Vernon Claude Peppers and the Deadline to Escape Eternal Death

treeplanter

Active member
God loves us {supposedly}

God wants us to be with Him {so it is said}

Why then does God choose to banish someone to Hell for having come to Him one second too late?

Vernon Claude Peppers died without believing in God

It's not that he didn't want to believe, it's just that he simply could not bring himself to believe in God anymore than he could bring himself to believe in the Tooth Fairy

Vernon Claude Peppers wasn't rebelling
There was no malice in his heart

It was never a matter of rejection - only an honest failure of recognition

At the moment that Vernon Claude Peppers departed this earth, he did not believe in God
An instant later, he found himself standing before God - his disbelief having instantly melted away

Vernon Claude Peppers exclaimed: "Had I only known, I would never have doubted much less dismissed!"

God {who supposedly loves Vernon Claude Peppers} told him: "Tough"

God {who desires, so it is said, that Vernon Claude Peppers be eternally with Him} tossed the dearly departed Mr Peppers, nonetheless, into the Lake of Fire


Can somebody please explain this to me?
 

treeplanter

Active member
Are you ready?



"doubted much less dismissed"

He didn't repent. Refused to obey.

Why did you leave out the Repent requirement? You can't fool God.
Repent is part and parcel of belief in Jesus Christ
I didn't leave it out - I simply assumed that the reader knows that repentance is a prerequisite of salvation through Christ

Now, have you an answer for why God should have decided that coming to Christ in the moment before death is sufficient for salvation, but coming to Christ just a moment later is not?

Please do explain how it is good and loving to subject someone that you supposedly love to an eternity of unimaginable torment simply because this person is a single second late in coming to his senses...
 

SteveB

Well-known member
God loves us {supposedly}

God wants us to be with Him {so it is said}

Why then does God choose to banish someone to Hell for having come to Him one second too late?

Vernon Claude Peppers died without believing in God

It's not that he didn't want to believe, it's just that he simply could not bring himself to believe in God anymore than he could bring himself to believe in the Tooth Fairy

Vernon Claude Peppers wasn't rebelling
There was no malice in his heart

It was never a matter of rejection - only an honest failure of recognition

At the moment that Vernon Claude Peppers departed this earth, he did not believe in God
An instant later, he found himself standing before God - his disbelief having instantly melted away

Vernon Claude Peppers exclaimed: "Had I only known, I would never have doubted much less dismissed!"

God {who supposedly loves Vernon Claude Peppers} told him: "Tough"

God {who desires, so it is said, that Vernon Claude Peppers be eternally with Him} tossed the dearly departed Mr Peppers, nonetheless, into the Lake of Fire


Can somebody please explain this to me?
It wasn't a second too late.
It was a lifetime too late.
Claude -- in your mind's view of him--- ignored the message of the gospel of Jesus for his entire life. However long that life may have been.

Since you leave out Claude's lifespan, let's assume he lived to a ripe old age of 102. He had lots of kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, and even a great-great-grandchild or two.
He had a fantastic career, made plenty of money, had a wife who actually loved him, etc.......

According to Romans 1, God has given everyone the same amount of information, so that even if they don't hear the gospel. they have enough to know that God is real, regardless of the choices they make.
According to Psalm 19, we all have the ability to perceive the cosmos, and the world around us.

So, actually, Claude had to choose. He could've chosen to believe God, but instead, he chose to believe himself, and his own mind, ego, ideas, in spite of the love, friendship, laughter, numerous generations of children, children's children, and children's children's children. He saw his own children, and grandchildren grow up to become wealthy, happy, and satisfied humans, who themselves were filled with love, and laughter. He even saw a couple of his kids become followers of Jesus, and after their telling him about Jesus, he turned his back on them, and rejected them as his children. After all.... no self-respecting successful business man could father such imbeciles, even though they too were quite successful in their own right.

So... no Tree.... Claude was not a second too late. He was a lifetime of goodness, kindness, love, laughter, friendships, financial, and emotional success too late.
He had all the "right stuff" and dismissed it, acting like he himself was not a blessed, and gifted man. That he himself, without any outside giftings, or resources, succeeded, and no one else was "to blame" for his lot in life.

