Unique Doctrines to Adventist Church ONLY ???

[SDAchristian]

No problem, it's easy enough to get tunnel vision and its not lost on me that my own Church and Doctrines are just as abhorrent (if not more) than the ones you hold to the majority of the visitors in this forum. So, just be aware, I can readily agree to that.

Thank you for your admission !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV Jn 15:8-10 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

All Christians are "Adventists" in that they look forward to the 2nd Coming of Christ.

I agree !!!

AV Mt 25:31-33 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

It when people start sorting before Christ does, that is the problem.

But the sorting criteria, are always up for discussion from Matthew 25. My favorite is How to discern those that reflect Jesus' likeness(much fruit) the best.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV Re 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

...
The name really stuck on that group of people who didn't have a Church to return to after Miller disbanded....
....These people (who were left) were unified by universal rejection of the Trinity.
....They didn't have a Church to "return to" - so they formed a tribe of sorts.
Soon clicks or cells started to form in this new group and the cells attempted to differentiate themselves....
...They did this by focusing on certain Doctrines that were "distinctive" even among themselves.
....Non-Trinitarians generally reject:

You say "unified by universal rejection of the Trinity".

I can say "unified by universal rejection" of all of GOD's creator rights.

AV 1Jn 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

And the right to execute "for the hour of his judgment is come" GOD's ultimate will on sin.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[pythons]

Since that is so, and admitted by our enemies, why then are we labelled as a 'cult' by so many? Why are we labelled as 'heterodox' by others who once carried the same doctrines as we do now? It is because each of them only carry a small portion of the truth they once taught and lived by now. In truth, they much more resemble their 'Mother' now than when they did in their infancy, and have given up on many of those which they once carried, and so we picked them up and dusted them off and placed them back in their glorious configuration.

Thank you for this statement Pythons. I hope others can acknowledge at least this much

I'm not aware of any denominations that once carried same Doctrines as the SDA's who now claim SDA's are heterodox? William Miller would have viewed the SDA Doctrine of God has heresy. The strongest arguments against Catholicism by far come by way of the Orthodox Church ( i.e. Greek Orthodox or simply Orthodox ).

The Creed is systematized Scripture, that's all it is so when a Church makes it a point to not affirm that and then lambasts other Churches for affirm the Creed that's a sure bet you're dealing with a heretical group.

 

[pythons]

Prologue:
AV Re 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

You say "unified by universal rejection of the Trinity".

I can say "unified by universal rejection" of all of GOD's creator rights.

AV 1Jn 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

And the right to execute "for the hour of his judgment is come" GOD's ultimate will on sin.

Yours in Christ, Michael

1 John 3, 8-9 also calls into question "The Great Controversy Theme" Ellen White shilled...
...As Ellen's GC Theme stated that Christ came to earth to vindicate God's holy law.
...Ellen also claimed that she vindicated God's holy law.

Ellen White
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). Christ did not come to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. He did not come to lessen the law of God in one particular. He came to express in His own person the love of God. He came to vindicate every precept of the holy law.--Ms 145, 1897, p. 4. ("Notes of Work," Dec. 30, 1897.) {11MR 345.3}

Ellen White
The sum and substance of the arguments of Satan is that sin may be immortalized, that Christ abolished the law, and that evil doers may be in favor with God. But the death of Christ tells a different story; for he died to vindicate the claims of the law, to give to the world and to angels an unanswerable argument of the immutability of the law of Jehovah. {ST, February 5, 1894 par. 11}

Ellen White
To be redeemed means to cease from sin. No heart that is stirred to rebellion against the law of God has any union with Christ, who died to vindicate the law and exalt it before all nations, tongues, and peoples

Ellen White R&H August 13, 1895, paragraph 6
Representing the law of God in its true character arouses the enmity of Satan. Those who love God with all the heart, will love the law of his kingdom. They will not only profess to be guided by its principles, but they will actually live them out, even in a world that is no more favorable to the development of Christian principles than were the inhabitants of the world before the flood, of whom it is written that the thoughts and imaginations of their hearts were evil, and only evil continually. A similar condition of society exists in our world today, and if those who claim to be God's commandment-keeping people do not put in practice the principles of the law which Christ came to our world to vindicate, pronouncing it holy, just, and good, they misrepresent the character and mission of their professed Master

Ellen also vindicated God's holy law according to what she wrote.

