That is a future event and please note who is giving that gospel, another angel, is the SDA church an angel?
Did Paul write the letters to the Thessalonians before or after the book of Revelation was written?
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Unique Doctrines to Adventist Church ONLY ???
- Thread starter SDAchristian
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Did Paul write the letters to the Thessalonians before or after the book of Revelation was written?
Well Micheal you accuse others of not using good sources but you yourself cannot use official sources to your argument as there are none. Show us the evidence Micheal from official church sources, your an SDA trying to convince others here on this forum your beliefs why not show official sources?AV Ro 7:7-12 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me]. 12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
No. You satisfied now ??? It killed him, are we clear now on what kills ??? What purpose did the Decalogue serve in Paul's life, as a Christian then ???
AV Re 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
That is a still ongoing discussion, and so far you have not engaged the topic properly.
AV 1Pt 4:17-19 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls [to him] in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
The "judgment" component of "the everlasting gospel" is what then ???
You were in the SDA church long enough, and you studied your way out.
I do not need to, according my opinion of what you think you know.
Yours in Christ, Michael
If your going to point out that the SDA church believes that the Sunday law is imminent then show us the evidence.
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
When we first started our discussion, I knew, you knew enough to challenge me. I can not change your choices for you, ask the Holy Spirit for help.
That's the point, find your own oil yourself, per Jesus' warning.
AV Re 18:3-5 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
As far as I understand, you will have another opportunity at the out pouring of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain. I can see your definition of sin, being a problem at that time.
It is not my job, to inform you why the Holy Spirit choose to omit this truth from your faith. When you see and hear the fulfillment, you will have concrete evidence to hang your faith on. But there is still the war with self to consider.
You are following the path you chose for yourself. I have given the warning, the rest is up to you.
Yours in Christ, Michael
When we first started our discussion, I knew, you knew enough to challenge me. I can not change your choices for you, ask the Holy Spirit for help.
AV Mt 25:1-5 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish. 3 They that [were] foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.Well Micheal you accuse others of not using good sources but you yourself cannot use official sources to your argument as there are none. Show us the evidence Micheal from official church sources, your an SDA trying to convince others here on this forum your beliefs why not show official sources?
That's the point, find your own oil yourself, per Jesus' warning.
AV Re 18:3-5 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
As far as I understand, you will have another opportunity at the out pouring of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain. I can see your definition of sin, being a problem at that time.
AV Jn 16:7-12 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.If your going to point out that the SDA church believes that the Sunday law is imminent then show us the evidence.
It is not my job, to inform you why the Holy Spirit choose to omit this truth from your faith. When you see and hear the fulfillment, you will have concrete evidence to hang your faith on. But there is still the war with self to consider.
You are following the path you chose for yourself. I have given the warning, the rest is up to you.
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Well-known member
It's GOD's Angel/Messenger, your choice to accept it or reject it, in the concept of your own opinion.That is a future event and please note who is giving that gospel, another angel, is the SDA church an angel?
I do not understand the usefulness of your question, when both were guided by GOD. Maybe cite an example from your point of view then ???Did Paul write the letters to the Thessalonians before or after the book of Revelation was written?
Yours in Christ, Michael
The point I am making is the gospel which I have already told you was written by Paul way before the book of Revelation, thus the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 not the one of the three angels messages as pointed out in Revelation. Therefore by not obeying the gospel of our Lord Jesus which is the gospel I have shown you you are being disobedient to God. Therefore Micheal do you want a discussion on sinning being breaking the law still? Is sinning only breaking the Decalogue? Or are there other sins?It's GOD's Angel/Messenger, your choice to accept it or reject it, in the concept of your own opinion.
I do not understand the usefulness of your question, when both were guided by GOD. Maybe cite an example from your point of view then ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
Where in the bible does it say the SDA church is God’s messenger?
And still no evidence to back up your theory of an imminent Sunday law from official sources, this must mean no evidence Micheal.
You also haven’t answered my other questions, how was Paul saved as he was a doer of the law, was it by the law or Jesus? Does Jesus rest on the Sabbath? Yes or no?
If we all heed your warning and start keeping the sabbath will we be saved then?
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SDAchristian
Well-known member
AV 1Jn 3:7-10 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.If we all heed your warning and start keeping the sabbath will we be saved then?
I know you missed the point again, about the Sabbath.
"even as he is righteous", In your understanding, who is "he" here ???