He wasn't one second too late. He had 102 years, at 86,400 seconds/day, 365.25 days/year.
If he died, at the last second, of his 102 year life, one second prior to his 103rd birthday, he'd have lived

3,218,875,200 seconds.
That's 3.2 BILLION seconds.
three billion, two hundred eighteen million, eight hundred seventy five thousand, two hundred seconds.

So... the man was not lacking in seconds here. He didn't wait one second too long. He blew past the same limit we all have.....
We're all given a life to live. Some people don't have it as good as Claude had it.


Here's a report about people in North Korea, whose entire lives are decimated by a government who is terrified to let others live as free men and women. So, they cage those who don't follow the party line.

So....
poor, pitiful, old Claude. He got cheated, and was sent to hell because he waited to his 3,218,875,201st second.....

As it's written.....
It's appointed to man, once to die, and afterwards to judgment.

It's the same for every single human being on earth. From Adam, down to the last one at some point in some as yet undefined future.

What will you do?
Looks to me like Claude had a great life. It's a pity he didn't want to listen to his children. Who else could love him more?
 

treeplanter

Active member
It wasn't a second too late.
It was a lifetime too late.
Claude -- in your mind's view of him--- ignored the message of the gospel of Jesus for his entire life. However long that life may have been.

Since you leave out Claude's lifespan, let's assume he lived to a ripe old age of 102. He had lots of kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, and even a great-great-grandchild or two.
He had a fantastic career, made plenty of money, had a wife who actually loved him, etc.......

According to Romans 1, God has given everyone the same amount of information, so that even if they don't hear the gospel. they have enough to know that God is real, regardless of the choices they make.
According to Psalm 19, we all have the ability to perceive the cosmos, and the world around us.

So, actually, Claude had to choose. He could've chosen to believe God, but instead, he chose to believe himself, and his own mind, ego, ideas, in spite of the love, friendship, laughter, numerous generations of children, children's children, and children's children's children. He saw his own children, and grandchildren grow up to become wealthy, happy, and satisfied humans, who themselves were filled with love, and laughter. He even saw a couple of his kids become followers of Jesus, and after their telling him about Jesus, he turned his back on them, and rejected them as his children. After all.... no self-respecting successful business man could father such imbeciles, even though they too were quite successful in their own right.

So... no Tree.... Claude was not a second too late. He was a lifetime of goodness, kindness, love, laughter, friendships, financial, and emotional success too late.
He had all the "right stuff" and dismissed it, acting like he himself was not a blessed, and gifted man. That he himself, without any outside giftings, or resources, succeeded, and no one else was "to blame" for his lot in life.

He wasn't one second too late. He had 102 years, at 86,400 seconds/day, 365.25 days/year.
If he died, at the last second, of his 102 year life, one second prior to his 103rd birthday, he'd have lived

3,218,875,200 seconds.
That's 3.2 BILLION seconds.
three billion, two hundred eighteen million, eight hundred seventy five thousand, two hundred seconds.

So... the man was not lacking in seconds here. He didn't wait one second too long. He blew past the same limit we all have.....
We're all given a life to live. Some people don't have it as good as Claude had it.


Here's a report about people in North Korea, whose entire lives are decimated by a government who is terrified to let others live as free men and women. So, they cage those who don't follow the party line.

So....
poor, pitiful, old Claude. He got cheated, and was sent to hell because he waited to his 3,218,875,201st second.....

As it's written.....
It's appointed to man, once to die, and afterwards to judgment.

It's the same for every single human being on earth. From Adam, down to the last one at some point in some as yet undefined future.

