Unitarians and the 2nd Coming of Christ

civic

Well-known member
Titus 2:13 in the Greek it’s the EXACT same construction in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11. So either Jesus is Lord and Savior/ God and Savior or He is neither one so that’s your actual choice . That’s what the plain reading of the text is period. Unitarians read their BIAS into 2 Peter1:1 because it goes against their beliefs . That’s what is really going on here and its eisegesis(reading their views into scripture) rather than exegesis.( reading the text apart from doctrine).

Peter refers to Christ as our God and Saviour- Lord and Saviour just the same as Paul in Titus 2:13 and it’s the same Greek construction in Titus 2:13 as it is in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11.

2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

It’s time for you to wake up to that fact. It’s impossible for you to read it any other way because of your doctrine.

And the One who is coming / appearing in the NT is always the Son and NEVER the Father.

This is a trinitarian slam dunk !

epiphanea

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Tim 6:14
14
that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Tim 1:10
10
but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,

2 Tim 4:1
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Tim 4:8
8
in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Titus 2:13
13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,



Parousia

Matt 24:3

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matt 24:27
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Cor 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thess 2:19

19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thess 3:13

13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thess 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 2:1

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

James 5:7

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

James 5:8

8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4
4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 John 2:28-29
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

And 2 Thes 2:8 links both His appearing / coming as the same event of Christ not the Father. Both epiphenea and parousia together below in the same verse.

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Peter 1:7
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Case closed for the Unitarian camp !

This is where Unitarians really fail badly because they are so consumed with disproving the Deity of Christ that they fail with a well rounded theology which would benefit them greatly . You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father for He is never once in Scripture referred to as the One who is Coming/ Appearing . it is our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is Coming/Appearing in the clouds that every eye will see. Rev 1:7.

hope this helps !!!
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
This is where Unitarians really fail badly because they are so consumed with disproving the Deity of Christ that they fail with a well rounded theology which would benefit them greatly . You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father for He is never once in Scripture referred to as the One who is Coming/ Appearing . it is our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is Coming/Appearing in the clouds that every eye will see. Rev 1:7.


So according to your Trinitarian view, "God" in Titus 2:13 is NOT referring to "the LORD" in Isaiah 43:11. Correct?

Since I think you would say "God" in Titus 2:13 does NOT include the Father but "the LORD" in Isaiah 43:11 DOES.

Titus 2:13... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Isaiah 43:11... I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Whereas I believe "God" in Titus 2:13 IS referring to "the LORD" in Isaiah 43:11.

Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 

civic

Well-known member
You really need to learn to stay on topic for once instead of your constant tangents. I will only engage you when you engage the texts in my OP.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
You really need to learn to stay on topic for once instead of your constant tangents. I will only engage you when you engage the texts in my OP.

This IS part of the text of your OP!!!

"You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father."

To give you a chance to clarify that statement in your OP, I asked...

So according to your Trinitarian view, "God" in Titus 2:13 is NOT referring to "the LORD" in Isaiah 43:11. Correct?

Titus 2:13... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Isaiah 43:11... I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Are you able to answer the question about something you said in your OP, or not!
 
Titus 2:13 in the Greek it’s the EXACT same construction in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11. So either Jesus is Lord and Savior/ God and Savior or He is neither one so that’s your actual choice . That’s what the plain reading of the text is period. Unitarians read their BIAS into 2 Peter1:1 because it goes against their beliefs . That’s what is really going on here and its eisegesis(reading their views into scripture) rather than exegesis.( reading the text apart from doctrine).

Peter refers to Christ as our God and Saviour- Lord and Saviour just the same as Paul in Titus 2:13 and it’s the same Greek construction in Titus 2:13 as it is in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11.

2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

It’s time for you to wake up to that fact. It’s impossible for you to read it any other way because of your doctrine.
Is it really:

2 Thessalonians 1:12: του θεου ημων και κυριου ιησου χριστου (our God and the Lord Jesus Christ)
1 Peter 1:1: του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου
1 Peter 1:11: του κυριου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου
And the One who is coming / appearing in the NT is always the Son and NEVER the Father.

