Upon this rock/Keys

balshan said:
Yep Non was right and you institution does not teach sound doctrine and it follows its own desire that is why it has syncretized with pagan practices. That is why it hides sin, that is why it accepts the immoral sexual behaviour of its leaders. You see it does not matter what you and your institution says. It is the actions that talk and those actions why how badly your institution is affected by its false doctrines. They are not leading people to Jesus at all.
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Actually the Catholic church teaches the truth.
 
Bonnie said:
Hardly. It teaches some truth, but those truths have been virtually buried under a ton of man-made doctrines made equal to Scripture.
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Nope. If we want to know what we are to believe as Christians it is the teachings of the Catholic Church.
 
Arch Stanton said:
Evangelical scholar F.F. Bruce comments --

"And what about the 'keys of the kingdom' ? The keys of a royal or noble establishment were entrusted to the chief steward or majordomo; he carried them on his shoulder in earlier times, and there they served as a badge of the authority entrusted to him. About 700 B.C. an oracle from God announced that this authority in the royal palace in Jerusalem was to be conferred on a man called Eliakim ....(Isaiah 22:22). So in the new community which Jesus was about to build, Peter would be, so to speak, chief steward." (Bruce, The Hard Sayings of Jesus [Intervarsity Press, 1983], 143-144, as cited in Butler/Dahlgren/Hess, page 41)
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Tell me, Arch, if you please...did you get this Bruce quote directly from his book, or get it from some website?

DO note that being a chief steward of the church is not the same thing as being the FOUNDATION upon which the "new community", the Church, would be built. Which is what the RCC teaches--that Jesus meant Peter would be the Rock upon which He would build His church.

Not true. At all.

I have this book. It has some interesting things to say about Matthew 16:18.. Would you like to see some more? :) I can put them down here over the next couple of days, if you like.
 
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Bonnie said:
I am not using that quote in my signature to back up a theological argument, now--am I? I just happen to like the quote.

Can you not tell the difference?
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Well to be quite honest your Spurgeon quote is accurate but I would use another term instead of clowns. I mean the sheep have been harmed by RC leaders by those who committed the sins and those who hid the sins. Image Spurgeon's face if he encountered such sin and he would not hid it or allow it to continue.
 
Bonnie said:
Nope. If we want to know what we are to believe as Christians, it is the BIBLE to which we should go. And run far away from your church and its heterodoxical teachings.
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Did Jesus say this? He established a TEACHING Church. He made it the pillar and foundation of the truth. And if their are disagreements, take it to the Church!
 
balshan said:
Yep we are all given the message to spread, we are all to teach others about Jesus and we are all to test the spirits of those who claim to be leaders. Your leaders do not met the biblical requirements for leaders, so they don't have any keys at all. They have taken away the key of knowledge from their followers by false teachings.
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And spreading the Gospel is also part of the Keys of the Kingdom--unlocking the Gospel message for all to hear. :) We can all do that.
 
Bonnie said:
And spreading the Gospel is also part of the Keys of the Kingdom--unlocking the Gospel message for all to hear. :) We can all do that.
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That is made up by Protestants. The keys represent authority. Can't have any of that in the Church, can we?
 
balshan said:
Well to be quite honest your Spurgeon quote is accurate but I would use another term instead of clowns. I mean the sheep have been harmed by RC leaders by those who committed the sins and those who hid the sins. Image Spurgeon's face if he encountered such sin and he would not hid it or allow it to continue.
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Well, the Spurgeon quote is not directed specifically towards Catholics, but about all clergy who forget what church is supposed to be all about--proclaiming the Gospel--and make it more about entertaining parishioners, who happily go along with it.
 
Bonnie said:
And spreading the Gospel is also part of the Keys of the Kingdom--unlocking the Gospel message for all to hear. :) We can all do that.
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The keys in Jewish understanding meant protecting the scriptures. The RCC has never done that, they add fairy tales and false doctrines to it.
The keys were also for discipline. The RCC has never done that with its leaders throughout the centuries unless it suited their purposes. They hide the sin of their leaders. They ignore 1 Cor 5:11.
And Jesus shows the keys were for spreading the good news, as you say. The RCC has not done this the way Jesus and the apostles did it, they forced people to convert and maintained control through fear. Now they cave into popular demands for divorce, gay marriages etc.

The RCC misuse the keys as a means to maintain control over the masses, they do not use them as they were meant to be used and so they have false keys, like their doctrines.
 
Bonnie said:
Well, the Spurgeon quote is not directed specifically towards Catholics, but about all clergy who forget what church is supposed to be all about--proclaiming the Gospel--and make it more about entertaining parishioners, who happily go along with it.
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I understood that but it is appropriate for RCs to actually read it and apply it and this is the RCC thread. Spurgeon would never justify leaders who harm children, rape nuns, have children outside of marriage and bless idols.
 
balshan said:
The keys in Jewish understanding meant protecting the scriptures. The RCC has never done that, they add fairy tales and false doctrines to it.
The keys were also for discipline. The RCC has never done that with its leaders throughout the centuries unless it suited their purposes. They hide the sin of their leaders. They ignore 1 Cor 5:11.
And Jesus shows the keys were for spreading the good news, as you say. The RCC has not done this the way Jesus and the apostles did it, they forced people to convert and maintained control through fear. Now they cave into popular demands for divorce, gay marriages etc.

The RCC misuse the keys as a means to maintain control over the masses, they do not use them as they were meant to be used and so they have false keys, like their doctrines.
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Spot on, balshan! :)
 
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