Unconditional election unto damnation.

eternomade

Well-known member
1 Samuel describes Eli and his two sons who were wicked men. The LORD says this is chapter 3 verse 14:

And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.
1 Samuel 3:14 KJV

No matter what these men did God promised them that they would never be forgiven. Does this make God unfair? I say no, they deserved hell.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:16 KJV
 
1 Samuel describes Eli and his two sons who were wicked men. The LORD says this is chapter 3 verse 14:

And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.
1 Samuel 3:14 KJV

No matter what these men did God promised them that they would never be forgiven. Does this make God unfair? I say no, they deserved hell.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:16 KJV
God's plan for mercy is to justify those that believe

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 11:19–23 (KJV 1900) — 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
 
Rubbish!

God justifies the ungodly (Rom 4:5).

No one is able to believe on his own.
the ungodly who believe

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 4:3–5 (KJV 1900) — 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you seem to have a real problem with scripture
 

Unconditional election unto damnation.​


Many misunderstand Unconditional election as God choosing amongst people within the “timeline of creation” conditioned on something they achieve but that is a wrong understanding.

God predetermined the purpose of all things before he made them for that purpose… and that purpose was not conditioned on anything those things achieved within the timeline of creation…

… and the end result of that predetermined, unconditional, purpose for each individual may result in them being saved in the end like us… or it may result in them being damned in the end like Pharaoh.

“The LORD has made everything for its purpose… (Pro 16:4a)

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.” (Eph 1:3-6)


even the wicked for the day of trouble.” (Pro 16:4b)

“For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”” (Rom 9:17)


 
Many misunderstand Unconditional election as God choosing amongst people within the “timeline of creation” conditioned on something they achieve but that is a wrong understanding.

God predetermined the purpose of all things before he made them for that purpose… and that purpose was not conditioned on anything those things achieved within the timeline of creation…

… and the end result of that predetermined, unconditional, purpose for each individual may result in them being saved in the end like us… or it may result in them being damned in the end like Pharaoh.

“The LORD has made everything for its purpose… (Pro 16:4a)

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.” (Eph 1:3-6)


even the wicked for the day of trouble.” (Pro 16:4b)

“For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”” (Rom 9:17)


Few I believe would hold to any such thing

In any case there exist no unconditional election to salvation in Eph 1:4

as those blessing are available only in christ

and no one is in Christ until they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

men are in Christ in time not eternity

Romans 16:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.



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Few I believe would hold to any such thing

And those who don’t make God a “respecter of persons”…

In any case there exist no unconditional election to salvation in Eph 1:4

as those blessing are available only in christ

The fact that some blessings are reserved for those believing, does not negate other blessings that are for all chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

and no one is in Christ until they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

men are in Christ in time not eternity

Romans 16:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

“But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.” (2Th 2:13)

“and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.” (Act 13:48)

“For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” (1Co 1:18)

“And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,” (1Co 1:30)



We were purposed to be in Christ “in time” from before the foundation of the world…

 
And those who don’t make God a “respecter of persons”…



The fact that some blessings are reserved for those believing, does not negate other blessings that are for all chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.



“But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.” (2Th 2:13)

“and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.” (Act 13:48)

“For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” (1Co 1:18)

“And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,” (1Co 1:30)



We were purposed to be in Christ “in time” from before the foundation of the world…
Sorry but you altering scripture

The verse says nothing at all about being purposed to be in Christ

It does say God has chosen individuals who are in Christ

and that God has chosen this group of individuals for a predetermined end

to be holy and blameless before him in love.......
 
the ungodly who believe

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Romans 9:30–32 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 4:3–5 (KJV 1900) — 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you seem to have a real problem with scripture
God justifies the ungodly rom 4:5
 

Unconditional election unto damnation.​


No one is elected unto damnation. Election deals with salvation, not reprobation. God justly leaves them, the non-elect, in their already condemned in Adam state.
Do you consider God making two vessels from the same lump of clay is describing election/reprobation?
 
God justifies the ungodly rom 4:5
When they believe

Romans 4:3–5 (KJV 1900) — 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you still have a problem with scripture
 
When they believe

Romans 4:3–5 (KJV 1900) — 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you still have a problem with scripture
No. Believing is godly. God justifies the ungodly Rom 4:5.

Think, man! ... smh
 
Do you consider God making two vessels from the same lump of clay is describing election/reprobation?
When Adam fell, we all fell, being in Adam. God did not have to do one thing to damn all of mankind, as that damnation was an already reality. But for Him to save them, He had to do something, elect them. So, election has to do with God choosing them. As Dr. Sproul put it, it’s a positive-negative here.
 
When Adam fell, we all fell, being in Adam. God did not have to do one thing to damn all of mankind, as that damnation was an already reality. But for Him to save them, He had to do something, elect them. So, election has to do with God choosing them. As Dr. Sproul put it, it’s a positive-negative here.
If God chose Adam to fall that is election isn't it? Are we speaking past each other? Do you believe Adam had another choice? I see that God chose some in Adam and some in Christ.
 
If God chose Adam to fall that is election isn't it? Are we speaking past each other? Do you believe Adam had another choice? I see that God chose some in Adam and some in Christ.
I agree that Adam‘s fall was not a surprise to God, seeing He was the One who planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden, the very thing that caused him to fall.
 
1 Samuel describes Eli and his two sons who were wicked men. The LORD says this is chapter 3 verse 14:

And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.
1 Samuel 3:14 KJV

No matter what these men did God promised them that they would never be forgiven. Does this make God unfair? I say no, they deserved hell.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:16 KJV
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Rev 22:17 - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
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Act 16:30 - And brought them out,and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
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Act 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
 
1 Samuel describes Eli and his two sons who were wicked men. The LORD says this is chapter 3 verse 14:

And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.
1 Samuel 3:14 KJV

No matter what these men did God promised them that they would never be forgiven. Does this make God unfair? I say no, they deserved hell.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:16 KJV

They crossed the line of no return.

But not because they were created for it regardless of their actions, but because of the degree of their sin.
 
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