"Vaccination Passports"

HillsboroMom

Active member
I've heard a lot of people complaining about so-called "Vax-ports," or, more specifically, passes that indicate you have been fully vaccinated.

How do y'all feel about businesses offering specials for people who show they are fully vaccinated? Like the free donut a day from Crispy Cremes, or a free joint if you're in Washington State.

What about the government incentives, like the lotteries that many states held?

How would you feel if some businesses denied service to people who were not vaccinated? For example, if a movie theater said you couldn't come into the theater unless you showed proof that you had been fully vaccinated, or eat at their restaurant?

I'm assuming everyone here would be against the government mandating vaccinations, but I'm curious how people feel about these voluntary options?
 

J regia

Well-known member
I've heard a lot of people complaining about so-called "Vax-ports," or, more specifically, passes that indicate you have been fully vaccinated.

How do y'all feel about businesses offering specials for people who show they are fully vaccinated? Like the free donut a day from Crispy Cremes, or a free joint if you're in Washington State.

What about the government incentives, like the lotteries that many states held?

How would you feel if some businesses denied service to people who were not vaccinated? For example, if a movie theater said you couldn't come into the theater unless you showed proof that you had been fully vaccinated, or eat at their restaurant?

I'm assuming everyone here would be against the government mandating vaccinations, but I'm curious how people feel about these voluntary options?
So be it - that's the choice and democratic right of each business to protect their customers. And similarly, one must have a driver's licence to drive on a public road.
 
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Furion

Well-known member
I've heard a lot of people complaining about so-called "Vax-ports," or, more specifically, passes that indicate you have been fully vaccinated.

How do y'all feel about businesses offering specials for people who show they are fully vaccinated? Like the free donut a day from Crispy Cremes, or a free joint if you're in Washington State.

What about the government incentives, like the lotteries that many states held?

How would you feel if some businesses denied service to people who were not vaccinated? For example, if a movie theater said you couldn't come into the theater unless you showed proof that you had been fully vaccinated, or eat at their restaurant?

I'm assuming everyone here would be against the government mandating vaccinations, but I'm curious how people feel about these voluntary options?
I would feel it is typical of a liberal social mandates.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
I've heard a lot of people complaining about so-called "Vax-ports," or, more specifically, passes that indicate you have been fully vaccinated.

How do y'all feel about businesses offering specials for people who show they are fully vaccinated? Like the free donut a day from Crispy Cremes, or a free joint if you're in Washington State.

What about the government incentives, like the lotteries that many states held?

How would you feel if some businesses denied service to people who were not vaccinated? For example, if a movie theater said you couldn't come into the theater unless you showed proof that you had been fully vaccinated, or eat at their restaurant?

I'm assuming everyone here would be against the government mandating vaccinations, but I'm curious how people feel about these voluntary options?
Some people are clinically unable to take the vaccine. As long as provision is made for them, I see no reason not to support such things. They are mostly making headway in the travel and tourism sector as far as I can see.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Some people are clinically unable to take the vaccine. As long as provision is made for them, I see no reason not to support such things. They are mostly making headway in the travel and tourism sector as far as I can see.
What “provisions” would be made for those who can’t take the shots? They would be able to get in with the vaccinated people?

Would you restrict everyone else from flying anywhere, ever? Or would you have separate planes for those who agreed to take the experimental drug?
 

Temujin

Well-known member
What “provisions” would be made for those who can’t take the shots? They would be able to get in with the vaccinated people?
Sure, why not? A recognised medical certificate equivalent to a vaccination passport.
Would you restrict everyone else from flying anywhere, ever?
Sure, why not? Would you want to share a plane with Typhoid Mary?
Or would you have separate planes for those who agreed to take the experimental drug?
If those who haven't taken the vaccine cannot fly, then that is the position.

Actually, it seems to be not that you are not allowed to fly but you must pay to take a test at the beginning and end of your holiday and also pay for 2 week quarantine in a hotel when you come back. Seems like a small price to pay to avoid a vaccine that millions have taken safely.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Sure, why not? A recognised medical certificate equivalent to a vaccination passport.
If they’re not vaccinated, aren’t they a threat to you like everyone else who isn’t? What difference does a piece of paper make? The vaccinated person could have covid too.