What will you do?
Looks to me like Claude had a great life. It's a pity he didn't want to listen to his children. Who else could love him more?
You're confusing Vernon Claude Peppers with me, Steve

Yes, I choose to believe MYSELF over God
Yes, I choose to place my trust in MY own mind and ideas

My ego {as fed by logic and reason} is such that I am certain that I know better than God where matters of good and evil are concerned
{Your's too, truth, that you suppress, be told}

Not true, though, of good old Vernon Claude Peppers!
Vernon Claude Peppers didn't choose himself over God - he simply failed to ascertain that there is an alternative choice to himself

V.C. Peppers didn't believe in God anymore than you believe in Santa Claus, Steve

More importantly, V.C. Peppers was no more capable of making himself believe in Jesus Christ than you are capable of forcing yourself to believe in the Easter Bunny!

Your words, Steve:
"According to Romans 1, God has given everyone the same amount of information, so that even if they don't hear the gospel. they have enough to know that God is real, regardless of the choices they make.
According to Psalm 19, we all have the ability to perceive the cosmos, and the world around us"

Same amount of information?
How so, Steve?
You contradict yourself in the space of the same single sentence!
"God has GIVEN everyone the SAME AMOUNT of information, so that even if they DON'T HEAR the gospel......"
How exactly have we each been given the same amount of information when only some of us have been given the gospel???

We all have the ability to perceive the cosmos and the world around us?
Really, Steve??

Babies?
Young children?
Mentally retarded?

Even if it were true that we all have the ability to perceive the cosmos and the world around us - explain to me how it is that you think we would all be perceiving a god, much less the very same God that you perceive?

Doesn't the fact that Vernon Claude Peppers perceived no god prove that your biblical claim is crap?
Doesn't the fact that millions and millions of people have perceived a different god prove that your biblical claim is crap?


Furthermore, if God is willing to wait 3,218,875,200 seconds for somebody that He loves then why isn't He willing to wait 3,218,875,201 seconds?

What are you saying, Steve?
A single second is somehow more powerful than love?
A single second is somehow more powerful than God, Himself?

This is just another example of why OUR morality is superior to God's, Steve
Neither of us would ever dream of eternally torturing someone we love over a matter of being just a single second too late


PS
This is truly astounding, Steve!!

After years of misrepresenting what atheists on this board have said to you - you have now taken to lying about individuals that have never so much as typed a single word on this board

I'll have you know that Vera, Chuck, and Dave all came to Christ and Vernon Claude DID NOT turn his back on them!!!

Vernon Claude Peppers was an exemplary father who would never, ever have rejected any of his children - imbeciles or not

You owe the entire Peppers family an apology, Steve!!!

PS
PS
Who could love him more?
God!

God could have loved him 'more' enough so as to have given him one more second!!
Guess it's just not in HIM, though - huh, Steve?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
You're confusing Vernon Claude Peppers with me, Steve

Yes, I choose to believe MYSELF over God
Yes, I choose to place my trust in MY own mind and ideas

My ego {as fed by logic and reason} is such that I am certain that I know better than God where matters of good and evil are concerned
{Your's too, truth, that you suppress, be told}

Not true, though, of good old Vernon Claude Peppers!
Vernon Claude Peppers didn't choose himself over God - he simply failed to ascertain that there is an alternative choice to himself

V.C. Peppers didn't believe in God anymore than you believe in Santa Claus, Steve

More importantly, V.C. Peppers was no more capable of making himself believe in Jesus Christ than you are capable of forcing yourself to believe in the Easter Bunny!

Your words, Steve:
"According to Romans 1, God has given everyone the same amount of information, so that even if they don't hear the gospel. they have enough to know that God is real, regardless of the choices they make.
According to Psalm 19, we all have the ability to perceive the cosmos, and the world around us"

Same amount of information?
How so, Steve?
You contradict yourself in the space of the same single sentence!
"God has GIVEN everyone the SAME AMOUNT of information, so that even if they DON'T HEAR the gospel......"
How exactly have we each been given the same amount of information when only some of us have been given the gospel???

We all have the ability to perceive the cosmos and the world around us?
Really, Steve??

Babies?
Young children?
Mentally retarded?

Even if it were true that we all have the ability to perceive the cosmos and the world around us - explain to me how it is that you think we would all be perceiving a god, much less the very same God that you perceive?

