Unreasonable critics

Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
I've long since given up the hope that my responses here will convert anyone of anything. That's not my purpose here. I'm not saying that God won't use my posts in a way that brings more people to the truth, but it won't happen immediately after reading my posts, when people are more interested in defending their own theology than in being open to the truth.

One of my main purposes for being here is to correct false claims about what Calvinists actually believe. If you wish to reject or disagree with what we ACTUALLY believe, I don't have a problem with that. But when you make FALSE claims about what we believe, and try to convince others that we believe something derogatory, when we do NOT actually believe it, I have a problem with that.

A couple of good examples have come up today.


1) A Mormon keeps claiming that we believe in a "faith without works". He continues to make this false claim because he wants to throw James 2 at us and claim we're not saved. Well, we do NOT believe in a "faith without works". We believe in a faith that DOES work.

But instead of simply accepting that, and saying, "I'm glad you don't believe in a faith without works, that's a bad thing to believe, I'm glad you believe in a faith that does work, because that is what I think is true", they refuse to accept us at our word, and want to CONTINUE to believe that we believe in something false. That's ridiculus.


2) And then an Arminian keeps trying to claim, "You believe in a God who condemns people apart from anything they've ever done." And we go, "No, we don't believe that at all. We believe that people are condemned for the sins that they WILLINGLY commit." But instead of taking us at our word, and being happy that we DON'T believe in something they find so offensive, they decide that we DO believe it despite our denials, and continue to criticize us for things we don't even believe.

I would posit that people who unrepentantly tell such lies about Christians are not true Christians at all. Because true Christians love truth, and bearing false witness is a sin.
 
T

TomFL

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
I've long since given up the hope that my responses here will convert anyone of anything. That's not my purpose here. I'm not saying that God won't use my posts in a way that brings more people to the truth, but it won't happen immediately after reading my posts, when people are more interested in defending their own theology than in being open to the truth.

One of my main purposes for being here is to correct false claims about what Calvinists actually believe. If you wish to reject or disagree with what we ACTUALLY believe, I don't have a problem with that. But when you make FALSE claims about what we believe, and try to convince others that we believe something derogatory, when we do NOT actually believe it, I have a problem with that.

A couple of good examples have come up today.


1) A Mormon keeps claiming that we believe in a "faith without works". He continues to make this false claim because he wants to throw James 2 at us and claim we're not saved. Well, we do NOT believe in a "faith without works". We believe in a faith that DOES work.

But instead of simply accepting that, and saying, "I'm glad you don't believe in a faith without works, that's a bad thing to believe, I'm glad you believe in a faith that does work, because that is what I think is true", they refuse to accept us at our word, and want to CONTINUE to believe that we believe in something false. That's ridiculus.


2) And then an Arminian keeps trying to claim, "You believe in a God who condemns people apart from anything they've ever done." And we go, "No, we don't believe that at all. We believe that people are condemned for the sins that they WILLINGLY commit." But instead of taking us at our word, and being happy that we DON'T believe in something they find so offensive, they decide that we DO believe it despite our denials, and continue to criticize us for things we don't even believe.

I would posit that people who unrepentantly tell such lies about Christians are not true Christians at all. Because true Christians love truth, and bearing false witness is a sin.
Click to expand...
Tom: God is not the cause of all of men's sin

Theo: yes he is

case rested
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Tom: God is not the cause of all of men's sin

Theo: yes he is

case rested
Click to expand...

Wow....

Sorry, but that is NOT how the discussion went.
It went like this:

Tom: Man is eternally damned based on NOTHING he ever did;
Theo: No, he is condemned because of his WILFULL sins.

NOW, "Case rested".
 
T

TomFL

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
Wow....

Sorry, but that is NOT how the discussion went.
It went like this:

Tom: Man is eternally damned based on NOTHING he ever did;
Theo: No, he is condemned because of his WILFULL sins.

NOW, "Case rested".
Click to expand...
No no no

I am talking about a previous conversation we had about whether God is the cause of all of man's sin

I denied it

You affirmed it

Are you going to deny such a conversation transpired in the past ?
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
TomFL said:
No no no

I am talking about a previous conversation we had about whether God is the cause of all of man's sin

I denied it

You affirmed it

Are you going to deny such a conversation transpired in the past ?
Click to expand...

