Unconditional election unto damnation.

Its in the bible

If you don't believe it you don't believe the bible

Translation: If you don't accept Tom's private interpretation of the Bible, then you don't believe the Bible. Because Tom, and Tom alone, and only Tom, gets to proclaim what the Bible does or doesn't teach.

It's amazing the hubris that they think it's so EASY for us to misinterpret the Bible, but they think it's IMPOSSIBLE for them to misinterpret the Bible. So much for Christian charity.
 
Not necessarily. His two sons for sure though.

If one man sins against another, God will judge him. But if a man sins against the Lord , who will intercede for him?” Nevertheless they did not heed the voice of their father, because the Lord desired to kill them.
I Samuel 2:25 NKJV

Why did they not listen to their father?

Who bore the guilt for David and Bathsheba sin?

So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord .” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.”
II Samuel 12:13‭-‬14 NKJV

1. David and Bathsheba broke the law, and their punishment required death.
2. The Lord put away their sin by substitution.
3. This substitute was their first born son.
4. The Lord purposes all things for His glory
ok, but you know what is meant by "house" in that context?
 
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.

How does reposting the same refuted list of translations achieve anything, other than to waste CARM resources?

14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord.(ESV)

14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary. (NIV)

14 But without thy mynde woulde I do nothyng, that thy benefite shoulde not be as it were of necessitie, but willingly. (Bishop's)

14 But without thy counsel I would do nothing: that thy good deed might not be as it were of necessity, but voluntary. (Rheims)

14 but I have wished to do nothing without thy mind, that thy good might not be as of necessity but of willingness: (Darby)

14 But without thy minde woulde I doe nothing, that thy benefite should not be as it were of necessitie, but willingly. (Geneva)

14 However, without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your good deed would not be out of compulsion, but from your own willingness. (NET)

14 But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent. I wanted you to help because you were willing, not because you were forced. (NLT)

14 Neverthelesse without thy mynde wolde I doo nothinge that yt good which springeth of the shuld not be as it were of necessitie but willingly. (Tyndale)

14 But without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly. (Webster)

14 Only I wished to do nothing without your consent, so that his kind action of yours might not be done under pressure, but might be a voluntary one. (Weymouth)

14 and apart from thy mind I willed to do nothing, that as of necessity thy good deed may not be, but of willingness, (Young's)


None of these translations mention "free will". They only mention "voluntarily", or "willingly".

14 χωρὶς δὲ τῆς σῆς γνώμης οὐδὲν ἠθέλησα ποιῆσαι, ἵνα μὴ ὡς κατὰ ἀνάγκην τὸ ἀγαθόν σου ᾖ, ἀλλὰ κατὰ ἑκούσιον. (GNT)

There is no word here which means "free".


Lev 22:18
Speak to Aaron, and to his sons, and to all the children of Israel, and say to them, Whoever he may be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his free-will-offerings, which they will offer to the LORD for a burnt-offering:

Lev 22:21
And whoever offereth a sacrifice of peace-offerings to the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a free-will-offering in beeves, or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted: there shall be in it no blemish.

Lev 22:23
Either a bullock, or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a free-will-offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

Lev 23:38
Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your free-will-offerings, which ye give to the LORD.

Num 15:3
And will make an offering by fire to the LORD, a burnt-offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a free-will-offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savor to the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

Num 29:39
These things ye shall do to the LORD in your set feasts, besides your vows, and your free will-offerings, for your burnt-offerings, and for your meat-offerings, and for your drink-offerings, and for your peace-offerings.

Deut 12:6
And thither ye shall bring your burnt-offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave-offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your free-will-offerings, and the firstlings of your herds, and of your flocks:

Deut 12:17
Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy free-will-offerings, or heave-offering of thy hand:

Deut 16:10
And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks to the LORD thy God with a tribute of a free-will-offering of thy hand, which thou shalt give to the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

Deut 23:23
That which is uttered by thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a free-will-offering, according as thou hast vowed to the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

2 Chron 31:14
And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter towards the east, was over the free-will-offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.