Sure, why not? Would you want to share a plane with Typhoid Mary?
If you’re vaccinated against typhoid, why would you care?

If those who haven't taken the vaccine cannot fly, then that is the position.

Actually, it seems to be not that you are not allowed to fly but you must pay to take a test at the beginning and end of your holiday and also pay for 2 week quarantine in a hotel when you come back. Seems like a small price to pay to avoid a vaccine that millions have taken safely.

We’re talking about unvaccinated people not being allowed to go anywhere or do anything at all.

Do you not want to let them into grocery stores? How do you know the person next in line doesn’t have covid, or the flu, or the bubonic plague? If you’re so scared, you should live in a bubble.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
We’re talking about unvaccinated people not being allowed to go anywhere or do anything at all.

Who is this "we"? Who, exactly, is "talking about unvaccinated people not being allowed to go anywhere or do anything at all"?

I was asking about specific businesses making their own decisions, each individually, whether they would provide equal services to everyone, or whether they would provide separate services to vaccinated vs. unvaccinated customers, or whether they would choose not to provide services to unvaccinated people at all, etc.

Now, if every business, from the small mom-and-pop shops to the mega-corporations, decided not to provide any services or to sell products at all to any unvaccinated people, I think a lot of people would start to put up a fight, and I would be among the first people to complain. That would be unjust, and liberals and conservatives alike would fight against it.

Now, in the past few months, as more and more states ease up on the restrictions, I've only heard one person suggest that we should all keep wearing masks, whether or not we are vaccinated. That person is extremely conservative (not that that means anything), and is neither a government policy maker nor a business owner, so it's not like this person has any power to carry out their views. Just saying that the mandatory vax position is not necessarily from the liberal side.

Now, do you want to answer the question, or just keep throwing up strawmen?
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
If they’re not vaccinated, aren’t they a threat to you like everyone else who isn’t? What difference does a piece of paper make? The vaccinated person could have covid too.

If a person is unvaccinated for health reasons, they are certainly being extremely careful, wearing a mask themselves, and staying away from any high-risk activities, people, and areas, so they are NOT as much of a threat to me, that an unvaccinated person who is not avoiding risky behaviors would be.

And well over 99% of all new COVID cases are from unvaccinated people. So no, the chances of a vaccinated person having COVID are extremely small.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
If a person is unvaccinated for health reasons, they are certainly being extremely careful, wearing a mask themselves, and staying away from any high-risk activities, people, and areas, so they are NOT as much of a threat to me, that an unvaccinated person who is not avoiding risky behaviors would be.

And well over 99% of all new COVID cases are from unvaccinated people. So no, the chances of a vaccinated person having COVID are extremely small.
Then why are vaccinated people still getting it? If you got the shots, why are you worried about it?
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Who is this "we"? Who, exactly, is "talking about unvaccinated people not being allowed to go anywhere or do anything at all"?

I was asking about specific businesses making their own decisions, each individually, whether they would provide equal services to everyone, or whether they would provide separate services to vaccinated vs. unvaccinated customers, or whether they would choose not to provide services to unvaccinated people at all, etc.

Now, if every business, from the small mom-and-pop shops to the mega-corporations, decided not to provide any services or to sell products at all to any unvaccinated people, I think a lot of people would start to put up a fight, and I would be among the first people to complain. That would be unjust, and liberals and conservatives alike would fight against it.

Now, in the past few months, as more and more states ease up on the restrictions, I've only heard one person suggest that we should all keep wearing masks, whether or not we are vaccinated. That person is extremely conservative (not that that means anything), and is neither a government policy maker nor a business owner, so it's not like this person has any power to carry out their views. Just saying that the mandatory vax position is not necessarily from the liberal side.

Now, do you want to answer the question, or just keep throwing up strawmen?