Doesn't the fact that Vernon Claude Peppers perceived no god prove that your biblical claim is crap?
Doesn't the fact that millions and millions of people have perceived a different god prove that your biblical claim is crap?


Furthermore, if God is willing to wait 3,218,875,200 seconds for somebody that He loves then why isn't He willing to wait 3,218,875,201 seconds?

What are you saying, Steve?
A single second is somehow more powerful than love?
A single second is somehow more powerful than God, Himself?

This is just another example of why OUR morality is superior to God's, Steve
Neither of us would ever dream of eternally torturing someone we love over a matter of being just a single second too late


PS
This is truly astounding, Steve!!

After years of misrepresenting what atheists on this board have said to you - you have now taken to lying about individuals that have never so much as typed a single word on this board

I'll have you know that Vera, Chuck, and Dave all came to Christ and Vernon Claude DID NOT turn his back on them!!!

Vernon Claude Peppers was an exemplary father who would never, ever have rejected any of his children - imbeciles or not

You owe the entire Peppers family an apology, Steve!!!

PS
PS
Who could love him more?
God!

God could have loved him 'more' enough so as to have given him one more second!!
Guess it's just not in HIM, though - huh, Steve?
We all have been given the same exact opportunity.

Everyone is given 86,400 seconds every single day.

So, if 86,400 seconds isn't enough for you, then it seems to me that you have a serious problem with time and not God.
 

Whatsisface

Active member
We all have been given the same exact opportunity.

Everyone is given 86,400 seconds every single day.

So, if 86,400 seconds isn't enough for you, then it seems to me that you have a serious problem with time and not God.
Steve has me on ignore, which is fine because I don't have to deal with his inane posts. But I have to say, the above is contentless.
 

treeplanter

Active member
We all have been given the same exact opportunity.

Everyone is given 86,400 seconds every single day.

So, if 86,400 seconds isn't enough for you, then it seems to me that you have a serious problem with time and not God.
Not true, Steve!

YOUR words:
"According to Romans 1, God has given everyone the same amount of information, so that even if they don't hear the gospel. they have enough to know that God is real, regardless of the choices they make"

You just made clear that some people are given the gospel and some are not!
How, then, can you say that we have all been given the same amount of information??



Fine, Steve, let's just say for the sake of the argument that the onus is on us to 'manage our time' and find God within the God allotted amount of time - that said, you have still failed to explain why God should have set a time limit in the 1st place!

What I want to know is how you justify calling God good and just when He chooses to set a time limit and will punish eternally within a single second of exceeding His time limit?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Not true, Steve!

YOUR words:
"According to Romans 1, God has given everyone the same amount of information, so that even if they don't hear the gospel. they have enough to know that God is real, regardless of the choices they make"

You just made clear that some people are given the gospel and some are not!
How, then, can you say that we have all been given the same amount of information??



Fine, Steve, let's just say for the sake of the argument that the onus is on us to 'manage our time' and find God within the God allotted amount of time - that said, you have still failed to explain why God should have set a time limit in the 1st place!

What I want to know is how you justify calling God good and just when He chooses to set a time limit and will punish eternally within a single second of exceeding His time limit?
And?
Do you actually think that you are going to have an excuse to avoid judgment on your sin?

Do you actually think that you are going to be justified with God apart from Jesus?
 

treeplanter

Active member
And?
Do you actually think that you are going to have an excuse to avoid judgment on your sin?

Do you actually think that you are going to be justified with God apart from Jesus?
No, Steve - I don't think that I am going to have an excuse to avoid His judgement

Nor do I think that I am going to be justified with God apart from Jesus

I know full well who and what God is!

God is an immoral monster who will be subjecting me to Hell for the 'crime' of sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, holding to a standard of perceived right from wrong that differs from His

Worse yet, God is an immoral monster who burns and tortures Vernon Claude Peppers for the 'crime' of not being able to believe in something without sufficient evidence



Please try reading for comprehension, Steve!