Ezra 1:4
And whoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, besides the free-will-offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

Ezra 3:5
And afterward offered the continual burnt-offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a free-will-offering to the LORD.

Ezra 7:13
I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, who are disposed of their own free will to go to Jerusalem, go with thee.

Ezra 7:16
And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the free-will-offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:

Ezra 8:28
And I said to them, Ye are holy to the LORD; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a free-will-offering to the LORD God of your fathers.

Ps 119:108
Accept, I beseech thee, the free-will-offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.


Exported from Logos Bible Software, 1:26 PM June 13, 2022.

So you simply and mindlessly did an electronic "search" for a phrase, without even understanding what these verses are talking about.

As both Howie and I have explained to you MANY times (and I really don't understand your obsession with repeating your arguments ten million times, and thereby wasting CARM resources), these are NOT referring to man's imaginary "free will", they are simply describing the OFFERINGS, which are voluntary offerings over and above the required ones.

Talk about ripping verses out of context.
You should be ASHAMED of yourself!
 
How does reposting the same refuted list of translations achieve anything, other than to waste CARM resources?

14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord.(ESV)

14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary. (NIV)

14 But without thy mynde woulde I do nothyng, that thy benefite shoulde not be as it were of necessitie, but willingly. (Bishop's)

14 But without thy counsel I would do nothing: that thy good deed might not be as it were of necessity, but voluntary. (Rheims)

14 but I have wished to do nothing without thy mind, that thy good might not be as of necessity but of willingness: (Darby)

14 But without thy minde woulde I doe nothing, that thy benefite should not be as it were of necessitie, but willingly. (Geneva)

14 However, without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your good deed would not be out of compulsion, but from your own willingness. (NET)

14 But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent. I wanted you to help because you were willing, not because you were forced. (NLT)

14 Neverthelesse without thy mynde wolde I doo nothinge that yt good which springeth of the shuld not be as it were of necessitie but willingly. (Tyndale)

14 But without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly. (Webster)

14 Only I wished to do nothing without your consent, so that his kind action of yours might not be done under pressure, but might be a voluntary one. (Weymouth)

14 and apart from thy mind I willed to do nothing, that as of necessity thy good deed may not be, but of willingness, (Young's)


None of these translations mention "free will". They only mention "voluntarily", or "willingly".

14 χωρὶς δὲ τῆς σῆς γνώμης οὐδὲν ἠθέλησα ποιῆσαι, ἵνα μὴ ὡς κατὰ ἀνάγκην τὸ ἀγαθόν σου ᾖ, ἀλλὰ κατὰ ἑκούσιον. (GNT)

There is no word here which means "free".




So you simply and mindlessly did an electronic "search" for a phrase, without even understanding what these verses are talking about.

As both Howie and I have explained to you MANY times (and I really don't understand your obsession with repeating your arguments ten million times, and thereby wasting CARM resources), these are NOT referring to man's imaginary "free will", they are simply describing the OFFERINGS, which are voluntary offerings over and above the required ones.

Talk about ripping verses out of context.
You should be ASHAMED of yourself!
LOL

You imagine you refuted the KJV, the NAS, ASV,CSB

and you want to talk about hubris

not to mentiojn those many other translation

or the fact than all other translation refer to the same thing

free will
[ˌfrē ˈwil]

NOUN
  1. the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
    synonyms:
    volition · independence · self-determination · self-sufficiency · autonomy · spontaneity · freedom · liberty · voluntarily · willingly · readily · freely · spontaneously · without reluctance · without being forced · without being asked · without being encouraged · of one's own accord · of one's own volition · of one's own choosing · by one's own preference
If anyone need be ashamed it would be you
 
LOL

You imagine you refuted the KJV, the NAS, ASV,CSB

and you want to talk about hubris

not to mentiojn those many other translation

or the fact than all other translation refer to the same thing

free will
[ˌfrē ˈwil]

