Unconditional election unto damnation.

This is nothing but worthless word salad.
I have no clue what you're even trying to say.
Here let John explain it for you.

John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
 
Here let John explain it for you.

John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

<Chuckle>

Why are anti-Calvinists so naive and uncharitable as to think that ANY verse of the Bible is a "gotcha!" against Calvinism?

We've read ALL of the Bible.
No verse refutes Calvinism.
So simply quoting a verse, or a passage, accomplishes NOTHING.
 
1- you may believe ie you have not believed , an unbeliever
2- that by believing, becoming a believer you may have life as a result of believing.

hope this helps !!!
 
Where does it say it doesn't ?

So you're making an argument from silence.
You're ASSUMING your theology and projecting it onto the text.

If you were still a Calvinist, and Doug or Tom made this argument, you would have called them out on it IMMEDIATELY.
 
You seem to be of the mind that scripture teaches both election, and not-election. That puts scripture at odds with itself.

Scripture is not at odds with itself.

Scripture teaches election, see this link.
No scripture never contradicts itself the confusion is man’s not Gods. We receive nothing spiritually from the Holy Spirit until we are mature enough. When God intervenes and He has and does for His purpose to be fulfilled before the world was created it’s election. There was no election involved when Adam disobeyed God that was his choice and God had already made a way for us to be bought out of sin as Jesus was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. It is not either or it is both as both are taught in scripture.
 
So you're making an argument from silence.
You're ASSUMING your theology and projecting it onto the text.

If you were still a Calvinist, and Doug or Tom made this argument, you would have called them out on it IMMEDIATELY.
No because the discussion is unbelievers who believe, not election.
 
You admit confusion.

Thanks for that admission.
Election and free will are both in scripture the confusion is putting every action of man under election. Question: since God commanded and warned Adam and Eve to NOT eat off of the tree of good and evil if He then DETERMINED for them to violate His command and warning wouldn’t that make God a liar ? He told them don’t if He determined for them to do what He forbid them not to do He would not be honest, and that is NOT the God of scripture. When you remove free will from mankind you make God responsible for others sins, rebellion, and evilness.God is Holy not evil, and scripture says that God cannot lie.
 
Election and free will are both in scripture the confusion is putting every action of man under election. Question: since God commanded and warned Adam and Eve to NOT eat off of the tree of good and evil if He then DETERMINED for them to violate His command and warning wouldn’t that make God a liar ? He told them don’t if He determined for them to do what He forbid them not to do He would not be honest, and that is NOT the God of scripture. When you remove free will from mankind you make God responsible for others sins, rebellion, and evilness.God is Holy not evil, and scripture says that God cannot lie.
I would say this would definitely make God a Liar; and the Author of Sin...

But of course, I wouldn't phrase the reality that way...
 
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Election and free will are both in scripture the confusion is putting every action of man under election.
Where is your free will expounded in scripture?

Question: since God commanded and warned Adam and Eve to NOT eat off of the tree of good and evil if He then DETERMINED for them to violate His command and warning wouldn’t that make God a liar ?
Your question is moot. Adam disobeyed. Deal with what is true, not with what is irrelevant.

He told them don’t if He determined for them to do what He forbid them not to do He would not be honest, and that is NOT the God of scripture.
Moot.

When you remove free will from mankind you make God responsible for others sins, rebellion, and evilness.God is Holy not evil, and scripture says that God cannot lie.
Where is your free will expounded in scripture?
 
Where is your free will expounded in scripture?


Your question is moot. Adam disobeyed. Deal with what is true, not with what is irrelevant.


Moot.


Where is your free will expounded in scripture?
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Jos 24:15 - And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house,we will serve the Lord.
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Act 16:30 - And brought them out,and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

The Jailer Converted​

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Act 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.Jhn 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begottenSon, that whosoever believes in himshould not perish, but have everlastinglife.
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Rev 22:17 - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
 
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Unchecked Copy Box
Jos 24:15 - And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house,we will serve the Lord.

That doesn't say "free will".
That says "choose".

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Act 16:30 - And brought them out,and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

The Jailer Converted​

Tools
Unchecked Copy Box
Act 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
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Jhn 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begottenSon, that whosoever believes in himshould not perish, but have everlasting life

That doesn't say "free will".
That says, "believe".

I hope everyone can see how the free-willers can't defend their bogus teachings.
 
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Jos 24:15 - And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house,we will serve the Lord.
Unchecked Copy Box
Act 16:30 - And brought them out,and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

The Jailer Converted​

Tools
Unchecked Copy Box
Act 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.Jhn 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begottenSon, that whosoever believes in himshould not perish, but have everlastinglife.
Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 22:17 - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
You're not proving free will, you're assuming free will.

When did you choose any of the circumstances of your birth?
 
Where is your free will expounded in scripture?


Your question is moot. Adam disobeyed. Deal with what is true, not with what is irrelevant.


Moot.


Where is your free will expounded in scripture?
Is it not relevant when some doctrines and dogmas make God out to be a liar and dishonest ? God commanded and warned Adam and Eve to Not eat off of the tree of good and evil correct ? If God through election determined Adam and Eve to violate His command to not eat off of that tree through His election that would make God a dishonest liar. Deal with the truth and the facts God cannot lie so it is patently wrong to blame God for Adam and Eves disobedience.
 
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Jos 24:15 - And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house,we will serve the Lord.
Unchecked Copy Box
Act 16:30 - And brought them out,and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

The Jailer Converted​

Tools
Unchecked Copy Box
Act 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.Jhn 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begottenSon, that whosoever believes in himshould not perish, but have everlastinglife.
Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 22:17 - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Amen
 
Is it not relevant when some doctrines and dogmas make God out to be a liar and dishonest ?
Nonsense.

God commanded and warned Adam and Eve to Not eat off of the tree of good and evil correct ? If God through election determined Adam and Eve to violate His command to not eat off of that tree through His election that would make God a dishonest liar.
Appeal to emotion fallacy.

Deal with the truth and the facts God cannot lie so it is patently wrong to blame God for Adam and Eves disobedience.
I have never blamed God for Adam and Eve's disobedience. That is a straw man.

My position has always been, God is soveteign over all things, and man isvtesponsible for his actions. That is clearky and simply stated several times in Acts, but my Lk 22:22:

And the Son of man goes as it is appointed; but woe be to that man by whom he is betrayed.
 
My first birth (physical) I had no input obviously, but my second birth when God drew me to His Son I believed and said yes to God; however, many say no to God.
You came into this world without a free will.
You came into this world a slave to sin, and by God's grace and election, you are now a slave to righteousness (cf Rom 6).

Explain to me how you've come to understand scripture's description of your will as a slave to mean something it isn't; namely free?
 
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