Ellen White
Satan will continue to bring in his erroneous theories and to claim that his sentiments are true. Seducing spirits are at work. I am to meet the danger positively, denying the right of anyone to use my writings to serve the devil's purpose to allure and deceive the people of God. God has spared my life that I may present the testimonies given me, to vindicate that which God vindicates, and to denounce every sophistry [intended] to deceive if possible the very elect.--Ms 126, 1905, pp. 3, 7. ("A Warning Against Present Dangers," typed December 29, 1905.) {5MR 144.1}

The above are definitely unique doctrines to the SDA Church...
....Lucifer put God into a pickle thereby forcing God to send Michael.
....So Michael could prove to aliens on other planets that God's holy Law was just and that man could keep it?

That's pretty far afield!

 

[SDAchristian]

Since that is so, and admitted by our enemies, why then are we labelled as a 'cult' by so many? Why are we labelled as 'heterodox' by others who once carried the same doctrines as we do now? It is because each of them only carry a small portion of the truth they once taught and lived by now. In truth, they much more resemble their 'Mother' now than when they did in their infancy, and have given up on many of those which they once carried, and so we picked them up and dusted them off and placed them back in their glorious configuration.
Thank you for this statement Pythons. I hope others can acknowledge at least this much.

I'm not aware of any denominations that once carried same Doctrines as the SDA's who now claim SDA's are heterodox? William Miller would have viewed the SDA Doctrine of God has heresy. The strongest arguments against Catholicism by far come by way of the Orthodox Church ( i.e. Greek Orthodox or simply Orthodox ).
The Creed is systematized Scripture, that's all it is so when a Church makes it a point to not affirm that and then lambasts other Churches for affirm the Creed that's a sure bet you're dealing with a heretical group.

FYI, @Vitamin-Christ has been MIA for a while. And their profile is not functioning, at this time.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue: Your research skills are admirable.

1 John 3, 8-9 also calls into question "The Great Controversy Theme" Ellen White shilled...
...As Ellen's GC Theme stated that Christ came to earth to vindicate God's holy law.
...Ellen also claimed that she vindicated God's holy law.
Ellen White
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). Christ did not come to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. He did not come to lessen the law of God in one particular. He came to express in His own person the love of God. He came to vindicate every precept of the holy law.--Ms 145, 1897, p. 4. ("Notes of Work," Dec. 30, 1897.) {11MR 345.3}
Ellen White
The sum and substance of the arguments of Satan is that sin may be immortalized, that Christ abolished the law, and that evil doers may be in favor with God. But the death of Christ tells a different story; for he died to vindicate the claims of the law, to give to the world and to angels an unanswerable argument of the immutability of the law of Jehovah. {ST, February 5, 1894 par. 11}
Ellen White
To be redeemed means to cease from sin. No heart that is stirred to rebellion against the law of God has any union with Christ, who died to vindicate the law and exalt it before all nations, tongues, and peoples
Ellen White R&H August 13, 1895, paragraph 6
Representing the law of God in its true character arouses the enmity of Satan. Those who love God with all the heart, will love the law of his kingdom. They will not only profess to be guided by its principles, but they will actually live them out, even in a world that is no more favorable to the development of Christian principles than were the inhabitants of the world before the flood, of whom it is written that the thoughts and imaginations of their hearts were evil, and only evil continually. A similar condition of society exists in our world today, and if those who claim to be God's commandment-keeping people do not put in practice the principles of the law which Christ came to our world to vindicate, pronouncing it holy, just, and good, they misrepresent the character and mission of their professed Master
Ellen also vindicated God's holy law according to what she wrote.
Ellen White
Satan will continue to bring in his erroneous theories and to claim that his sentiments are true. Seducing spirits are at work. I am to meet the danger positively, denying the right of anyone to use my writings to serve the devil's purpose to allure and deceive the people of God. God has spared my life that I may present the testimonies given me, to vindicate that which God vindicates, and to denounce every sophistry [intended] to deceive if possible the very elect.--Ms 126, 1905, pp. 3, 7. ("A Warning Against Present Dangers," typed December 29, 1905.) {5MR 144.1}
The above are definitely unique doctrines to the SDA Church...
....Lucifer put God into a pickle thereby forcing God to send Michael.
....So Michael could prove to aliens on other planets that God's holy Law was just and that man could keep it?
That's pretty far afield!

pythons, You would make a great Adventist. So when you see EGW prophecies come true, I will be the first to receive you back into fellowship again.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[pythons]

Prologue: Your research skills are admirable.

pythons, You would make a great Adventist. So when you see EGW prophecies come true, I will be the first to receive you back into fellowship again.