You missed the context of the sin of breaking sabbath with GOD, which results in what ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Who truly has the authority to define the Gospel of GOD ??? The "the gospel of peace" is peace with who or what ???
Think carefully about your answer Please: Was this the Gospel to this woman from Jesus Himself ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Who truly has the authority to define the Gospel of GOD ??? The "the gospel of peace" is peace with who or what ???
AV Jn 8:10-11 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.The point I am making is the gospel which I have already told you was written by Paul way before the book of Revelation, thus the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 not the one of the three angels messages as pointed out in Revelation.
Think carefully about your answer Please: Was this the Gospel to this woman from Jesus Himself ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
So I am righteous if I keep the Sabbath? Jesus is the He. So I only have to keep the sabbath and I am righteous?AV 1Jn 3:7-10 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
I know you missed the point again, about the Sabbath.
"even as he is righteous", In your understanding, who is "he" here ???
You missed the context of the sin of breaking sabbath with GOD, which results in what ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
Well your definition of the context of breaking the sabbath is death?
Does Jesus rest on the sabbath? Did the Law save Paul or was it Jesus?
Prologue:
AV Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Who truly has the authority to define the Gospel of GOD ??? The "the gospel of peace" is peace with who or what ???
AV Jn 8:10-11 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Think carefully about your answer Please: Was this the Gospel to this woman from Jesus Himself ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
Micheal, the gospel was only after the death, burial and resurrection, there was no salvation through the Law. There is salvation only in Christ Jesus.
Jesus forgave her sins as He is God and only God has that attribute.
Only God has the authority to define the gospel, which He has done by through His word. The gospel of peace is with God and God alone. Are you stating that God gave His authority to the SDA church? That ecclesiastical authority is with the SDA church?
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
AV Lk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
AV Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
"sealed with that holy Spirit of promise", The Holy Spirit is still in "the gospel of your salvation" GOD's business.
AV Ac 6:8 . And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
AV Ac 7:51-52 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
You had no clue that this piece of gospel evidence was coming. Which demonstrates your lack of complete understanding of the gospel from your statement of "the gospel was only after the death, burial and resurrection".
The Gospel came after sin, get it now ??? No sin, no gospel needed.
So what gospel question are you going to ask, without knowing, what the rest of scriptures say about the gospel ???
You can redeem your opinion, by showing scripture that supports your point of view.
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
AV Lk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
AV Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
"sealed with that holy Spirit of promise", The Holy Spirit is still in "the gospel of your salvation" GOD's business.
AV Ac 6:8 . And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
AV Ac 7:51-52 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
AV Hb 4:1-2 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].Micheal, the gospel was only after the death, burial and resurrection, there was no salvation through the Law. There is salvation only in Christ Jesus.
You had no clue that this piece of gospel evidence was coming. Which demonstrates your lack of complete understanding of the gospel from your statement of "the gospel was only after the death, burial and resurrection".
The Gospel came after sin, get it now ??? No sin, no gospel needed.
So what gospel question are you going to ask, without knowing, what the rest of scriptures say about the gospel ???
You can redeem your opinion, by showing scripture that supports your point of view.
Yours in Christ, Michael
Micheal as you can’t seem to answer does Jesus rest on the sabbath.
Can you please explain John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I myself am working.”
What works does both the Father and Jesus do which also includes working on the sabbath as Jesus states here, as they were asking Jesus why he had healed on the Sabbath.
Can you please explain John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I myself am working.”
What works does both the Father and Jesus do which also includes working on the sabbath as Jesus states here, as they were asking Jesus why he had healed on the Sabbath.
I was referring to the gospel which is Christ’s death, burial and resurrection.AV Hb 4:1-2 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
You had no clue that this piece of gospel evidence was coming. Which demonstrates your lack of complete understanding of the gospel from your statement of "the gospel was only after the death, burial and resurrection".
You have just pulled out 2 verses way out of context, in fact that whole chapter and the previous chapter is about Jesus being the sabbath rest. Hebrews 2:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who where disobedient. The writer of Hebrews is referring to the Israelites who had doubted that they could conquer Canaan. They kept the Sabbath each week but they still did not enter into His rest.
Verse 4 of chapter 3 of Hebrews, For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day. “AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM HIS WORKS.” what works did God rest from Michael?
Verse 6 and again in this passage, “THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST”. Why didn’t the Israelites enter His rest? Hint it wasn’t because they broke the Sabbath.