What I want to know from you is why you call God good and loving even though He consigns the objects of His love to Hell on the basis of their recognizing Him one second too late?

I happen to know for an absolute fact that you would never, ever throw your loved one into a fire because he/she doesn't believe that you know best so why do you suppress your better judgement and claim that God is good and just when He tosses into Hell those that don't believe that He knows best?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
No, Steve - I don't think that I am going to have an excuse to avoid His judgement

Nor do I think that I am going to be justified with God apart from Jesus
then why are you going through this rigamarole of yours?
Do you comprehend that you're literally committing suicide by this routine of yours?
And what's worse is that you're not only dragging it out, you're adding wrath to your damnation, making it worse for yourself in eternity. It's already going to be bad enough, being separated from God, but this rage you have against Him....... it's like pouring salt, acid, and drinking poison all together--- forever.


I know full well who and what God is!
I wish you did. Your description is of the devil.

God is an immoral monster who will be subjecting me to Hell for the 'crime' of sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, holding to a standard of perceived right from wrong that differs from His

Worse yet, God is an immoral monster who burns and tortures Vernon Claude Peppers for the 'crime' of not being able to believe in something without sufficient evidence
Your description is of the devil.
Claude refused to come to God, through Jesus Christ, to obtain the evidence God stated he'd give everyone who'd come to him.
God tells us--- He saves to the uttermost, ALL who come to him through Jesus Christ.
I.e., he'll give us the evidence of himself as real and knowable, when we come to him, through Jesus Christ.
Jesus further stated that if we keep his teachings, we will demonstrate that we love him, and as a result, we will be loved by God, and they will come and make their home with us.


Please try reading for comprehension, Steve!
I'm reading just fine Tree!
You seek to destroy yourself because you believe false things about God, and are therefore drinking the poison, believing you'll kill God. It doesn't work that way.
You're just giving the devil what he wants, and he's laughing his derriere off at your stupidity.


What I want to know from you is why you call God good and loving even though He consigns the objects of His love to Hell on the basis of their recognizing Him one second too late?
Because I believe the True and Living God, and his warnings, before my 2.6+/- billion seconds are used up.
That you actually think this is a game you're going to win just shows your ego's desperation to win no matter the cost. Which in this case is you, and your eternal soul.



I happen to know for an absolute fact that you would never, ever throw your loved one into a fire because he/she doesn't believe that you know best so why do you suppress your better judgement and claim that God is good and just when He tosses into Hell those that don't believe that He knows best?
And yet you're throwing yourself, and all who believe your rants into the fires of hell, because you believe you know better.
 

treeplanter

Active member
then why are you going through this rigamarole of yours?
Do you comprehend that you're literally committing suicide by this routine of yours?
And what's worse is that you're not only dragging it out, you're adding wrath to your damnation, making it worse for yourself in eternity. It's already going to be bad enough, being separated from God, but this rage you have against Him....... it's like pouring salt, acid, and drinking poison all together--- forever.



I wish you did. Your description is of the devil.


Your description is of the devil.
Claude refused to come to God, through Jesus Christ, to obtain the evidence God stated he'd give everyone who'd come to him.
God tells us--- He saves to the uttermost, ALL who come to him through Jesus Christ.
I.e., he'll give us the evidence of himself as real and knowable, when we come to him, through Jesus Christ.
Jesus further stated that if we keep his teachings, we will demonstrate that we love him, and as a result, we will be loved by God, and they will come and make their home with us.



I'm reading just fine Tree!
You seek to destroy yourself because you believe false things about God, and are therefore drinking the poison, believing you'll kill God. It doesn't work that way.
You're just giving the devil what he wants, and he's laughing his derriere off at your stupidity.



Because I believe the True and Living God, and his warnings, before my 2.6+/- billion seconds are used up.
That you actually think this is a game you're going to win just shows your ego's desperation to win no matter the cost. Which in this case is you, and your eternal soul.




And yet you're throwing yourself, and all who believe your rants into the fires of hell, because you believe you know better.
Rigamarole?
{Sic}

My position is that God, as described in scripture, is an immoral monster and, on this basis, I want no part of Him

How exactly does this suffice as a lengthy and complicated procedure, Steve?