Every day I hear comments from liberals and vaccinated people saying they think the unvaccinated should be restricted and excluded from services, activities, travel, etc. Some have said they should be “punished,” and life should be made “hard” for them. You mentioned movies and restaurants.


 

Temujin

Well-known member
If they’re not vaccinated, aren’t they a threat to you like everyone else who isn’t? What difference does a piece of paper make? The vaccinated person could have covid too.

Let me use an analogy. If no one in the community did any work, the community would not last long. The more people work, the better the community thrives. Some people, the disabled for instance are unable to work, yet the community supports them in a way they do not support the wilfully idle. You are suggesting that we should treat disabled people the way we treat the work-shy. Why is that? It doesn't sound a very conservative suggestion, or indeed a very Christian one.
If you’re vaccinated against typhoid, why would you care?
Because firstly, though the vaccine is extremely effective, it is not 100% effective. No vaccine is. Secondly, the more opportunities the vaccine has to replicate, the more variants are produced, giving more chance of a variant which is more dangerous. Thirdly, it isn't about me. Unlike the selfish unvaccinated person, I am thinking of my family members and others on the plane who are not vaccinated and are endangered by the stupidity of others.
We’re talking about unvaccinated people not being allowed to go anywhere or do anything at all.
Of course "we" are not. There is a very simple way for unvaccinated people to avoid all restrictions placed on them.
Do you not want to let them into grocery stores? How do you know the person next in line doesn’t have covid, or the flu, or the bubonic plague? If you’re so scared, you should live in a bubble.
As I have already said (why is it that conservatives think that everybody is only concerned about themselves? Is it the ideology of selfish people, I wonder?) it isn't about me. It is about the community as a whole, my neighbours, my colleagues, my family, my friends. We all of us need protection from this particular disease because it is new and virulent. The Black Death killed one third of the entire population of Europe and changed the course of history completely, because it was a new infection which no-one had immunity to. I believe that the plague still can be found in parts of the US but it is nothing to what it was, because there are natural immunities built up over long exposure to different outbreaks. We don't need to go through the same process with Covid. We can prevent the majority of deaths. We can create artificial immunity through vaccines, which save countless lives. Why would you deliberately choose the health care options of the Middle Ages? Why blindly accept quack cures but be scared of those that work? Why scoff at simple hygiene methods, proven to reduce infection rates? It is you that is scared, so society is putting you in a bubble.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Difficult decisions. All things considered I am personally thankful for the vaccines.

One doesnt need a vaccination paasport for travel though because this information is available electronically
 

Rockson

Active member
I can't help be curious how those who favor vaccine passports how they will feel about dear loved ones who won't take a vaccine. And I mean ones who you truly love. How will it make you feel that when you're thinking of going to a sports event with them or some other place that they tell you sorry I just don't have the rights of ordinary people. And now you see they'll probably live out the rest of their lives in a diminished fashion of any enjoyment? Would your hearts be so hard that you have an attitude FORGET THEM! They're mean selfish people anyway even though they're terrified to get the shots that's what they are! Going forward exactly how will you think about them?
 

Temujin

Well-known member
I can't help be curious how those who favor vaccine passports how they will feel about dear loved ones who won't take a vaccine. And I mean ones who you truly love. How will it make you feel that when you're thinking of going to a sports event with them or some other place that they tell you sorry I just don't have the rights of ordinary people. And now you see they'll probably live out the rest of their lives in a diminished fashion of any enjoyment? Would your hearts be so hard that you have an attitude FORGET THEM! They're mean selfish people anyway even though they're terrified to get the shots that's what they are! Going forward exactly how will you think about them?
Speaking personally, I would be glad that any unvaccinated family members I have would be safer not attending such events until and unless they are vaccinated. The unvaccinated have exactly the same rights as anyone else. They are not diminished in any way. They are making an informed choice based on what is important to them . It strikes me as selfish to want the benefits from both choices without any of the downsides. (Less of course the major benefit of being protected from a serious disease.) Life is full of opportunity costs. As we make a choice to take one path, other paths are closed. Make the choice and stop whimpering.
 