What was the good news or gospel then Micheal? Was it the sabbath? Was it that Jesus would redeem them? Was the gospel or good news the Law Micheal? Those verse still don’t define the gospel, what is the gospel that is being referred to here?
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SDAchristian
Well-known member
If you keep in love to GOD, then you are not sinning against GOD. But we all have sinned in sabbath righteousness, that is why we need Jesus' alien righteousness for all our past sins, sabbath and others.So I am righteous if I keep the Sabbath?
We agree !!!Jesus is the He.
AV 2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:So I only have to keep the sabbath and I am righteous?
No !!! We keep it, in the Holy Spirit's power of sanctification.
AV Num 15:32-36 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.Well your definition of the context of breaking the sabbath is death?
GOD ordered the death of this person. GOD's decision, not mine. So you must have evidence that GOD changed Their Mind about the death sentence ???
AV Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.Does Jesus rest on the sabbath?
Ask the Holy Spirit, Please !!! You will not believe or understand me.
AV Jn 8:43-47 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
Part of what you need to know is in here.
I gave the answer to this one, on what law did to Paul, through lust. But I understand you do not completely understand the role/purpose of the Law or which law, as GOD intended it to be.Did the Law save Paul or was it Jesus?
Yours in Christ, Michael
So the Law did not save him because Jesus chose him to save him.If you keep in love to GOD, then you are not sinning against GOD. But we all have sinned in sabbath righteousness, that is why we need Jesus' alien righteousness for all our past sins, sabbath and others.
We agree !!!
AV 2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
No !!! We keep it, in the Holy Spirit's power of sanctification.
AV Num 15:32-36 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
GOD ordered the death of this person. GOD's decision, not mine. So you must have evidence that GOD changed Their Mind about the death sentence ???
AV Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Ask the Holy Spirit, Please !!! You will not believe or understand me.
AV Jn 8:43-47 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
Part of what you need to know is in here.
I gave the answer to this one, on what law did to Paul, through lust. But I understand you do not completely understand the role/purpose of the Law or which law, as GOD intended it to be.
Yours in Christ, Michael
Would it be fair to say then Jesus doesn’t rest because He is Spirit as well as a human. God is spirit, Col 1:15. So I’m not saying Jesus broke the law what I want to know is if He is spirit too and God is spirit does that spirit die?
How do I see Jesus on the sabbath? How do I know who Jesus is?
Micheal, apart from answering questions about the sabbath, you knowledge is limited. Your not able to or unwilling to answer any questions on who Jesus is or anything else.
You resort to “ask the Holy Spirit”. That’s a cop out. That’s typical of an SDA when you further ask questions which you have not been told the answer by your church.
Do you worship Jesus on any other day of the week besides Saturday or is it limited to sabbath only?
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SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
AV Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
AV Hb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
As long as, you do not understand what Paul is saying, you can not understand GOD's point of view.
Perspective: Do you believe fixing what sin broke is work anyone else can do, besides GOD ???
Another perspective Question:
AV Hb 9:3-5 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
When Jesus sits on the mercyseat in heaven, Jesus sits over the Decalogue inside, do you understand why ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
AV Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
AV Hb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
As long as, you do not understand what Paul is saying, you can not understand GOD's point of view.
Who's point of reference or authority are you going use here ???Micheal as you can’t seem to answer does Jesus rest on the sabbath.
Jesus said this, do you understand what was said, by the GODhead ???Can you please explain John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I myself am working.”
AV Mt 12:5-8 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is [one] greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.What works does both the Father and Jesus do which also includes working on the sabbath as Jesus states here, as they were asking Jesus why he had healed on the Sabbath.
Perspective: Do you believe fixing what sin broke is work anyone else can do, besides GOD ???
Another perspective Question:
AV Hb 9:3-5 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
When Jesus sits on the mercyseat in heaven, Jesus sits over the Decalogue inside, do you understand why ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
SDAchristian
Well-known member
AV Jn 5:45-47 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?I was referring to the gospel which is Christ’s death, burial and resurrection.
So you want to call Jesus a liar then ???
AV Ro 6:1-15 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
So you want to call Paul a liar about the symbolism of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the impact it should have on sin in the "old man" of our lives ???
AV Ro 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
AV 1C 5:7-8 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.
AV 1C 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
AV Eph 1:13-15 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
So you want to call Paul a liar in these verses too ???