My position is that Christianity, as held by the adherent, is a harmful belief system and, on this basis, I desire it's eradication

How exactly does this suffice as a long, rambling story or statement?

We have been created at enmity with God - compelled from birth, due our fallen natures, to inevitably sin at least once and therefore warrant our collective fate of eternal damnation UNLESS we stop thinking for ourselves and, in a spirit of genuine repentance, substitute God's judgement for our own through the conscious and purposeful movement of accepting Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior

These actions are NOT attributable, throughout scripture, to The Devil, Steve
Per scripture, these are the actions of God, Himself!

This IS evil, Steve

It is evil to create man destined for Hell

It is evil to require that an innocent man die a horrific death before deigning to forgive every other man for being the way that they were created to be

It is evil to require that a man must stop thinking for himself in order to take advantage of the forgiveness on offer for being the way that we were created to be

God imposed a problem upon us
Then He offered a solution to the problem that He caused
Then He demands that we praise Him for it

What I am describing is God, not The Devil
And what I am describing is, in fact, evil per the moral standard as held by most every man on earth - yourself included
{it's just unfortunate that you choose to suppress your own better judgement}

If I set your house on fire {imposition of a problem}
and then promised to put the fire out {offering of a solution}
in exchange for you nominating me for the "Neighbor of the Year" Award {a demand for praise}
you would, rightly so, consider me evil

What God has done is no different, Steve

Now, back to Vernon Claude Peppers...
V.C. Peppers did NOT refuse God
I, Treeplanter, refuse and reject God, but V.C. Peppers did no such thing

Vernon Claude Peppers no more refused God than you, Steve, have refused Puff the Magic Dragon
Can you not understand that Jesus Christ meant no more to V.C. Peppers than Puff does to you?

Can you not understand that Peppers was no more capable of coming to God in order to "obtain evidence" of Heaven than you are capable of coming to Puff the Magic Dragon in order to obtain evidence of Honalee?

Puff makes it clear that if you bring him "strings and sealing wax and other fancy stuff" and if you love him like Little Jackie Paper does - then he, Puff, will become real

Go on, Steve - do what Puff the Magic Dragon says to do and the dragon will be revealed to you!

Oh, what's that you say, Steve?
You cannot will yourself to believe in something that, on the surface, seems to you as flatly absurd?
Huh, well neither could Vernon Claude Peppers!!


Here, again, is my question to you:
What I want to know from you is why you call God good and loving even though He consigns the objects of His love to Hell on the basis of their recognizing Him one second too late?

Here is the 'answer' that you provided:

"Because I believe the True and Living God, and his warnings, before my 2.6+/- billion seconds are used up.
That you actually think this is a game you're going to win just shows your ego's desperation to win no matter the cost. Which in this case is you, and your eternal soul"

This is not an answer, Steve!!!
Yeah, we all know that you believe God and His warnings
And we know that God gives us 2.6+/- billion seconds in which to come to Him

However, the question is, why doesn't God give us that one extra second when we are standing before Him, having died, and finally knowing for absolute certain that He is, in fact, real?
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
Rigamarole?
{Sic}
good. Glad you kept the spelling I used.
Yes.... rigamarole.


Come on Tree.... get with the program.
My position is that God, as described in scripture, is an immoral monster and, on this basis, I want no part of Him
Then you shall have no part with YHVH.
You'll get to spend your eternity in a place not designed for you, or with you in mind.
It's sad, painful state to be.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.​

This is the worst possible suicide a human being could choose for themselves. And yet, here you are, doing exactly that.
If God was the monster you believe him to be, he never would've warned us of the impending judgment due our sin, and the misery of the lake of fire.
The very fact that he's spent 3500 years doing exactly that, and giving us the time, and opportunity to get free from our sin, and flee the coming judgment--- I'd say that makes him Good!



How exactly does this suffice as a lengthy and complicated procedure, Steve?