Quote where I ever said that.
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
TomFL said:
Are you going to deny it ?
Click to expand...
I would NEVER deny an affirmation that God is ultimately responsible for everything.
But the POINT is (and this is where you do NOT understand Calvinism), that does not absolve man of his responsibility for his sin.

Once again, Gen. 50:20.
Once again, Isa. 10:5-7.
Once again, Acts 4:27-28.

TomFL said:
You know the boards crashed and the records no longer exist
Click to expand...

That doesn't give you license to MISREPRESENT what I've said.
If you cannot prove I've said something, you'd best REFRAIN from misrepresenting me.
Bearing false witness is a sin, in case you weren't aware.

TomFL said:
So i will just ask are you going to deny it ?
Click to expand...

<sigh>

This is called "phishing".

1) You make a false claim.
2) You are challenged to prove it.
3) You can't.
4) So you try to ask me questions to try to GET me to say something I DON'T BELIEVE.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
T

TomFL

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
I would NEVER deny an affirmation that God is ultimately responsible for everything.
Click to expand...


So in other words you did affirm it

So why did you ask for a quote when you knew it was the truth


Theo1689 said:
Once again, Gen. 50:20.
Once again, Isa. 10:5-7.
Once again, Acts 4:27-28.
Click to expand...

They do not say God caused all of man's sin

That idea must be read into the passage
Theo1689 said:
That doesn't give you license to MISREPRESENT what I've said.
If you cannot prove I've said something, you'd best REFRAIN from misrepresenting me.
Bearing false witness is a sin, in case you weren't aware.
Click to expand...

Then don't do it

You have affirmed that is what you believe

How did I know it ?

Hmmm
y
Theo1689 said:
<sigh>

This is called "phishing".

1) You make a false claim.
2) You are challenged to prove it.
3) You can't.
4) So you try to ask me questions to try to GET me to say something I DON'T BELIEVE.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
Click to expand...
 
C

CES1951

Member
Theo1689 said:
I've long since given up the hope that my responses here will convert anyone of anything.
Click to expand...
I'm fairly new here, but I've read a lot of your posts. Maybe if you wouldn't constantly insult and demean other people they might be more inclined to listen to you. If you're an example of a typical Calvinist, then I'm stayng as far away from Calvinism as I can get! JMHO.
 
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T

TomFL

Well-known member
Theo1689 said:
I would NEVER deny an affirmation that God is ultimately responsible for everything.
But the POINT is (and this is where you do NOT understand Calvinism), that does not absolve man of his responsibility for his sin.

Once again, Gen. 50:20.
Once again, Isa. 10:5-7.
Once again, Acts 4:27-28.



That doesn't give you license to MISREPRESENT what I've said.
If you cannot prove I've said something, you'd best REFRAIN from misrepresenting me.
Bearing false witness is a sin, in case you weren't aware.



<sigh>

This is called "phishing".

1) You make a false claim.
2) You are challenged to prove it.
3) You can't.
4) So you try to ask me questions to try to GET me to say something I DON'T BELIEVE.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
Click to expand...
No you should be ashamed of yourself

For you know what I am saying is true

and in fact you affirmed it

So it is proven

Hello


Once again, Gen. 50:20.
Once again, Isa. 10:5-7.
Once again, Acts 4:27-28.

Do not teach God determines all of man sin


You began this post objecting to the idea that man was determined to sin and went a full 180 and now affirm it

as I stated you had in previous conversation

I denied God was the cause of all of man's sin

You affirmed just as you do right now
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
CES1951 said:
I'm fairly new here, but I've read a lot of your posts. Maybe if you wouldn't constantly insult and demean other people they might be more inclined to listen to you. If you're an example of a typical Calvinist, then I'm stayng as far away from Calvinism as I can get! JMHO.
Click to expand...

If you think I'm even a tenth insulting as the non-Calvinists here, then I really don't know what to tell you, as we clearly don't observe the same reality.

But just so we're clear... You went out of your way to write a post to me insulting me by claiming (without evidence) that I'm insulting to others? Um, okay.....?
 
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