NOUN
  1. the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
    synonyms:
    volition · independence · self-determination · self-sufficiency · autonomy · spontaneity · freedom · liberty · voluntarily · willingly · readily · freely · spontaneously · without reluctance · without being forced · without being asked · without being encouraged · of one's own accord · of one's own volition · of one's own choosing · by one's own preference
If anyone need be ashamed it would be you
Ditto
 
Tsk TSK

(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, but of free will.
(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, but by the free will:
(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me out of your own free will without feeling forced to do it.
(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but according to your own free will.
(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, but of your own free will.
(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.
(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force but by free will.
(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion but of your own free will. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.
(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
(NASB95) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TEV) 14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I would like for you to do it of your own free will. So I will not do anything unless you agree.
(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
CT 14 but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, but of free will.NENT 14 but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, but of free will.
SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, but according to free will.
(NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.
(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.
(EOB) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent: your goodness should not be forced, but of free will.

"free will"
Sigh. Paul is yielding to Philemon's authority over Onesimus. He is not writing a treatise asserting that man has a free will. For him to do so would be a contradiction of his assertions in Romans 6.

Lev 22:18
Speak to Aaron, and to his sons, and to all the children of Israel, and say to them, Whoever he may be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his free-will-offerings, which they will offer to the LORD for a burnt-offering:

Lev 22:21
And whoever offereth a sacrifice of peace-offerings to the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a free-will-offering in beeves, or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted: there shall be in it no blemish.

Lev 22:23
Either a bullock, or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a free-will-offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

Lev 23:38
Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your free-will-offerings, which ye give to the LORD.

Num 15:3
And will make an offering by fire to the LORD, a burnt-offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a free-will-offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savor to the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

Num 29:39
These things ye shall do to the LORD in your set feasts, besides your vows, and your free will-offerings, for your burnt-offerings, and for your meat-offerings, and for your drink-offerings, and for your peace-offerings.

Deut 12:6
And thither ye shall bring your burnt-offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave-offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your free-will-offerings, and the firstlings of your herds, and of your flocks:

Deut 12:17
Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy free-will-offerings, or heave-offering of thy hand:

Deut 16:10
And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks to the LORD thy God with a tribute of a free-will-offering of thy hand, which thou shalt give to the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

Deut 23:23
That which is uttered by thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a free-will-offering, according as thou hast vowed to the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

2 Chron 31:14
And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter towards the east, was over the free-will-offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.

Ezra 1:4
And whoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, besides the free-will-offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

Ezra 3:5
And afterward offered the continual burnt-offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a free-will-offering to the LORD.

Ezra 7:13
I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, who are disposed of their own free will to go to Jerusalem, go with thee.

Ezra 7:16
And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the free-will-offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:

Ezra 8:28
And I said to them, Ye are holy to the LORD; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a free-will-offering to the LORD God of your fathers.

Ps 119:108
Accept, I beseech thee, the free-will-offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.
Those refer only to voluntary sacrifices regulated by the Mosaic law. They do not assert the freedom of man's in any other siruation(s).
 
Denial is not going to change the facts

(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, but of free will.
(GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, but by the free will:
(GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me out of your own free will without feeling forced to do it.
(csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
(LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but according to your own free will.
(MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, but of your own free will.
(MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.
(NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force but by free will.
(WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion but of your own free will. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.
(NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
(NASB95) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
(TEV) 14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I would like for you to do it of your own free will. So I will not do anything unless you agree.
(ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
CT 14 but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, but of free will.NENT 14 but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, but of free will.

SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, but according to free will.

(NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.

(REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, but of your own free will.

(EOB) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent: your goodness should not be forced, but of free will.


"free will"

HBCONTCV 17 results in 17 verses

Lev 22:18
Speak to Aaron, and to his sons, and to all the children of Israel, and say to them, Whoever he may be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his free-will-offerings, which they will offer to the LORD for a burnt-offering:

Lev 22:21
And whoever offereth a sacrifice of peace-offerings to the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a free-will-offering in beeves, or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted: there shall be in it no blemish.

