Vatican Cardinal says "Theology of the Church has changed"

[Mysterium Fidei]

"Cardinal Roche says Latin Mass needs to be restricted because the ‘theology of the Church has changed."

Defending the increasing restrictions on the Traditional Latin Mass, Cardinal Arthur Roche – who leads the Vatican’s Congregation (now Dicastery) for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments – stated that “the theology of the Church has changed.”

Speaking on BBC Radio 4 for a program aired March 19, Roche defended the restrictions on the Traditional Mass, which both he and Pope Francis have implemented since July 2021.

“The theology of the Church has changed,” argued Roche. “Whereas before the priest represented, at a distance, all the people – they were channeled through this person who alone was celebrating the Mass.”

Now, though, Roche stated that “it is not only the priest who celebrates the liturgy but also those who are baptized with him, and that is an enormous statement to make.”

The traditional Latin Mass of the ages does not "fit" into the new religion created by Vatican II and must be eliminated from their religion, as it is too Catholic.

The Vatican II religion wants to eliminate the difference between the priest and laity. The priest is now just one of the "boys", so to speak, and the laity are now the "priestly people" and are essential in the offering of the Novus Ordo "mass". So now there is all kinds of "participation" of the laity in the mass, such as lay lectors, liturgical dancing girls, eucharistic ministers and such, and the priest is merely an observer in most of the Novus Ordo mass.

The actual teaching on lay "participation" in the mass can be found in Pope Pius XII's encyclical Mediator Dei.

It was rumored by several credible sources that Bergoglio was going to release another document further restricting the use of the traditional Latin Mass during Holy Week. This didn't come about, possibly because of his unexpected stay in the hospital, or possibly because he is going to make further revisions, or for some other unknown reason.

Cdl. Roche says Latin Mass needs to be restricted because the 'theology of the Church has changed' - LifeSite

Cardinal Arthur Roche's latest claim to defend the restrictions on the Traditional Latin Mass runs in opposition to the teaching of popes throughout history.

www.lifesitenews.com

 

[PeanutGallery]

"Cardinal Roche says Latin Mass needs to be restricted because the ‘theology of the Church has changed."...

RCC has not changed; it is progressively revealing itself.

2Cor 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

 

[Atemi]

Vatican Cardinal says "Theology of the Church has changed"​

No duh. Of course.

And it does not end here.

Since the RC Masters are the ones who have the supposed authority to tell you what is really real Catholic teaching, you are obligated to obey, submit, and go along with it all.

If the Roman Catholic Church is still around in 500 years, it will look nothing like the RCC of today. Catholics today would deny, deny, deny what the future RCC will teach and practice....but the Catholics then will be on super futuristic virtual reality forums swearing that all their new sect teachings were always the teachings of the Catholic Church and the Apostles.

Once you buy the baloney, you have to eat it...and sell it....never admitting to anyone what is in it.

 

[Mysterium Fidei]

Cardinal Cantalamessa, Preacher of the Papal Household, said: "The Catholic liturgy underwent a transformation from an action with a strong sacred and priestly imprint to a more communal and participatory action, where all the people of God have their part, each with their own ministry."

What Cardinal Roche and Cardinal Cantalamessa are saying, is that the Traditional Latin Mass does not correspond with the new theology of the new religion created at Vatican II. In particular the Traditional Latin Mass does not correspond with the new theology of the Novus Ordo "mass" as a communal meal in which the participation of the "people of god" is necessary, and the status of the priest celebrant is lowered to the "president of the assembly."

This is why Bergoglio is trying to eliminate the Traditional Latin Mass entirely from his Novus Ordo sect. It is too Catholic and conveys too clearly the Catholic doctrines concerning the Mass.

 

[Stella1000]

Cardinal Cantalamessa, Preacher of the Papal Household, said: "The Catholic liturgy underwent a transformation from an action with a strong sacred and priestly imprint to a more communal and participatory action, where all the people of God have their part, each with their own ministry."

What Cardinal Roche and Cardinal Cantalamessa are saying, is that the Traditional Latin Mass does not correspond with the new theology of the new religion created at Vatican II. In particular the Traditional Latin Mass does not correspond with the new theology of the Novus Ordo "mass" as a communal meal in which the participation of the "people of god" is necessary, and the status of the priest celebrant is lowered to the "president of the assembly."

This is why Bergoglio is trying to eliminate the Traditional Latin Mass entirely from his Novus Ordo sect. It is too Catholic and conveys too clearly the Catholic doctrines concerning the Mass.

I'm all for returning to the Mass of the early Church as a model of our Thanksgiving. Clericalism got out of hand in my opinion. We need to be more simple and close to Jesus vision of Eucharist. One of the earliest descriptions of the first Masses comes from Justin Martyr's First Apology (Ch 67) from the beginning of the 2nd century.

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.

 

[Atemi]

I'm all for returning to the Mass of the early Church as a model of our Thanksgiving.

Sure.

Home churches with large meals, no priests, and no wafer worship.