Yours in Christ, Michael

LOL, I'm glad that you care about my eternal destination. Its possible however that the EGW prophecies will never have fulfillment. I'm of the opinion that anyone that's properly catechized can participate in apologetics and be effective. I'd have to say that you put up better than most I've encountered. I do know an Adventist Pastor that helped me understand more about the Denomination than I used to. You'd make a great Catholic.

 

[ontheBeam]

Mike wrote:

So holding EGW as a Messenger of GOD is a unique doctrine of SDA Church. But many are confused as to how to understand or use that, even for some Adventists. "A Jehovah's Witness" would not qualify as matching Adventists on this discussion, on this topic.

Hi Mike. please unconfuse us as to how to understand or use her. Apparently we have been using her wrong because it has not changed your mind as to her veracity.

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV Ja 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy{G622 apollumi}: who art thou that judgest another?

how do you define first and second death? thanks.

AV Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy{G622 apollumi} both soul and body in hell.

First Death: "which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul", Which man or GOD can do to the flesh of the body.

AV Re 21:6-8 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is the direct testimony of Jesus !!!

Second Death AKA Soul Destruction or Annihilation: "which is able to destroy{G622 apollumi} both soul and body in hell.", Which ONLY GOD can do.

---

There is an old cliché: “If you have been born only once, you will have to die twice. But if you have been born twice, you will have to die only once (and you may even escape that one death if Jesus returns to the earth during your lifetime).”

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[pythons]

The Millerite message was a SHILL.

A person alive at that time could only judge the message BY THE ACTUAL MESSAGE (not what it should have been)...
...The message was "Jesus was gonna come back on X,Y, Z date - so repent and be ready.
...The message was FALSE, Jesus didn't come back.

Below is documentation as to what "Christians" said about "THE MESSAGE".

"I have frequently been asked if I believe Mr. Miller to be sincere. I have invariably answered in the affirmative. I cannot but suppose that Mr. M. is a pious, well-meaning man. I would advise him, in conclusion, if he would escape the distress I know it would cause him in his old age to have been unintentionally instrumental in the spread of infidelity, to go home and preach Christ crucified to perishing sinners, which I have no doubt he is qualified to do, and to waste no more of a life which might be valuable if rightly spent, in vainly attempting to make known those times and seasons which God hath wisely concealed from the ken of mortals, and "put into His own power." Pastor Dowling An Exposition of the Prophecies, Supposed by William Miller to Predict the Second Coming of Christ, in 1843 (baptiststudiesonline.com)

&

"Whether he has been first himself deceived, or whether he is wittingly practising a pious fraud, is known to the Searcher of hearts. I have but to point out sundry errors and weak places in his book; sufficient, however to destroy his credibility, but not to prove that the end of the word is distant; for "of that day knoweth no man"; and we are told that it is even hidden from the angels. If a man were to prophesy that, on a certain day during the next year, Washington city would be destroyed by an earthquake, who could positively declare the contrary? I pretend not to know that the world will survive the year 1843; but I think that Mr. William Miller knows as little about it as I do.

The Almighty has wisely hidden that day from us. Let the man who would rashly essay to raise the veil, ponder well upon the responsibility he assumes.

If Miller's calculations are correct, it is very evident that he is wiser than the angels, the prophets, the apostles, and the saints. It was an angel who was commanded to make Daniel understand the vision. Now, if that angel showed the prophet that the world would be destroyed in 2300 years, then is it not true, as Christ declared, that "of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." We are also informed that, "In such an hour as you think not, the Son of man cometh;" which will not be the case with the Millerites, if his prediction shall be fulfilled."

The above reaction where these Baptists rejected Miller's message BASED ON WHAT SCRIPTURE SAID TO DO infuriated Ellen & the other anti-Trinitarian SDA Pioneers. Below is Ellen White's "testimonies" against people who rejected Miller's Message that Jesus was returning on a specific date.