Lev 22:23
Either a bullock, or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a free-will-offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

Lev 23:38
Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your free-will-offerings, which ye give to the LORD.

Num 15:3
And will make an offering by fire to the LORD, a burnt-offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a free-will-offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savor to the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

Num 29:39
These things ye shall do to the LORD in your set feasts, besides your vows, and your free will-offerings, for your burnt-offerings, and for your meat-offerings, and for your drink-offerings, and for your peace-offerings.

Deut 12:6
And thither ye shall bring your burnt-offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave-offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your free-will-offerings, and the firstlings of your herds, and of your flocks:

Deut 12:17
Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy free-will-offerings, or heave-offering of thy hand:

Deut 16:10
And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks to the LORD thy God with a tribute of a free-will-offering of thy hand, which thou shalt give to the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

Deut 23:23
That which is uttered by thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a free-will-offering, according as thou hast vowed to the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

2 Chron 31:14
And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter towards the east, was over the free-will-offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.

Ezra 1:4
And whoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, besides the free-will-offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

Ezra 3:5
And afterward offered the continual burnt-offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a free-will-offering to the LORD.

Ezra 7:13
I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, who are disposed of their own free will to go to Jerusalem, go with thee.

Ezra 7:16
And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the free-will-offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:

Ezra 8:28
And I said to them, Ye are holy to the LORD; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a free-will-offering to the LORD God of your fathers.

Ps 119:108
Accept, I beseech thee, the free-will-offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.


Exported from Logos Bible Software, 1:31 PM June 13, 2022.
Refuted HERE
 
Sigh. Paul is yielding to Philemon's authority over Onesimus. He is not writing a treatise asserting that man has a free will. For him to do so would be a contradiction of his assertions in Romans 6.


Those refer only to voluntary sacrifices regulated by the Mosaic law. They do not assert the freedom of man's in any other siruation(s).
Again, if the concept of free will is stated in several places old and new testament, then the concept is true. To try to change that by addressing HOW the free will was exercised, in what capacity or event, that seems illogical. Does the Bible speak of free will? Yes it does? Do the verses explaining certain uses of it dictate that it has no other uses? No.
 
Sigh. Paul is yielding to Philemon's authority over Onesimus. He is not writing a treatise asserting that man has a free will. For him to do so would be a contradiction of his assertions in Romans 6.


Those refer only to voluntary sacrifices regulated by the Mosaic law. They do not assert the freedom of man's in any other siruation(s).
Sorry you are simply denying the text

One can be a slave to sin and still have free will

as no one posits an absolutely free will but one that is limited

further free will may be lost in particular applications depending on previous behavior

Philemon 14 (NASB) — 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
 
Sorry you are simply denying the text

One can be a slave to sin and still have free will

as no one posits an absolutely free will but one that is limited

further free will may be lost in particular applications depending on previous behavior

Philemon 14 (NASB) — 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
Interesting. Yes. Just looked up Strongs concerning that word and he says it is "of free will"
 
Again, if the concept of free will is stated in several places old and new testament, then the concept is true. To try to change that by addressing HOW the free will was exercised, in what capacity or event, that seems illogical. Does the Bible speak of free will? Yes it does? Do the verses explaining certain uses of it dictate that it has no other uses? No.
Your logic leads to a scripture contradicting itself -- Romans 6 makes the concept of the Bondage of the will either to sin, or to righteousness real.

Thete is a context to the verses cited by @fltom. Stick to the context.
 
Interesting. Yes. Just looked up Strongs concerning that word and he says it is "of free will"
yes and

ἑκούσιος, ία, ιον (Soph., Thu.+; inscr., pap., LXX, Philo) voluntary, as a volunteer κατὰ ἑκούσιον (opp. κατὰ ἀνάγκην) of one’s own free will Phlm 14 (Num 15:3 καθʼ ἑκούσιον; Thu. 8, 27, 3 καθʼ ἑκουσίαν [sc. γνώμην]; as opposed to legal compulsion, cf. Plut., Mor. 446E). Of apostates MPol 4. M-M.*

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 243.
 