I am all for it!

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.

Sounds like Protestant services today.

 

[balshan]

Sure.

Home churches with large meals, no priests, and no wafer worship.

I am all for it!




Sounds like Protestant services today.

It seems like they did not dress up in fancy dress and it is nothing like the RCC services of today at all.

 

[Lastdaysbeliever]

Cardinal Cantalamessa, Preacher of the Papal Household, said: "The Catholic liturgy underwent a transformation from an action with a strong sacred and priestly imprint to a more communal and participatory action, where all the people of God have their part, each with their own ministry."

What Cardinal Roche and Cardinal Cantalamessa are saying, is that the Traditional Latin Mass does not correspond with the new theology of the new religion created at Vatican II. In particular the Traditional Latin Mass does not correspond with the new theology of the Novus Ordo "mass" as a communal meal in which the participation of the "people of god" is necessary, and the status of the priest celebrant is lowered to the "president of the assembly."

This is why Bergoglio is trying to eliminate the Traditional Latin Mass entirely from his Novus Ordo sect. It is too Catholic and conveys too clearly the Catholic doctrines concerning the Mass.

I haven't seen any of your comments for a while. If you've been gone, welcome back MF.

 

[Mysterium Fidei]

I'm all for returning to the Mass of the early Church as a model of our Thanksgiving. Clericalism got out of hand in my opinion. We need to be more simple and close to Jesus vision of Eucharist. One of the earliest descriptions of the first Masses comes from Justin Martyr's First Apology (Ch 67) from the beginning of the 2nd century.

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.

The Novus Ordo "mass" is in no way a restoration of the earliest forms of the Mass as it was celebrated in the early Church. The modernists at Vatican II used this archaeologism as a pretext, giving lip service to tradition, to implement liturgical novelties in the creation of the new "mass." This false appeal to antiquity is always selective with the modernists. They pick and choose the early elements that fit with their modernist agenda, and discard the rest, even things that are equally ancient or more ancient, such as the ad orientem stance.

Pope Pius XII, in his 1947 encyclical Mediator Dei, warned against what he termed an “exaggerated and senseless antiquarianism” in the reform of the Sacred Liturgy.

 

[Mysterium Fidei]

I haven't seen any of your comments for a while. If you've been gone, welcome back MF.

Thank you. I gave this place up for Lent! LOL!

 

[Atemi]

This false appeal to antiquity is always selective with the modernists.

Correction: this false appeal to antiquity is always selective with every stripe of Catholic.

 

[Stella1000]

Sure.

Home churches with large meals, no priests, and no wafer worship.

I am all for it!




Sounds like Protestant services today.

Except for the all important meaning of the blessing of the bread and wine. In the previous chapter of his First Apology (Ch 66), Justin Martyr explains...

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.

 

[Atemi]

Except for the all important meaning of the blessing of the bread and wine.

You don't know there are many Protestants that are literalists?

 

[Stella1000]

You don't know there are many Protestants that are literalists?

Most nonCC's on here though are very malicious towards Catholic belief in the Eucharist.

 

[balshan]

Most nonCC's on here though are very malicious towards Catholic belief in the Eucharist.

That is incorrect, they point out the flaws in the false teaching about communion taught by the RCC. RCs fail to respond and reply to the valid questions asked about their belief.

 

[Atemi]

You don't know there are many Protestants that are literalists?

Most nonCC's on here though are very malicious towards Catholic belief in the Eucharist.

Not because you are literalists.

It is because of Catholic idolatry and the worship of inanimate objects.

Most Catholics don't even believe it anyway.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

"Cardinal Roche says Latin Mass needs to be restricted because the ‘theology of the Church has changed."

Defending the increasing restrictions on the Traditional Latin Mass, Cardinal Arthur Roche – who leads the Vatican’s Congregation (now Dicastery) for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments – stated that “the theology of the Church has changed.”

Speaking on BBC Radio 4 for a program aired March 19, Roche defended the restrictions on the Traditional Mass, which both he and Pope Francis have implemented since July 2021.

“The theology of the Church has changed,” argued Roche. “Whereas before the priest represented, at a distance, all the people – they were channeled through this person who alone was celebrating the Mass.”

Now, though, Roche stated that “it is not only the priest who celebrates the liturgy but also those who are baptized with him, and that is an enormous statement to make.”

The traditional Latin Mass of the ages does not "fit" into the new religion created by Vatican II and must be eliminated from their religion, as it is too Catholic.

The Vatican II religion wants to eliminate the difference between the priest and laity. The priest is now just one of the "boys", so to speak, and the laity are now the "priestly people" and are essential in the offering of the Novus Ordo "mass". So now there is all kinds of "participation" of the laity in the mass, such as lay lectors, liturgical dancing girls, eucharistic ministers and such, and the priest is merely an observer in most of the Novus Ordo mass.

The actual teaching on lay "participation" in the mass can be found in Pope Pius XII's encyclical Mediator Dei.