This is a trinitarian slam dunk !

epiphanea

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Tim 6:14
14
that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Tim 1:10
10
but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,

2 Tim 4:1
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Tim 4:8
8
in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Titus 2:13
13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,



Parousia

Matt 24:3

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matt 24:27
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Cor 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thess 2:19

19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thess 3:13

13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thess 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 2:1

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

James 5:7

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

James 5:8

8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4
4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 John 2:28-29
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

And 2 Thes 2:8 links both His appearing / coming as the same event of Christ not the Father. Both epiphenea and parousia together below in the same verse.

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Peter 1:7
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Case closed for the Unitarian camp !

This is where Unitarians really fail badly because they are so consumed with disproving the Deity of Christ that they fail with a well rounded theology which would benefit them greatly . You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father for He is never once in Scripture referred to as the One who is Coming/ Appearing . it is our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is Coming/Appearing in the clouds that every eye will see. Rev 1:7.

hope this helps !!!
You do realize that Titus 2:13 speaks of "the appearing of the glory of the great God and...", correct?

(BTW, did you forget about 'the One coming'/ο ερχομενος at Revelation 1:4?)
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Titus 2:13 in the Greek it’s the EXACT same construction in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11. So either Jesus is Lord and Savior/ God and Savior or He is neither one so that’s your actual choice . That’s what the plain reading of the text is period. Unitarians read their BIAS into 2 Peter1:1 because it goes against their beliefs . That’s what is really going on here and its eisegesis(reading their views into scripture) rather than exegesis.( reading the text apart from doctrine).

Peter refers to Christ as our God and Saviour- Lord and Saviour just the same as Paul in Titus 2:13 and it’s the same Greek construction in Titus 2:13 as it is in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11.

2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

It’s time for you to wake up to that fact. It’s impossible for you to read it any other way because of your doctrine.

And the One who is coming / appearing in the NT is always the Son and NEVER the Father.

This is a trinitarian slam dunk !

epiphanea

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Tim 6:14
14
that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Tim 1:10
10
but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,

2 Tim 4:1
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Tim 4:8
8
in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Titus 2:13
13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,



Parousia

Matt 24:3

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matt 24:27
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Cor 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thess 2:19

19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thess 3:13

13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thess 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 2:1

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

James 5:7

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

James 5:8

8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4
4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 John 2:28-29
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

And 2 Thes 2:8 links both His appearing / coming as the same event of Christ not the Father. Both epiphenea and parousia together below in the same verse.

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Peter 1:7
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Case closed for the Unitarian camp !

This is where Unitarians really fail badly because they are so consumed with disproving the Deity of Christ that they fail with a well rounded theology which would benefit them greatly . You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father for He is never once in Scripture referred to as the One who is Coming/ Appearing . it is our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is Coming/Appearing in the clouds that every eye will see. Rev 1:7.

hope this helps !!!

So what should we do with these facts?........

......eagerly awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us Jesus Christ Titus 2:13

For the son of man is going to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and will then repay every person according to his deeds.

.....until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who in his own time will show He who is the Blessed and only Power, the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal might. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:14-16
 

civic

Well-known member
Titus 2:13 in the Greek it’s the EXACT same construction in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11. So either Jesus is Lord and Savior/ God and Savior or He is neither one so that’s your actual choice . That’s what the plain reading of the text is period. Unitarians read their BIAS into 2 Peter1:1 because it goes against their beliefs . That’s what is really going on here and its eisegesis(reading their views into scripture) rather than exegesis.( reading the text apart from doctrine).

Peter refers to Christ as our God and Saviour- Lord and Saviour just the same as Paul in Titus 2:13 and it’s the same Greek construction in Titus 2:13 as it is in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11.

2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

It’s time for you to wake up to that fact. It’s impossible for you to read it any other way because of your doctrine.

And the One who is coming / appearing in the NT is always the Son and NEVER the Father.

This is a trinitarian slam dunk !

epiphanea

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Tim 6:14
14
that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Tim 1:10
10
but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,

2 Tim 4:1
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Tim 4:8
8
in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Titus 2:13
13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,



Parousia

Matt 24:3

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matt 24:27
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matt 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Cor 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thess 2:19

19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thess 3:13

13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thess 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 2:1

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

James 5:7

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

James 5:8

8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4
4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 John 2:28-29
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

And 2 Thes 2:8 links both His appearing / coming as the same event of Christ not the Father. Both epiphenea and parousia together below in the same verse.