AV Hb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
So you want to call GOD a liar, in showing Moses the heavenly sanctuary, where Jesus is working the Real NT Gospel for us ???
AV Hb 11:24-28 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. 28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
It takes faith to believe and understand the the Gospel of our salvation.
AV Isa 43:10-12 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour. 12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when [there was] no strange [god] among you: therefore ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I [am] God.
Are you sure, that GOD will call you as a witness for GOD ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
Ah yes you don’t understand what Paul is saying cop out Micheal.Prologue:
AV Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
AV Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
AV Hb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
As long as, you do not understand what Paul is saying, you can not understand GOD's point of view.
Who's point of reference or authority are you going use here ???
Jesus said this, do you understand what was said, by the GODhead ???
AV Mt 12:5-8 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is [one] greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Perspective: Do you believe fixing what sin broke is work anyone else can do, besides GOD ???
Another perspective Question:
AV Hb 9:3-5 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
When Jesus sits on the mercyseat in heaven, Jesus sits over the Decalogue inside, do you understand why ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
Do you understand that Jesus disarmed Satan at the cross? Can you show me any verse in the bible where there is judgement for the righteous and that they will lose their salvation?
It you Micheal who doesn’t understand Hebrews and the mercy seat, where is the mercy seat? And when the ark of the covenant was in the holy of holies n the earthly tabernacle who hovered over the mercy seat?
John 12:31,32 Jesus’s own words Micheal
”Now judgement is upon this world, now the ruler of this world will be cast out, and if. I am lifted up from the earth will draw all men to myself. Who is the ruler of this world Micheal? Could it be Satan?
Rev 5:5 One of the elders said to me stop weeping, behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the root of David has overcome so as to open thee book and to break open the seven seals. Who is this Micheal who has overcome?
As Jesus is God is He omnipresent?
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But we all have sinned in sabbath righteousness,
Did any one else catch that "works righteousness " and "salvation via Sabbath observance" message from Michael?
Like it or not, Michael is surely in a cult. All he can do is huff and puff, spewing condemnation to those for whom there is no condemnation
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh,
And still no official word from the SDA church on the imminent Sunday Law! Michael spouts non official sources, strangely silent from GC.Did any one else catch that "works righteousness " and "salvation via Sabbath observance" message from Michael?
Like it or not, Michael is surely in a cult. All he can do is huff and puff, spewing condemnation to those for whom there is no condemnation
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh,
My father died in 1988 as an SDA pastor, he was convinced that the Sunday law was imminent too and at that time we had the Sunday trading law which meant Sunday was a day of rest. Still didn’t stop us going to church on Saturday, or stop us working either. I am still waiting the Sunday law.
Michael you have added works to salvation and excluded Jesus from your salvation and you are trying to lead others to this false gospel.
SDAchristian
Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Pr 6:16-19 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
AV Re 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
I know what GOD hates, and calls a sin.
EDIT-VIOLATION rule 12- do not attempt to correct the behavior of board posters.
I see no link back to my words, as evidence of my words you quoted in your post.
Yours in Christ, Michael
AV Pr 6:16-19 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
AV Re 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
I know what GOD hates, and calls a sin.
EDIT-VIOLATION rule 12- do not attempt to correct the behavior of board posters.
This my original post in it's entirety. That you referenced. I seem to NOT find the quoted words you used in your post, by using my browser's search function.SDAchristian said:
If you keep in love to GOD, then you are not sinning against GOD. But we all have sinned in sabbath righteousness, that is why we need Jesus' alien righteousness for all our past sins, sabbath and others.
We agree !!!
AV 2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
No !!! We keep it, in the Holy Spirit's power of sanctification.
AV Num 15:32-36 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
GOD ordered the death of this person. GOD's decision, not mine. So you must have evidence that GOD changed Their Mind about the death sentence ???
AV Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Ask the Holy Spirit, Please !!! You will not believe or understand me.
AV Jn 8:43-47 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
Part of what you need to know is in here.
I gave the answer to this one, on what law did to Paul, through lust. But I understand you do not completely understand the role/purpose of the Law or which law, as GOD intended it to be.
Yours in Christ, Michael
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Please use a Cut-N-Paste source of my words, that you are apparently quoting, for proper documenting the context of how I used those words.John t said:
Did any one else catch that "works righteousness " and "salvation via Sabbath observance" message from Michael?
I see no link back to my words, as evidence of my words you quoted in your post.
Yours in Christ, Michael
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