"The saints anxiously waited for their Lord with fasting, watching, and almost constant prayer. Even some sinners looked forward to the time with terror; but the great mass manifested the spirit of Satan in their opposition to the message. They mocked and scoffed, repeating everywhere, "No man knoweth the day nor the hour." Evil angels urged them on to harden their hearts and to reject every ray of light from heaven, that they might be fastened in the snare of Satan. Many who professed to be looking for Christ had no part in the work of the message."

"Satan and his angels triumphed over them, and those who would not receive the message congratulated themselves upon their farseeing judgment and wisdom in not receiving the delusion, as they called it. They did not realize that they were rejecting the counsel of God against themselves, and were working in union with Satan and his angels to perplex God's people, who were living out the heaven-sent message."

"The preaching of definite time called forth great opposition from all classes, from the minister in the pulpit down to the most reckless, heaven-daring sinner. "No man knoweth the day nor the hour," was heard from the hypocritical minister and the bold scoffer."


This demonstrates that IF Ellen White was really under the direction of God (as she claimed to be)...
...God REBUKED people for TESTING Miller's (& Ellen's) message BY THE SCRIPTURES.
...God also identified people who applied Scripture as "manifesting the spirit of SATAN".
...God also stated that rejecting this contrary to the Bible message proved you were:

"IN UNION WITH SATAN".

This incredible rubric deployed by Ellen White was used repeatedly to stomp down opposition to her "heavenly messages"

Ellen White
We are NOT to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. . . . And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, IF such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God” (1SM 161; CW 32; The Early Elmshaven Years 426).

The message is extremely CLEAR HERE - SCRIPTURE DOESN'T CONDEMN ANYTHING Ellen White says EVEN IF IT SEEMS TO -because- after all the Bible writers were God's penmen NOT HIS PEN. Ellen White was actually THE PEN OF INSPIRATION (like a sock puppet).

Sock Puppet
The Bible is written by inspired men, but IT is NOT God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, NOT His pen." (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, Chapter One "The Inspiration of the Prophetic Writers")

Sock Puppet
Before I stand on my feet, I have no thought of speaking as plainly as I do. But the Spirit of God rests upon me with power, and I cannot but speak the words given me. I dare not withhold one word of the testimony.... I speak the words given me by a higher power than human power, and I cannot, if I would, recall [retract] one sentence” (1MR 28).

Sock Puppet
There are those who say, ‘Someone MANIPULATES her writings.’ I acknowledge the charge. It is One who is mighty in counsel, One who presents before me the condition of things” (1MR 30).

Therefore, in closing certainly a distinctive doctrine of SDA's is that Ellen White's testimonies URSURP any persons interpretation of Scripture. Believe it or not this is more power than is asserted for the Pope.

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The self deceived are unable to apply "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" to themselves.

So holding EGW as a Messenger of GOD is a unique doctrine of SDA Church. But many are confused as to how to understand or use that, even for some Adventists. "A Jehovah's Witness" would not qualify as matching Adventists on this discussion, on this topic.

Hi Mike. please unconfuse us as to how to understand or use her. Apparently we have been using her wrong because it has not changed your mind as to her veracity.

AV Mt 22:35-40 Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked [him a question], tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

This discussion is not possible with anyone who do not meet the conditions listed here by Jesus.

Do you meet Jesus' conditions of love ???

---

AV Ga 1:12-13 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews'religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
AV Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

AV 1C 1:25-29 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]: 27 But hath God chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and hath God chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

If so, list your first accusation of confusion against EGW, just one for now ???
Maybe take this post, and start another thread with it.

---

AV 2Pt 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

"... because it has not changed your mind as to her veracity.", Let us be clear, THE ONLY 100% ERROR/sin free person is Jesus. So even Paul or any other prophet needs to be carefully read for spiritual comprehension, this includes EGW.

AV 1Ti 1:15-16 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

My conclusion here is EGW was no worse a sinner than Paul. Men chose to elevate Paul's writings to the level of scriptures. Some spiritual discernment is required for how others have handled EGW writings in the past, as some had with Paul's writings.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Formersda]

Prologue:
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The self deceived are unable to apply "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" to themselves.

AV Mt 22:35-40 Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked [him a question], tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

This discussion is not possible with anyone who do not meet the conditions listed here by Jesus.

Do you meet Jesus' conditions of love ???

---

AV Ga 1:12-13 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews'religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
AV Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

AV 1C 1:25-29 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]: 27 But hath God chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and hath God chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

If so, list your first accusation of confusion against EGW, just one for now ???
Maybe take this post, and start another thread with it.