2 Thes 2:8
8
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

1 Peter 1:7
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Case closed for the Unitarian camp !

This is where Unitarians really fail badly because they are so consumed with disproving the Deity of Christ that they fail with a well rounded theology which would benefit them greatly . You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father for He is never once in Scripture referred to as the One who is Coming/ Appearing . it is our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is Coming/Appearing in the clouds that every eye will see. Rev 1:7.

hope this helps !!!
where is @Our Lord's God
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
This IS part of the text of your OP!!!

"You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father."

To give you a chance to clarify that statement in your OP, I asked...

So according to your Trinitarian view, "God" in Titus 2:13 is NOT referring to "the LORD" in Isaiah 43:11. Correct?

Titus 2:13... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Isaiah 43:11... I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Are you able to answer the question about something you said in your OP, or not!
Strawman. The Son IS The Lord of Isaiah 43:11.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
So what should we do with these facts?........

......eagerly awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us Jesus Christ Titus 2:13

For the son of man is going to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and will then repay every person according to his deeds.

.....until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who in his own time will show He who is the Blessed and only Power, the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal might. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:14-16
The Son is coming in the glory of The Father AND His OWN glory.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Strawman. The Son IS The Lord of Isaiah 43:11.

Sorry but the LORD of Isaiah 43:11 is Jesus Christ's God and Jesus is the LORD's salvation.

then he took Him into his arms, and blessed God saying "Now Lord, You are releasing Your servant to depart in peace according to Your word for my eyes have seen YOUR salvation. Luke 2:28-30
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Strawman. The Son IS The Lord of Isaiah 43:11.

Just to clarify your TRINITARIAN view...

Does “the great God” in Titus 2:13 and “the LORD” in Isaiah 43:11 have the exact same referent?

I say Yes.

Titus 2:13... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Isaiah 43:11... I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
 

101G

Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
Peter refers to Christ as our God and Saviour- Lord and Saviour just the same as Paul in Titus 2:13 and it’s the same Greek construction in Titus 2:13 as it is in 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11.
Correct, as in clearly stated by the opeaning verses of, Titus 1:3 & 4 "But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;" (CLEARLY GOD IS THE SAVIOUR, NO AND IN BETWEEN "GOD", and "SAVIOUR", SO NO CONFUSION). NEXT VERSE.
Titus 1:4 "To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour."
here the "AND" is clearly showing God in the ECHAD of Father and Son is the SAME ONE PERSON, by the conjunction "AND", which was establish in the opeaning in verse 3. which establishe God = Saviour, who is Jesus Christ.
You see how all biblical doctrines fit together seamlessly and especially in this case prove beyond all doubt that the one and only Person Paul was referring to in Titus 2:13 as God was Jesus and not the Father for He is never once in Scripture referred to as the One who is Coming/ Appearing . it is our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is Coming/Appearing in the clouds that every eye will see. Rev 1:7.
Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." (HIM is ONE Person, and this ONE person is the Almighty), NEXT VERSE,
Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

the Almighty, not a Almighty, but the... the, Almighty. which is only ONE PERSON. now this,
Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect."

Lord is the Almighty, and this is JESUS, the Son.
LORD is the Almighty, and this is Jesus, the Father.

there is only "ONE" Almighty.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

civic

Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.

Correct, as in clearly stated by the opeaning verses of, Titus 1:3 & 4 "But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;" (CLEARLY GOD IS THE SAVIOUR, NO AND IN BETWEEN "GOD", and "SAVIOUR", SO NO CONFUSION). NEXT VERSE.
Titus 1:4 "To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour."
here the "AND" is clearly showing God in the ECHAD of Father and Son is the SAME ONE PERSON, by the conjunction "AND", which was establish in the opeaning in verse 3. which establishe God = Saviour, who is Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." (HIM is ONE Person, and this ONE person is the Almighty), NEXT VERSE,
Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

the Almighty, not a Almighty, but the... the, Almighty. which is only ONE PERSON. now this,
Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect."

Lord is the Almighty, and this is JESUS, the Son.
LORD is the Almighty, and this is Jesus, the Father.

there is only "ONE" Almighty.

PICJAG, 101G.
if I was oneness I would completely agree with you but as a Trinitarian I see 2 distinct Persons. But at least you do not deny the Deity of Christ,
 

civic

Well-known member
So what should we do with these facts?........