Your logic leads to a scripture contradicting itself -- Romans 6 makes the concept of the Bondage of the will either to sin, or to righteousness real.

Thete is a context to the verses cited by @fltom. Stick to the context.
how does the "bondage of the will" negate the reality of free will? Can you explain from Romans 6 what you are seeing?
 
How does reposting the same refuted list of translations achieve anything, other than to waste CARM resources?

14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord.(ESV)

14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary. (NIV)

14 But without thy mynde woulde I do nothyng, that thy benefite shoulde not be as it were of necessitie, but willingly. (Bishop's)

14 But without thy counsel I would do nothing: that thy good deed might not be as it were of necessity, but voluntary. (Rheims)

14 but I have wished to do nothing without thy mind, that thy good might not be as of necessity but of willingness: (Darby)

14 But without thy minde woulde I doe nothing, that thy benefite should not be as it were of necessitie, but willingly. (Geneva)

14 However, without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your good deed would not be out of compulsion, but from your own willingness. (NET)

14 But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent. I wanted you to help because you were willing, not because you were forced. (NLT)

14 Neverthelesse without thy mynde wolde I doo nothinge that yt good which springeth of the shuld not be as it were of necessitie but willingly. (Tyndale)

14 But without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly. (Webster)

14 Only I wished to do nothing without your consent, so that his kind action of yours might not be done under pressure, but might be a voluntary one. (Weymouth)

14 and apart from thy mind I willed to do nothing, that as of necessity thy good deed may not be, but of willingness, (Young's)


None of these translations mention "free will". They only mention "voluntarily", or "willingly".

14 χωρὶς δὲ τῆς σῆς γνώμης οὐδὲν ἠθέλησα ποιῆσαι, ἵνα μὴ ὡς κατὰ ἀνάγκην τὸ ἀγαθόν σου ᾖ, ἀλλὰ κατὰ ἑκούσιον. (GNT)

There is no word here which means "free".




So you simply and mindlessly did an electronic "search" for a phrase, without even understanding what these verses are talking about.

As both Howie and I have explained to you MANY times (and I really don't understand your obsession with repeating your arguments ten million times, and thereby wasting CARM resources), these are NOT referring to man's imaginary "free will", they are simply describing the OFFERINGS, which are voluntary offerings over and above the required ones.

Talk about ripping verses out of context.
You should be ASHAMED of yourself!
Give it up Theo

BDAG refutes you

ἑκούσιος, ία, ιον (Soph., Thu.+; inscr., pap., LXX, Philo) voluntary, as a volunteer κατὰ ἑκούσιον (opp. κατὰ ἀνάγκην) of one’s own free will Phlm 14 (Num 15:3 καθʼ ἑκούσιον; Thu. 8, 27, 3 καθʼ ἑκουσίαν [sc. γνώμην]; as opposed to legal compulsion, cf. Plut., Mor. 446E). Of apostates MPol 4. M-M.*

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 243.

Its you denials which were refuted

by the various translations and lexicons and dictionaries
 
Sorry you are simply denying the text
You're denying the context of the text.
One can be a slave to sin and still have free will
Slave and free are antonyms

as no one posits an absolutely free will but one that is limited
It doesn't matter to me what you posit. What matters to me is what scripture says, and the context in which scripture says what says. That doesn't matter to you, does it?

further free will may be lost in particular applications depending on previous behavior
Meaningless word salad

Philemon 14 (NASB) — 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.
Already corrected you on that, HERE.
 
Interesting. Yes. Just looked up Strongs concerning that word and he says it is "of free will"

Keep in mind that the context of fltom's verses never include God as the reference point for freedom...

We all believe we are free from our neighbors and other created things.

His verses can not prove "freedom" from God.

...
 
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