Unitarians and the 2nd Coming of Christ

civic

Active member
Titus 2:13 in the Greek it’s the EXACT same construction in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11. So either Jesus is Lord and Savior/ God and Savior or He is neither one so that’s your actual choice . That’s what the plain reading of the text is period. Unitarians read their BIAS into 2 Peter1:1 because it goes against their beliefs . That’s what is really going on here and its eisegesis(reading their views into scripture) rather than exegesis.( reading the text apart from doctrine).

Peter refers to Christ as our God and Saviour- Lord and Saviour just the same as Paul in Titus 2:13 and it’s the same Greek construction in Titus 2:13 as it is in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11.

2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

It’s time for you to wake up to that fact. It’s impossible for you to read it any other way because of your doctrine.

And the One who is coming / appearing in the NT is always the Son and NEVER the Father.

This is a trinitarian slam dunk !

epiphanea

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Tim 6:14
14
that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Tim 1:10
10
but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,

2 Tim 4:1
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Tim 4:8
8
in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Titus 2:13
13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,



Parousia

Matt 24:3

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matt 24:27
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Cor 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thess 2:19

19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thess 3:13

13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thess 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 2:1

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

James 5:7

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

James 5:8

8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4
4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 John 2:28-29
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

And 2 Thes 2:8 links both His appearing / coming as the same event of Christ not the Father. Both epiphenea and parousia together below in the same verse.

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Peter 1:7
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Case closed for the Unitarian camp !

This is where Unitarians really fail badly because they are so consumed with disproving the Deity of Christ that they fail with a well rounded theology which would benefit them greatly . You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father for He is never once in Scripture referred to as the One who is Coming/ Appearing . it is our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is Coming/Appearing in the clouds that every eye will see. Rev 1:7.

hope this helps !!!
 
This is where Unitarians really fail badly because they are so consumed with disproving the Deity of Christ that they fail with a well rounded theology which would benefit them greatly . You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father for He is never once in Scripture referred to as the One who is Coming/ Appearing . it is our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is Coming/Appearing in the clouds that every eye will see. Rev 1:7.


So according to your Trinitarian view, "God" in Titus 2:13 is NOT referring to "the LORD" in Isaiah 43:11. Correct?

Since I think you would say "God" in Titus 2:13 does NOT include the Father but "the LORD" in Isaiah 43:11 DOES.

Titus 2:13... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Isaiah 43:11... I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Whereas I believe "God" in Titus 2:13 IS referring to "the LORD" in Isaiah 43:11.

Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 

civic

Active member
You really need to learn to stay on topic for once instead of your constant tangents. I will only engage you when you engage the texts in my OP.
 
You really need to learn to stay on topic for once instead of your constant tangents. I will only engage you when you engage the texts in my OP.

This IS part of the text of your OP!!!

"You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father."

To give you a chance to clarify that statement in your OP, I asked...

So according to your Trinitarian view, "God" in Titus 2:13 is NOT referring to "the LORD" in Isaiah 43:11. Correct?

Titus 2:13... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Isaiah 43:11... I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Are you able to answer the question about something you said in your OP, or not!
 
Titus 2:13 in the Greek it’s the EXACT same construction in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11. So either Jesus is Lord and Savior/ God and Savior or He is neither one so that’s your actual choice . That’s what the plain reading of the text is period. Unitarians read their BIAS into 2 Peter1:1 because it goes against their beliefs . That’s what is really going on here and its eisegesis(reading their views into scripture) rather than exegesis.( reading the text apart from doctrine).

Peter refers to Christ as our God and Saviour- Lord and Saviour just the same as Paul in Titus 2:13 and it’s the same Greek construction in Titus 2:13 as it is in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11.

2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

It’s time for you to wake up to that fact. It’s impossible for you to read it any other way because of your doctrine.
Is it really:

2 Thessalonians 1:12: του θεου ημων και κυριου ιησου χριστου (our God and the Lord Jesus Christ)
1 Peter 1:1: του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου
1 Peter 1:11: του κυριου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου
And the One who is coming / appearing in the NT is always the Son and NEVER the Father.

This is a trinitarian slam dunk !

epiphanea

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Tim 6:14
14
that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Tim 1:10
10
but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,

2 Tim 4:1
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Tim 4:8
8
in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Titus 2:13
13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,



Parousia

Matt 24:3

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matt 24:27
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Cor 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thess 2:19

19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thess 3:13

13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thess 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 2:1

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

James 5:7

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

James 5:8

8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4
4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 John 2:28-29
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

And 2 Thes 2:8 links both His appearing / coming as the same event of Christ not the Father. Both epiphenea and parousia together below in the same verse.

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Peter 1:7
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Case closed for the Unitarian camp !

This is where Unitarians really fail badly because they are so consumed with disproving the Deity of Christ that they fail with a well rounded theology which would benefit them greatly . You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father for He is never once in Scripture referred to as the One who is Coming/ Appearing . it is our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is Coming/Appearing in the clouds that every eye will see. Rev 1:7.

hope this helps !!!
You do realize that Titus 2:13 speaks of "the appearing of the glory of the great God and...", correct?

(BTW, did you forget about 'the One coming'/ο ερχομενος at Revelation 1:4?)
 
Titus 2:13 in the Greek it’s the EXACT same construction in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11. So either Jesus is Lord and Savior/ God and Savior or He is neither one so that’s your actual choice . That’s what the plain reading of the text is period. Unitarians read their BIAS into 2 Peter1:1 because it goes against their beliefs . That’s what is really going on here and its eisegesis(reading their views into scripture) rather than exegesis.( reading the text apart from doctrine).

Peter refers to Christ as our God and Saviour- Lord and Saviour just the same as Paul in Titus 2:13 and it’s the same Greek construction in Titus 2:13 as it is in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11.

2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

It’s time for you to wake up to that fact. It’s impossible for you to read it any other way because of your doctrine.

And the One who is coming / appearing in the NT is always the Son and NEVER the Father.

This is a trinitarian slam dunk !

epiphanea

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Tim 6:14
14
that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Tim 1:10
10
but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,

2 Tim 4:1
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Tim 4:8
8
in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Titus 2:13
13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,



Parousia

Matt 24:3

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matt 24:27
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Cor 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thess 2:19

19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thess 3:13

13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thess 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 2:1

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

James 5:7

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

James 5:8

8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4
4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 John 2:28-29
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

And 2 Thes 2:8 links both His appearing / coming as the same event of Christ not the Father. Both epiphenea and parousia together below in the same verse.

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Peter 1:7
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Case closed for the Unitarian camp !

This is where Unitarians really fail badly because they are so consumed with disproving the Deity of Christ that they fail with a well rounded theology which would benefit them greatly . You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father for He is never once in Scripture referred to as the One who is Coming/ Appearing . it is our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is Coming/Appearing in the clouds that every eye will see. Rev 1:7.

hope this helps !!!

So what should we do with these facts?........

......eagerly awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us Jesus Christ Titus 2:13

For the son of man is going to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and will then repay every person according to his deeds.

.....until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who in his own time will show He who is the Blessed and only Power, the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal might. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:14-16
 
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