......eagerly awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us Jesus Christ Titus 2:13

For the son of man is going to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and will then repay every person according to his deeds.

.....until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who in his own time will show He who is the Blessed and only Power, the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal might. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:14-16
The fact is NEVER is the Father the one who is returning that every eye will see it is unanimously the Son who is Epiphinea( appearing) and Parousia( Coming ) in the clouds.

You are clueless and have never studied the topic of the Coming of the Lord which is OBVIOUS whereas I have studied it extensively from both Testaments.

You are so blinded and bias that you refuse to see the plain teaching in Scripture that it is the Son who is RETURNING that EVERY EYE will see whom scripture calls our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ- Titus 2:13.

hope this helps !!!
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
The fact is NEVER is the Father the one who is returning that every eye will see it is unanimously the Son who is Epiphinea( appearing) and Parousia( Coming ) in the clouds.

That's nice but nobody said Titus 2:13 says the Father is returning.

I'm afraid you don't understand what is going on.

You are clueless and have never studied the topic of the Coming of the Lord which is OBVIOUS whereas I have studied it extensively from both Testaments.

You are so blinded and bias that you refuse to see the plain teaching in Scripture that it is the Son who is RETURNING that EVERY EYE will see whom scripture calls our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ- Titus 2:13.

hope this helps !!!
 

civic

Well-known member
That's nice but nobody said Titus 2:13 says the Father is returning.

I'm afraid you don't understand what is going on.
Titus 2:13 is calling the One who is returning our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

You are refuted once again.

Like taking candy away from a child.

You can't exegete your way out of a paper bag. The worst hermeneutics from any unitarian I have seen on CARM.

hope this helps !!!
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Titus 2:13 is calling the One who is returning our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

No.

Titus 2:13 refers to the appearing of the glory of God and Savior Jesus Christ. The two referents are:

1. the glory of God
2. Savior Jesus Christ

Just like Matthew 16:27 also says.

You are refuted once again.

Like taking candy away from a child.

You can't exegete your way out of a paper bag. The worst hermeneutics from any unitarian I have seen on CARM.

hope this helps !!!
 

101G

Well-known member
if I was oneness I would completely agree with you but as a Trinitarian I see 2 distinct Persons. But at least you do not deny the Deity of Christ,
First, thanks for the reply, second, this is why this and other christian boards exist ...... to study and "DISCUSS" the Holy Word of God, instead of argument. this I thank you for. so lets discuss, I'm a ONENESS, but not as the UPC, and a few other teach. as said before, I'M a Diversified Oneness, or a believer of the "ECHAD" of God as the Ordinal First, the LORD, (all Caps), the Creator and Maker of ALL THINGS, who is the Spirit, better known by all as "GOD ALMIGHTY). and this One GOD who is ONE PERSON, is also the Ordinal LAST, the (Lord, only the "L" is in Caps), Who in Flesh with blood is Redeemer, and ...... "SAVIOUR", of all things, your titus 2:10. this same one GOD is in the "ECHAD", or the EQUAL "SHARE" of HIMSELF in Flesh, (hence his apperance to come.

understand my brother civic, I believew in ONE PERSON who is GOD.... a Spirit, who is JESUS, the ECHAD of First/Father, and Last/Son, who is the Holy Spirit.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." VERSE 2, Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Spirit "of" God is God..... John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

now, according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, the preposition, "OF", it translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction. OF God is God in his ACTIONS. putting it in Layman's terms, another word for "OF" is, about, concerning, regarding, referring to, relating to, relevant to ... ect, you get the picture,

so right in the BEGINNING, God is defined as the "Spirit". and this one Spirit/Person in the ECHAD, holds the title, FATHER, and Son, in referring to, relating to, relevant to, and concerning HIM, the Spirit.

hope this helps.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Spirit "of" God is God..... John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

And I suppose the son OF David is David.

And children OF God are God.

now, according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, the preposition, "OF", it translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction. OF God is God in his ACTIONS. putting it in Layman's terms, another word for "OF" is, about, concerning, regarding, referring to, relating to, relevant to ... ect, you get the picture,

so right in the BEGINNING, God is defined as the "Spirit". and this one Spirit/Person in the ECHAD, holds the title, FATHER, and Son, in referring to, relating to, relevant to, and concerning HIM, the Spirit.

hope this helps.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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