)); 1 Peter 4:2; and simply τό θέλημα, Romans 2:18 (Winer's Grammar, 594 (553)) (Sir. 43:16 (17) (but here the better text now adds αὐτοῦ, see Fritzsche; in patristic Greek, however, θέλημα is so used even without the article; cf. Ignatius ad Rom. 1, 1 [ET]; ad Eph. 20, 1 [ET], etc.)); τοῦκυρίου, Ephesians 5:17; plural commands, precepts: (Mark 3:35 WH. marginal reading); Acts 13:22 (Psalm 102:7 (); 2 Macc. 1:3); ἐστι τό θέληματίνος, followed by ἵνα, John 6:39; 1 Corinthians 16:12, cf. Matthew 18:14; followed by an infinitive, 1 Peter 2:15; by an accusative with an infinitive 1 Thessalonians 4:3. (Cf. Buttmann, 237 (204); 240 (207); Winers Grammar, § 44, 8.)
b. equivalent to τό θέλειν (i. e. the abstract act of willing, the subjective) will, choice: 1 Peter 3:17 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 604 (562)); 2 Peter 1:21; ποιεῖν τό θέλημα τίνος (especially of God), Matthew 7:21; Matthew 12:50; Matthew 21:31; Mark 3:35 (here WHmarginal reading the plural, see above); John 4:34; John 6:38; John 7:17; John 9:31; Ephesians 6:6; Hebrews 10:7, 9, 36; Hebrews 13:21; 1 John 2:17; τόθέλημα (L T Tr WH βούλημα) τίνοςκατεργάζεσθαι, 1 Peter 4:3; γίνεται τόθέλημα τίνος, Matthew 6:10; Matthew 26:42; Luke 11:2 L R; ; Acts 21:14; ἡβουλή τοῦ θελήματος, Ephesians 1:11; ἡεὐδοκία τοῦ θελήματος Ephesians 1:5; ἐντῷ θελημάτω τοῦ Θεοῦ, if God will, Romans 1:10; διά θελήματος Θεοῦ, Romans 15:32; 1 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 8:5; Ephesians 1:1; Colossians 1:1; 2 Timothy 1:1; κατά τό θέλημα τοῦ Θεοῦ, Galatians 1:4; (1 Peter 4:19); 1 John 5:14. equivalent to pleasure: Luke 23:25; equivalent to inclination, desire: σαρκός, ἀνδρός, John 1:13; plural Ephesians 2:3. (Synonym: see θέλω, at the end.)


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
desire, pleasure, will.
From the prolonged form of ethelo; a determination (properly, the thing), i.e. (actively) choice (specially, purpose, decree; abstractly, volition) or (passively) inclination -- desire, pleasure, will.
 
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guest1

Guest
And they are still slaves, either to sin or to righteousness, by choice, but they are slaves, nevertheless.
But they have a free will. Did Paul have a free will as a slave in prison ? Did he have a free will as a slave of Christ ?
 

Howie

Well-known member
But they have a free will. Did Paul have a free will as a slave in prison ? Did he have a free will as a slave of Christ ?
They have a will. They are volitional, but they are not free. That is plainly seen in the constraints God places upon them through the law. They have a will, but they are not free. Their very life is dependent upon their tether to the creator (Acts 17:25, 28,). That's not freedom. God is the only being with a free will.
 
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guest1

Guest
They have a will. They are volitional, but they are not free. That is plainly seen in the constraints God places upon them through the law. They have a will, but they are not free. Their very life is dependent upon their tether to the creator (Acts 17:25, 28,). That's not freedom. God is the only being with a free will.
Maybe we should discuss what we mean by " free " ?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Question: if election is what makes salvation true wouldn’t that make Jesus, John ,Paul and others liars ?

Of course not.

Whosoever believes is whoever places their faith in Jesus not even close to what Calvinist believe.

It is EXACTLY what Calvinists believe.

God does not believe for us

No one claims that He does!

there is no scripture to support that. God does not repent for us

Nobody TEACHES that!

no verse to support that. God does not place belief in us for Jesus there is no verse to support that.