Steven Avery

Well-known member
they tell you sorry I just don't have the rights of ordinary people.

Jabbed people are not ordinary. Especially not mRNA jabs. They are at great risk in the years ahead. And they are being put on jab-a-thons of boosters, variants, shamdemics.

Many healthy people are concerned that the problems of jabbed people can effect the healthy unjabbed. There are especially reports of this related to woman's problems.
 

Rockson

Active member
I've heard a lot of people complaining about so-called "Vax-ports," or, more specifically, passes that indicate you have been fully vaccinated.
I suspect in certain states or provinces (if in Canada) you'll probably be made to take a vaccine. Perhaps not you're breaking the law and fined for not having done so but if the grocery stores and medical clinics insist on it or you can't get in....what choice do people REALLY have. I've already seen a medical clinic which sees after my elderly mother who is vaccinated that anyone not vaccinated cannot bring her in. The one who does so is vaccinated too but the point is when you make it that difficult for people then I think in effect you've basically made them do what they may be terrified to do....and that's get a vaccine. And let's be clear on that too. Many are not just trying to be stubborn or selfish....they're just very, very afraid to taking a vaccine.
How do y'all feel about businesses offering specials for people who show they are fully vaccinated? Like the free donut a day from Crispy Cremes, or a free joint if you're in Washington State.
Wow a free donut...a sugar bomb that not really that good for you anyway.
What about the government incentives, like the lotteries that many states held?
Couldn't that be deemed a tax cut for the compliant?
How would you feel if some businesses denied service to people who were not vaccinated? For example, if a movie theater said you couldn't come into the theater unless you showed proof that you had been fully vaccinated, or eat at their restaurant?
How I'd feel would depend on how many truly aren't vaccinated. If the numbers are very small who aren't my feelings would be one way. If in fact the numbers are greater then they claim and sorry but my gut feeling tells me they are for I've seen so many, many people tell me they're not vaccinated....It just seem to me more then the numbers they say that are....I would think these business establishments would feel the pain of it so very much themselves. They'd see people walking by and when hoping they might come in they're told, "Sorry you've made it clear I'm not welcome here! I'd love to put money in your pocket but apparently you don't want it!" But how would it make me feel if I wasn't vaccinated. I suppose I'd feel I guess really my life was over when it would come to that basic way of life. I suppose the long haul of it might be very difficult to take but I think I could envision a few years down the road....word gets out this place isn't demanding a passport....and this one and this one....and perhaps the whole thing would collapse. Not sure if society over all would have the will to sustain something like that forever. It might even depress some of them that dear ones they know aren't given the privilege's to enjoy life.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Speaking personally, I would be glad that any unvaccinated family members I have would be safer not attending such events until and unless they are vaccinated. The unvaccinated have exactly the same rights as anyone else. They are not diminished in any way. They are making an informed choice based on what is important to them . It strikes me as selfish to want the benefits from both choices without any of the downsides. (Less of course the major benefit of being protected from a serious disease.) Life is full of opportunity costs. As we make a choice to take one path, other paths are closed. Make the choice and stop whimpering.
You're the ones who are whimpering... “they won’t take the shots, whaaa,” “they’re selfish,” “they should have their rights and privileges taken away.” Someone please call a whaa...mbulance.

You made the choice and took the shots. Now stop whining.
 

Rockson

Active member
Speaking personally, I would be glad that any unvaccinated family members I have would be safer not attending such events until and unless they are vaccinated. The unvaccinated have exactly the same rights as anyone else. They are not diminished in any way. They are making an informed choice based on what is important to them . It strikes me as selfish to want the benefits from both choices without any of the downsides. (Less of course the major benefit of being protected from a serious disease.) Life is full of opportunity costs. As we make a choice to take one path, other paths are closed. Make the choice and stop whimpering.
Good points but I think two different people could say, "Sorry I just don't have the rights of ordinary people." and one is whimpering and the other is not. One could just be telling you they don't have the same rights and some may not even be offended by that.
 
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