Unforgiving servant, question for calvinists

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
Hades is the nether world. The KJV uses hell in lieu of hades. Hades is where the dead in sins go to to await final judgment.
Did you realize your mistake? Seems like you just glossed over it......... That hell and the lake of fire are not the same? Hell is a prison where the Father's naughty , disobedient, non-fruitful, foolish, non-overcoming children are going awaiting the final judgement.
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
@Oldsaint24

Do you believe this refers to the millenial hell for the unregenerate children of God? Is Luke 12 applicable for us today?
First....there are NO "unregenerate" children of God. What makes one a child of God is.being born from above by the Holy Spirit....being regenerate. Do you understand.....when the Holy Spirit regenerates the children of promise , He is giving birth to a new spirit within that was not present prior to regeneration. This new spirit that has been given erases the corruption of the fall and is the pure grace of God. Prior to regeneration God looks down upon children of men and sees corrupt/fallen creatures who are spiritually dead/void. After the regeneration God the Father sees new born babes restored back into His image and likeness how now have eyes and ears to see and hear the divine truths.

As for Lk. 12 it applies to the naughty, foolish, disobedient, those children who are not ready , who have not overcome. Yes they are going to be punish in prison/hell during the millennium.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Hell is cast into the lake of fire after the millennium. Therefore, disobedient, naughty, foolish, lawless children of God in hell/prison are NOT in the lake of fire.
That's wonderful OS I'm glad to hear it. What would be even better would be if you could teach that to us. Use some Bible verses maybe some stuff from good Bible commentary or sermon from a top theologian. That would be excellent.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Purgatory is a false doctrine.....most likely created by Satan to hide the real truth...which I have been writing. Hey, Jesus teaches that disobedient children of God are going to be cast into prison. You know, the one whom he erased their names from His book of life.....Those, foolish, those who fail to overcome, the lawless children, those who do not bear fruit.....yea those. And please don't tell me that children of God cannot be any of those.
Okay I won't tell you that because obviously you don't want to hear the truth. Read my signature Please.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Jesus' warnings and admonitions to the children of God about the possibility of failing to inherit the kingdom are abundant. Do you deny this?
As Christians we ARE warned; we can potentially lose our Salvation. I say it like this; as parents we want our Children to reach their potential, but not like that! God is our parent now, and he will lose none; so it can only ever be an 'Unrealized Potential"...
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
Jesus' warnings and admonitions to the children of God about the possibility of failing to inherit the kingdom are abundant. Do you deny this?
There are abundant! What's also abundant is your clear understanding of false doctrine. And for the record I don't care if you deny this or not. I've studied out the heresy that you're trying (and not doing a very good job) of laying down here and I'm not buying into it. But feel free to continue posting the same dribble over and over.
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
As Christians we ARE warned; we can potentially lose our Salvation. I say it like this; as parents we want our Children to reach their potential, but not like that! God is our parent now, and he will lose none; so it can only ever be an 'Unrealized Potential"...
A couple things need to be defined.....Christian?.......Salvation? As far as your statement.......A spiritually alive child of God will never loose eternal life with the Father....thus eternal salvation is secure. Once one is a child of God he will always be a child of God and live with God in the forever.

As for inheriting the kingdom , yet to come? Not a done deal for the child of God.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
A couple things need to be defined.....Christian?.......Salvation? As far as your statement.......A spiritually alive child of God will never loose eternal life with the Father....thus eternal salvation is secure. Once one is a child of God he will always be a child of God and live with God in the forever.

As for inheriting the kingdom , yet to come? Not a done deal for the child of God.
Sure it is, we're seated with Jesus in the Heavelies now...
 

Septextura

Well-known member
@Oldsaint24

Do you know what the doctrinal difference is between eternal security and perseverance of the saints? Calvinism holds to the later.

The saints, unlike others, are convicted at the heart by the Holy Spirit when exhorted by the words of Christ or other saints. It's a means of sanctification, it's a hands on process by God. Otherwise we might as well be OT Jews trying not to die under the Law by our own efforts. The Holy Spirit sanctifies the members of the body of Christ.

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Romans 8
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Read Hebrews 12 in full to understand chastisement.

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
 
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SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Did you realize your mistake? Seems like you just glossed over it......... That hell and the lake of fire are not the same? Hell is a prison where the Father's naughty , disobedient, non-fruitful, foolish, non-overcoming children are going awaiting the final judgement.
They are brought out of hades, not hell, given their rightly guilty verdict, and then cast into hell. It’s really that simple.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
As for Lk. 12 it applies to the naughty, foolish, disobedient, those children who are not ready , who have not overcome. Yes they are going to be punish in prison/hell during the millennium.

Luke 12 is about Israel missing the Messiah at the appointed time, save the remnant that founded the church. So is the parable of the 10 virgins. These are your markers.

Matt. 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Luke 21:32
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

You are technically correct its about naughty children, but your eschatology is off, and that affects your understanding of soteriology the way it does. A lot of exhortations from Christ are specific to the Jews and Israel who will soon be destroyed in 70AD.
 
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Septextura

Well-known member
They are brought out of hades, not hell, given their rightly guilty verdict, and then cast into hell. It’s really that simple.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

There's no mention of naughty Saints in hell (the bad part of Sheol aka "death and hell") during a millennium. The Saints are resurrected and rule in heaven until judgment day. Those judged by their works are not believers. Then it's the lake of fire as final destination for the damned.

Have I got this right?
 
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SovereignGrace

Well-known member
There's no mention of saints in hell (the bad part of Sheol) during a millennium. Only the Saints are resurrected until judgment day. Then it's the lake of fire as final destination for the damned.

Have I got this right?
I’m somewhere between Histori-PreMill and amillennialism, as I am wondering if the 1,000 years is literal or figurative. The saints die and go to be with the Lord, the lost go to hades. I don’t think hades and the lake of fire(Gehenna) are the same place.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
I’m somewhere between Histori-PreMill and amillennialism, as I am wondering if the 1,000 years is literal or figurative. The saints die and go to be with the Lord, the lost go to hades. I don’t think hades and the lake of fire(Gehenna) are the same place.

They are not. Sheol (Hades in Greek) has a good section (bosom of Abraham) and a bad place of torment (hell). Christ emptied the good section when he visited before His resurrection.

Ephesians 4
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

We don't need to determine if the millennium is literally or figuratively 1000 years for this particular exercise.

@Oldsaint24 says Saints who aren't overcomers over sin will go in hell during a millennium. This means they will be resurrected together with the unbelievers and all judged by their works. This makes no sense to me because by works they ended up in hell and by the same will end up in the lake of fire.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
Are there good and bad sheep?

Matthew 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Are there good and bad sheep?
A more relevant question to ask would be, what constitutes, or defines the “sheep”? If we want to be classed among the “sheep,” what would we need to do? The scripture you quoted tells you:

Matthew 25:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.


In other words, it is all about doing, not just having faith or believing.
 
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