Unconditional election unto damnation.

It was a mixed group. Thus, JEWS. Not hard to understand at all. If it were exclusively Pharisees I would accept your argument.

Your position is self serving.

Your insistence that there were no Pharisees in the group is ridiculous.

Either way, the young man came to Jesus because the Father drawed him. The young man left empty.
ditto so much for the "drawing " concept.
 
It was a mixed group. Thus, JEWS. Not hard to understand at all. If it were exclusively Pharisees I would accept your argument. Your position is self serving.

Your insistence that there were no Pharisees in the group is ridiculous.

The writer says it was "THE JEWS."

You say, "it was a mixed group."

What the writer has written is God's word. What you have written are ridiculous, self serving, false words.

I'm sticking with God, not you.

Either way, the young man came to Jesus because the Father drawed [sic] him. The young man left empty.
No, the Father did not draw Him to Jesus.

Read carefully Jn 6:64-65: But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”[/]

The young man left empty because, though he was at the event, he came on His own; he WAS NOT DRAWN TO CHRIST BY THE FATHER. He was not drawn to Christ at all, and thus he left, as Jesus reiterates in v65 -- those who walked away were not drawn by the Father.
 
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That is your claim. Your claim is empty. You still insist that Jesus had disciples that were mocking Him. Your response is ridiculous.
Her claim is true. Read the entire passage about what Jesus said in the synagogue (vv52-66), and how his disciples were grumbling about what He said, and how many left Him.

Try to a get a clue about the passage so you don't expose yourself as clueless as you attack my sister, @Beloved Daughter, who clearly is more versed in scripture than you are. 😒
 
The writer says it was "THE JEWS."

You say, "it was a mixed group."

What the writer has written is God's word. What you have written are ridiculous, self serving, false words.

I'm sticking with God, not you.

I understand. Your "house of cards" is falling and you're angry. I have no idea why you think "THE JEWS" means anything less than a mixed group of the descendants of Abraham.

No, the Father did not draw Him to Jesus.

Read carefully Jn 6:64-65: But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”[/]

The young man left empty because, though he was at the event, he came on His own; he WAS NOT DRAWN TO CHRIST BY THE FATHER. He was not drawn to Christ at all, and thus he left, as Jesus reiterates in v65 -- those who walked away were not drawn by the Father.

I've read it carefully for many many years.

John 6:64-65 is just a continuation of what Jesus had already said very clearly.

It is so abundantly clear that many have come to Jesus and left empty. You are conflating two different things. You are trying to falsely claim that all those that come to Jesus are saved. We know they are not.

Except the Father draw a man, NO ONE can come to Jesus. Such a statement establishes the Unity between Father and Son. It does not teach that everyone that comes to Jesus will be born again.
 
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Her claim is true. Read the entire passage about what Jesus said in the synagogue (vv52-66), and how his disciples were grumbling about what He said, and how many left Him.

I've read it. I never said there were not ANY disciples there. I've said they were not exclusively disciples. Again. Mixed multitude. The same that came out of Egypt. Some saved. Some not. All descendants of Abraham. Why is this so difficult for you?


Try to a get a clue about the passage so you don't expose yourself as clueless as you attack my sister, @Beloved Daughter, who clearly is more versed in scripture than you are. 😒

She clearly isn't. She is making the same mistakes you are. I'm you brother in Jesus Christ. You have no reason to treat me any differently than you do "your sister"....

I suppose when you talk about God demanding that all men be loved equally, you don't really believe it. You prefer some don't you?
 
Hey, if you are not in the special "elect" club why should you be treated with any respect?!

Because God commanded us to?
Because we are just as deserving of condemnation as they are?

It’s sad seeing the evil hearts of some posters here, based on the questions I see.
 
Re-read my post. I never said it was.


Re-read my post. I never said it wasn't.
You did say

V9 ... [salvation] is not on the basis of works = unconditional election.

that is not unconditional elect

salvation is by grace through faith

Faith is a condition

and faith is still not a work
 
Already answered Here.
Nope

There is no evidence they were disciples or learners of Christ

and Christ refuted you

John 6:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
 
I understand. Your "house of cards" is falling and you're angry.
How can one understand that which isn't occurring? Answer: By not truly understanding that which he claims to understand ... 😏

I have no idea why you think "THE JEWS" means anything less than a mixed group of the descendants of Abraham.
I explained that to you in my first post to you on the subject. Perhaps you missed, or you didn't understand it, or you are simply choosing to ignore it.

I've read it carefully for many many years.

John 6:64-65 is just a continuation of what Jesus had already said very clearly.

It is so abundantly clear that many have come to Jesus and left empty. You are conflating two different things. You are trying to falsely claim that all those that come to Jesus are saved. We know they are not.
It's clear that you understand neither what Jesus is saying, nor what I am claiming.

In vv 35-37, Jesus identifies two distinct groups of those who come to Him. There are those who come to Him to believe in Him. They are those drawn to Him by the Father. And, there are those who come to Him only to see Him, but not to believe in Him. They are those not drawn to Him by the Father (v35; vv64-65).

Except the Father draw a man, NO ONE can come to Jesus. Such a statement establishes the Unity between Father and Son.
Baloney. In order for something to be estsblished by a statement in the passage said statement must be stated in the passage. The unity of God is nowhere stated in the passage we are discussing. Case closed.

It does not teach that everyone that comes to Jesus will be born again.
I agree, and using the words of Jesus, I have explained, to you, why that is above.
 
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How can one understand that which isn't occurring? Answer: By not truly understanding that which he claims to understand ... 😏


I explained that to you in my first post to you on the subject. Perhaps you missed, or you didn't understand it, or you are simply choosing to ignore it.


It's clear that you understsnd neither what Jesus is saying, nor what I am claiming.

In vv 35-37, Jesus identifies two distinct groups of those who come to Him. There are those who come to Him to believe in Him. They are those drawn to Him by the Father. And, there are those who come to Him only to see Him, but not to believe in Him. They are those not drawn to Him by the Father (v35; vv64-65).


Baloney. In order for something to be estsblished by a statement in the passage said statement must stated in the passage. The unity of God is nowhere stated in the passage we are discussing. Case closed.


I agree, and using the words of Jesus, I have explained, to you, why that is above.
You are in error Howie

Follow the context

John 6:24–41 (KJV 1900) — 24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus. 25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither? 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

Christ speaking to but one group throughout

they followed him because they were fed but they did not believe

It is these who murmer

They were not his disciples
 
Nope

There is no evidence they were disciples or learners of Christ

and Christ refuted you

John 6:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
The readers wiil decide which of us is correct, Tom.
 
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