---

AV 2Pt 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

"... because it has not changed your mind as to her veracity.", Let us be clear, THE ONLY 100% ERROR/sin free person is Jesus. So even Paul or any other prophet needs to be carefully read for spiritual comprehension, this includes EGW.

AV 1Ti 1:15-16 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

My conclusion here is EGW was no worse a sinner than Paul. Men chose to elevate Paul's writings to the level of scriptures. Some spiritual discernment is required for how others have handled EGW writings in the past, as some had with Paul's writings.

Yours in Christ, Michael

My conclusion here is EGW was no worse a sinner than Paul. Men chose to elevate Paul's writings to the level of scriptures. Some spiritual discernment is required for how others have handled EGW writings in the past, as some had with Paul's writings

Said like a true SDA Michael I would suggest the only reason you would say that is because Paul refutes all that is SDA doctrine. I don’t see why you use the Bible at all you may just as well quote EGW, oh yes you quote the Bible to back up EGW not the other way round.

By subscribing to Higher Criticism theology you are putting yourself above the Bible, putting your own interpretation on Scripture or EGW interpretation of scripture.

So no one else on these forums know how to interpret scripture except the SDA way.

As long as we all agree to see it your way through EGW it’s ok.

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Is it your assumption that, Jesus gave Paul the authority to assemble Gentiles on first/sun day of each week ???

My conclusion here is EGW was no worse a sinner than Paul. Men chose to elevate Paul's writings to the level of scriptures. Some spiritual discernment is required for how others have handled EGW writings in the past, as some had with Paul's writings
Said like a true SDA Michael I would suggest the only reason you would say that is because Paul refutes all that is SDA doctrine. I don’t see why you use the Bible at all you may just as well quote EGW, oh yes you quote the Bible to back up EGW not the other way round.
By subscribing to Higher Criticism theology you are putting yourself above the Bible, putting your own interpretation on Scripture or EGW interpretation of scripture.
So no one else on these forums know how to interpret scripture except the SDA way.
As long as we all agree to see it your way through EGW it’s ok.

Your opinions in these statements are obvious to me. The Climax of This Drama is GOD's Authority in Sabbath versus man's authority in the first/sun day. Martyrs and murderers will be distinguished in the mark of the beast, versus the Seal of GOD.

"because Paul refutes all that is SDA doctrine", I was saving this for @Buzzard, but I have this opportunity with you, about Paul.

AV Ac 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

AV Ac 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

When all the Jews are gone, Why did Paul agree to "the next sabbath", when "the next first day(on the morrow) was given to the Gentiles" ???

AV Ac 13:44-47 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Were there not pagan first day temples to preach in ???

Why not make a "uproar/condemn" over the first day given to the Gentiles in Paul's actions, by the Jews ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Therefore, in closing certainly a distinctive doctrine of SDA's is that Ellen White's testimonies URSURP any persons interpretation of Scripture. Believe it or not this is more power than is asserted for the Pope.

"Believe it or not this is more power than is asserted for the Pope.", It's your opinion to say so.

This post has many issues stated with their own pros and cons.

"Therefore, in closing certainly a distinctive doctrine of SDA's is that Ellen White's testimonies URSURP any persons interpretation of Scripture.", Whether GOD agrees or not ???

AV Mt 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
AV Mk 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
AV Jn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

We all start as sinners, we makes choices along life's path til the end of our life. GOD alone is Judge of our choices, whether we are included to "eternal life" or "eternal damnation".

---

I did not see any questions to answer in your posts, but feel free to ask as your heart desires. I will try my best to address your concerns, each item at a time.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Formersda]

Prologue:
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Is it your assumption that, Jesus gave Paul the authority to assemble Gentiles on first/sun day of each week ???

Your opinions in these statements are obvious to me. The Climax of This Drama is GOD's Authority in Sabbath versus man's authority in the first/sun day. Martyrs and murderers will be distinguished in the mark of the beast, versus the Seal of GOD.

"because Paul refutes all that is SDA doctrine", I was saving this for @Buzzard, but I have this opportunity with you, about Paul.

AV Ac 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

AV Ac 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

When all the Jews are gone, Why did Paul agree to "the next sabbath", when "the next first day(on the morrow) was given to the Gentiles" ???

AV Ac 13:44-47 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Were there not pagan first day temples to preach in ???