It was rumored by several credible sources that Bergoglio was going to release another document further restricting the use of the traditional Latin Mass during Holy Week. This didn't come about, possibly because of his unexpected stay in the hospital, or possibly because he is going to make further revisions, or for some other unknown reason.

Cdl. Roche says Latin Mass needs to be restricted because the 'theology of the Church has changed' - LifeSite

Cardinal Arthur Roche's latest claim to defend the restrictions on the Traditional Latin Mass runs in opposition to the teaching of popes throughout history.

www.lifesitenews.com

Here we go with your rad trad nonsense. Why are you so hung up on the Tridentine Rite? How is your beliefs not an example of idolatry of form?

And by the way--I do not agree with what Pope Francis has done in restricting the Rite. Though--he did allow the Fraternity of Saint Peter to continue. If you are so into Latin, why not go to a Frat parish?

In any case--Francis fiddles and the Church burns. While I disagree with rad trads, they aren't the enemy. I have no problem with them doing their thing--as long as they do not force me to do it with them. Francis should be focused on teaching the Faith and refuting error than worrying about a bunch of rad trads and their liturgical preferences.

 

[Southsider071]

Mr. Roche is absolutely correct in his observation that the theology of the RCC has changed, because its always changed. Historians can point out when the RCC came out with transubstantiation, the assumption of Mary and the immaculate conception, among many other dogmas.

The Catholic Latin Mass first came out in the late 16th Century. The reason it is properly called "Tridentine" , because it came from the Council of Trent- and "Tridentine" is a Latin word designating that city.

Shaking things up by changing the masses around is something that the Magisterium likes to do every few centuries.

 

[Mysterium Fidei]

Here we go with your rad trad nonsense. Why are you so hung up on the Tridentine Rite? How is your beliefs not an example of idolatry of form?

And by the way--I do not agree with what Pope Francis has done in restricting the Rite. Though--he did allow the Fraternity of Saint Peter to continue. If you are so into Latin, why not go to a Frat parish?

In any case--Francis fiddles and the Church burns. While I disagree with rad trads, they aren't the enemy. I have no problem with them doing their thing--as long as they do not force me to do it with them. Francis should be focused on teaching the Faith and refuting error than worrying about a bunch of rad trads and their liturgical preferences.

Bergoglio is not teaching the Faith or defending the Faith, and he's certainly not refuting any error. He is destroying the Faith and spreading error and heresy. He is trying to snuff out the last remaining vestiges of any Catholicism that is left in his Novus Ordo religion.

A high-ranking Vatican Cardinal, Arthur Roche – who leads the Vatican’s Congregation Dicastery for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments, and who was appointed to his current position by your fake apostate "pope", Jorge Bergoglio, has said out loud what traditionalists have been saying for decades.

He acknowledged that Vatican II changed the theology of the Catholic Church and that the Traditional Latin Mass does not correspond to this new theology and teaching of the Novus Ordo sect in regard to the Novus Ordo Missae.

There is an axiom in the Catholic Church, which is Lex orandi, lex credendi, which is "the law of praying is the law of believing." This means that prayer and belief are integral to each other, and that liturgy is not distinct from theology. It refers to the relationship between worship and belief. You believe as you pray. The two cannot be separated.

The Novus Ordo Missae is an illegitimate, intrinsically defective, Protestantized rite that departs from Catholic belief and tradition and, as such, it is a danger to the faith.

In 1969, after the introduction of the Novus Ordo "mass", Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci, along with several other Catholic theologians, created a document that came to be known as the "Ottaviani Intervention." They presented this document to Montini (Paul VI). This document stated, in part, that the Novus Ordo Missae: "represents both as a whole, and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session 22 of the Council of Trent".

This statement was in reference to the purest version of the Novus Ordo "mass", without any guitars or balloons or clowns or liturgical dancing girls or lady eucharistic ministers or altar girls or lay lectors or LGBT masses or any other of the endless novelties that you may see at any given Novus Ordo "mass."

I truly hope that your fake "pope", Mr. Bergoglio, is successful in his quest to totally rid his Novus Ordo religion of the Traditional Latin Mass. I completely agree with "Cardinal" Roche that the Traditional Latin Mass does not correspond to the new theology of the new religion of Vatican II and doesn't belong there.

 

[Atemi]

The Novus Ordo Missae is an illegitimate, intrinsically defective, Protestantized rite that departs from Catholic belief and tradition and, as such, it is a danger to the faith.

"That is just your opinion"

As a Catholic, you KNOW that is the answer to everything. I empathize with you, but I never know how you say this stuff with a straight face.

The ONLY ones who have a say as to what Catholic belief and tradition really really are are the Catholic Masters. Not you. Not romish. You know this. This is your religion.

Your ONLY duty as a Catholic is to bow your head and submit to and obey everything the Catholic Masters tell you...no matter what it is....because it is your religion that they cannot possibly be wrong.

Yes...you are using your head and you can clearly see the farce. It is plain. But that is not your prerogative in your sect.