Eph. 2:8.
Phil. 1:29.
Rom. 12:3.
2 Pet. 1:1.
1 Cor. 4:7,
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Yes man has free will


Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2307: θέλημα

θέλημα, θελήματος, τό (θέλω), a word purely Biblical and ecclesiastical (yet found in Aristotle, de plant. 1, 1, p. 815b, 21); the Sept. for חֵפֶץ and רָצון; will, i. e., a. what one wishes or has determined shall be done (i. e. objectively, thing willed): Luke 12:47; John 5:30; 1 Corinthians 7:37; 1 Thessalonians 5:18; 2 Timothy 2:26; Hebrews 10:10; Revelation 4:11; θέλημα τοῦ Θεοῦ is used — of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ, Acts 22:14; Ephesians 1:9; Colossians 1:9; of what God wishes to be done by us, Romans 12:2; Colossians 4:12 (Winer's Grammar, 111 (105)); 1 Peter 4:2; and simply τό θέλημα, Romans 2:18 (Winer's Grammar, 594 (553)) (Sir. 43:16 (17) (but here the better text now adds αὐτοῦ, see Fritzsche; in patristic Greek, however, θέλημα is so used even without the article; cf. Ignatius ad Rom. 1, 1 [ET]; ad Eph. 20, 1 [ET], etc.)); τοῦκυρίου, Ephesians 5:17; plural commands, precepts: (Mark 3:35 WH. marginal reading); Acts 13:22 (Psalm 102:7 (); 2 Macc. 1:3); ἐστι τό θέληματίνος, followed by ἵνα, John 6:39; 1 Corinthians 16:12, cf. Matthew 18:14; followed by an infinitive, 1 Peter 2:15; by an accusative with an infinitive 1 Thessalonians 4:3. (Cf. Buttmann, 237 (204); 240 (207); Winers Grammar, § 44, 8.)
b. equivalent to τό θέλειν (i. e. the abstract act of willing, the subjective) will, choice: 1 Peter 3:17 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 604 (562)); 2 Peter 1:21; ποιεῖν τό θέλημα τίνος (especially of God), Matthew 7:21; Matthew 12:50; Matthew 21:31; Mark 3:35 (here WHmarginal reading the plural, see above); John 4:34; John 6:38; John 7:17; John 9:31; Ephesians 6:6; Hebrews 10:7, 9, 36; Hebrews 13:21; 1 John 2:17; τόθέλημα (L T Tr WH βούλημα) τίνοςκατεργάζεσθαι, 1 Peter 4:3; γίνεται τόθέλημα τίνος, Matthew 6:10; Matthew 26:42; Luke 11:2 L R; ; Acts 21:14; ἡβουλή τοῦ θελήματος, Ephesians 1:11; ἡεὐδοκία τοῦ θελήματος Ephesians 1:5; ἐντῷ θελημάτω τοῦ Θεοῦ, if God will, Romans 1:10; διά θελήματος Θεοῦ, Romans 15:32; 1 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 8:5; Ephesians 1:1; Colossians 1:1; 2 Timothy 1:1; κατά τό θέλημα τοῦ Θεοῦ, Galatians 1:4; (1 Peter 4:19); 1 John 5:14. equivalent to pleasure: Luke 23:25; equivalent to inclination, desire: σαρκός, ἀνδρός, John 1:13; plural Ephesians 2:3. (Synonym: see θέλω, at the end.)


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
desire, pleasure, will.
From the prolonged form of ethelo; a determination (properly, the thing), i.e. (actively) choice (specially, purpose, decree; abstractly, volition) or (passively) inclination -- desire, pleasure, will.

"thelema" means "will", not "FREE will".
 

Howie

Well-known member
@Howie


Did God Determine Paul to write most of the new testament OR was he "free" when he wrote it?

...
God raised Paul up to be an apostle who wrote scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, as did all of the writers of scripture (2 Pet 1:16-21).
 
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guest1

Guest
So would you say Paul was a "puppet" or "Robot" because "God determined him to write..."?

Why or why not?

...
Paul has a "style" to his letters that are unique to his personality. Its what he is not the author of Hebrews because its not his style of writing not did he talk about the things in his letters that are discussed in Hebrews. The Holy Spirit " guided" them into all truth including Paul.
 

fltom

Well-known member
No, it doesn't. Man's will is not free, it is enslaved either to sin, or to rightrousness.

Free will is a philosophical construct, not a biblical construct.
Its in the bible

If you don't believe it you don't believe the bible
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Paul has a "style" to his letters that are unique to his personality. Its what he is not the author of Hebrews because its not his style of writing not did he talk about the things in his letters that are discussed in Hebrews. The Holy Spirit " guided" them into all truth including Paul.

So how did God determine what Paul would write, in his style, without him being considered a "robot" or "puppet"?

...
 
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