Why not make a "uproar/condemn" over the first day given to the Gentiles in Paul's actions, by the Jews ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

Again you make it about the Sabbath, no one has said anything about that. You stated that Paul’s writing are not to elevated to that of scripture your words Michael.

Paul‘s words are contrary to SDA teachings on sabbath and food. I would suggest this is because you don’t know the difference between the mosaic covenant and the new covenant. And you still have not been able to state where in the Bible Gentiles are under the mosaic covenant. When God gave the covenant it was to Israel only, where from scriptures does it apply to Gentiles?

When Jesus talks about a New Covenant what does that mean?

 

[pythons]

"Believe it or not this is more power than is asserted for the Pope.", It's your opinion to say so.

This post has many issues stated with their own pros and cons.

"Therefore, in closing certainly a distinctive doctrine of SDA's is that Ellen White's testimonies URSURP any persons interpretation of Scripture.", Whether GOD agrees or not ???

AV Mt 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
AV Mk 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
AV Jn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

We all start as sinners, we makes choices along life's path til the end of our life. GOD alone is Judge of our choices, whether we are included to "eternal life" or "eternal damnation".

---

I did not see any questions to answer in your posts, but feel free to ask as your heart desires. I will try my best to address your concerns, each item at a time.

Yours in Christ, Michael

Question:
Given that Sacred Scripture forbids the setting of dates for Christ's 2nd Coming....
...And the specific date of Christ's 2nd Coming was ALL there was to Miller's message.
...What Biblical support could a Christian leverage to support Miller's message circa 1843 / 44?

Question:
Ellen White rebuked the Christians who appealed to Sacred Scripture in rejecting Miller's message...
...Ellen White stated that those who appealed to Sacred Scripture were "IN UNION WITH SATAN".
....Ellen White stated that those who rejected Miller's message were rejecting God's SDA sustained
...How would a Bible only Christian know they were rejecting God by following Scripture?

Question:
Ellen White explicitly said that even if Scripture went against one of the SDA Pillars...
...That Seventh-day Adventists were to REJECT SCRIPTURE if it moved a Pillar.
...A Pillar which Ellen White claimed God had authorized (Like Miller's 1844 message).
...How does the mechanics of this work in a Biblical environment?

Below is what I previously posted so you can easily have the context.

The Millerite message was a SHILL.

A person alive at that time could only judge the message BY THE ACTUAL MESSAGE (not what it should have been)...
...The message was "Jesus was gonna come back on X,Y, Z date - so repent and be ready.
...The message was FALSE, Jesus didn't come back.

Below is documentation as to what "Christians" said about "THE MESSAGE".

"I have frequently been asked if I believe Mr. Miller to be sincere. I have invariably answered in the affirmative. I cannot but suppose that Mr. M. is a pious, well-meaning man. I would advise him, in conclusion, if he would escape the distress I know it would cause him in his old age to have been unintentionally instrumental in the spread of infidelity, to go home and preach Christ crucified to perishing sinners, which I have no doubt he is qualified to do, and to waste no more of a life which might be valuable if rightly spent, in vainly attempting to make known those times and seasons which God hath wisely concealed from the ken of mortals, and "put into His own power." Pastor Dowling An Exposition of the Prophecies, Supposed by William Miller to Predict the Second Coming of Christ, in 1843 (baptiststudiesonline.com)

&

"Whether he has been first himself deceived, or whether he is wittingly practising a pious fraud, is known to the Searcher of hearts. I have but to point out sundry errors and weak places in his book; sufficient, however to destroy his credibility, but not to prove that the end of the word is distant; for "of that day knoweth no man"; and we are told that it is even hidden from the angels. If a man were to prophesy that, on a certain day during the next year, Washington city would be destroyed by an earthquake, who could positively declare the contrary? I pretend not to know that the world will survive the year 1843; but I think that Mr. William Miller knows as little about it as I do.

The Almighty has wisely hidden that day from us. Let the man who would rashly essay to raise the veil, ponder well upon the responsibility he assumes.

If Miller's calculations are correct, it is very evident that he is wiser than the angels, the prophets, the apostles, and the saints. It was an angel who was commanded to make Daniel understand the vision. Now, if that angel showed the prophet that the world would be destroyed in 2300 years, then is it not true, as Christ declared, that "of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." We are also informed that, "In such an hour as you think not, the Son of man cometh;" which will not be the case with the Millerites, if his prediction shall be fulfilled."

The above reaction where these Baptists rejected Miller's message BASED ON WHAT SCRIPTURE SAID TO DO infuriated Ellen & the other anti-Trinitarian SDA Pioneers. Below is Ellen White's "testimonies" against people who rejected Miller's Message that Jesus was returning on a specific date.

"The saints anxiously waited for their Lord with fasting, watching, and almost constant prayer. Even some sinners looked forward to the time with terror; but the great mass manifested the spirit of Satan in their opposition to the message. They mocked and scoffed, repeating everywhere, "No man knoweth the day nor the hour." Evil angels urged them on to harden their hearts and to reject every ray of light from heaven, that they might be fastened in the snare of Satan. Many who professed to be looking for Christ had no part in the work of the message."

"Satan and his angels triumphed over them, and those who would not receive the message congratulated themselves upon their farseeing judgment and wisdom in not receiving the delusion, as they called it. They did not realize that they were rejecting the counsel of God against themselves, and were working in union with Satan and his angels to perplex God's people, who were living out the heaven-sent message."

"The preaching of definite time called forth great opposition from all classes, from the minister in the pulpit down to the most reckless, heaven-daring sinner. "No man knoweth the day nor the hour," was heard from the hypocritical minister and the bold scoffer."


This demonstrates that IF Ellen White was really under the direction of God (as she claimed to be)...
...God REBUKED people for TESTING Miller's (& Ellen's) message BY THE SCRIPTURES.
...God also identified people who applied Scripture as "manifesting the spirit of SATAN".
...God also stated that rejecting this contrary to the Bible message proved you were:

"IN UNION WITH SATAN".

This incredible rubric deployed by Ellen White was used repeatedly to stomp down opposition to her "heavenly messages"

Ellen White
We are NOT to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. . . . And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, IF such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God”

The message is extremely CLEAR HERE - SCRIPTURE DOESN'T CONDEMN ANYTHING Ellen White says EVEN IF IT SEEMS TO -because- after all the Bible writers were God's penmen NOT HIS PEN. Ellen White was actually THE PEN OF INSPIRATION (like a sock puppet).

Sock Puppet
The Bible is written by inspired men, but IT is NOT God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, NOT His pen."

Sock Puppet
There are those who say, ‘Someone MANIPULATES her writings.’ I acknowledge the charge. It is One who is mighty in counsel, One who presents before me the condition of things”

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue: GOD has used erring people before.

Question:
Given that Sacred Scripture forbids the setting of dates for Christ's 2nd Coming....
...And the specific date of Christ's 2nd Coming was ALL there was to Miller's message.
...What Biblical support could a Christian leverage to support Miller's message circa 1843 / 44?

Some of Miller's conclusions were based on carry over doctrinal errors from the Mother Harlot. Not all of it, was error though.

Your error here, you find one point not in harmony with scriptures, you conclude to evaluate it all error.

AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

I will add, that is your privilege and mine of the free will opinion before GOD. Which GOD will evaluate in our heart.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Question:
Ellen White rebuked the Christians who appealed to Sacred Scripture in rejecting Miller's message...
...Ellen White stated that those who appealed to Sacred Scripture were "IN UNION WITH SATAN".
....Ellen White stated that those who rejected Miller's message were rejecting God's SDA sustained
...How would a Bible only Christian know they were rejecting God by following Scripture?

AV Mt 13:47-50 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Similar answer as before. The Gospel is about the careful exercise of judgement in sorting.

You do realize, the Jews rejected Jesus, and all that goes with Jesus.

The great issue in the time of the end, is recognizing Jesus in the sheep.

---

AV Mt 25:4-5 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
AV Hb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

"How would a Bible only Christian know they were rejecting God by following Scripture?", By the discernment of the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Question:
Ellen White explicitly said that even if Scripture went against one of the SDA Pillars...
...That Seventh-day Adventists were to REJECT SCRIPTURE if it moved a Pillar.
...A Pillar which Ellen White claimed God had authorized (Like Miller's 1844 message).
...How does the mechanics of this work in a Biblical environment?
...
Ellen White
We are NOT to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. . . . And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, IF such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God”

Regardless of your editing EGW quote, You are safe on this one for now, It is ONLY for SDAs as "We are NOT".

This quote is to prep SDAs for future misuse of scriptures to SDAs, by others.

Yours in Christ, Michael