My position is that Christianity, as held by the adherent, is a harmful belief system and, on this basis, I desire it's eradication

How exactly does this suffice as a long, rambling story or statement?

We have been created at enmity with God - compelled from birth, due our fallen natures, to inevitably sin at least once and therefore warrant our collective fate of eternal damnation UNLESS we stop thinking for ourselves and, in a spirit of genuine repentance, substitute God's judgement for our own through the conscious and purposeful movement of accepting Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior

These actions are NOT attributable, throughout scripture, to The Devil, Steve
Per scripture, these are the actions of God, Himself!

This IS evil, Steve

It is evil to create man destined for Hell

It is evil to require that an innocent man die a horrific death before deigning to forgive every other man for being the way that they were created to be

It is evil to require that a man must stop thinking for himself in order to take advantage of the forgiveness on offer for being the way that we were created to be

God imposed a problem upon us
Then He offered a solution to the problem that He caused
Then He demands that we praise Him for it

What I am describing is God, not The Devil
And what I am describing is, in fact, evil per the moral standard as held by most every man on earth - yourself included
{it's just unfortunate that you choose to suppress your own better judgement}

If I set your house on fire {imposition of a problem}
and then promised to put the fire out {offering of a solution}
in exchange for you nominating me for the "Neighbor of the Year" Award {a demand for praise}
you would, rightly so, consider me evil

What God has done is no different, Steve

Now, back to Vernon Claude Peppers...
V.C. Peppers did NOT refuse God
I, Treeplanter, refuse and reject God, but V.C. Peppers did no such thing

Vernon Claude Peppers no more refused God than you, Steve, have refused Puff the Magic Dragon
Can you not understand that Jesus Christ meant no more to V.C. Peppers than Puff does to you?

Can you not understand that Peppers was no more capable of coming to God in order to "obtain evidence" of Heaven than you are capable of coming to Puff the Magic Dragon in order to obtain evidence of Honalee?

Puff makes it clear that if you bring him "strings and sealing wax and other fancy stuff" and if you love him like Little Jackie Paper does - then he, Puff, will become real

Go on, Steve - do what Puff the Magic Dragon says to do and the dragon will be revealed to you!

Oh, what's that you say, Steve?
You cannot will yourself to believe in something that, on the surface, seems to you as flatly absurd?
Huh, well neither could Vernon Claude Peppers!!


Here, again, is my question to you:


Here is the 'answer' that you provided:

"Because I believe the True and Living God, and his warnings, before my 2.6+/- billion seconds are used up.
That you actually think this is a game you're going to win just shows your ego's desperation to win no matter the cost. Which in this case is you, and your eternal soul"

This is not an answer, Steve!!!
Yeah, we all know that you believe God and His warnings
And we know that God gives us 2.6+/- billion seconds in which to come to Him

However, the question is, why doesn't God give us that one extra second when we are standing before Him, having died, and finally knowing for absolute certain that He is, in fact, real?

It's your eternity. You'll have 3.15576 x 10^10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

seconds to live with your choice of where you spend your eternity.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
However, the question is, why doesn't God give us that one extra second when we are standing before Him, having died, and finally knowing for absolute certain that He is, in fact, real?
And another 3.15576 x 10^ 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seconds to consider the first grouping of infinite seconds. Although, those would be trillions of years instead of seconds.....
It's your eternity.
Where would you prefer to spend them?
In a paradise, with joy without end, or with misery that never ends?

We who follow Jesus....
we prefer the joy without end.

You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

Jesus died to save you from your sin, and to free you from the judgment due sin, and in the end, free you from sin itself.
 

treeplanter

Active member
good. Glad you kept the spelling I used.
Yes.... rigamarole.


Come on Tree.... get with the program.

Then you shall have no part with YHVH.
You'll get to spend your eternity in a place not designed for you, or with you in mind.
It's sad, painful state to be.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.​

This is the worst possible suicide a human being could choose for themselves. And yet, here you are, doing exactly that.
If God was the monster you believe him to be, he never would've warned us of the impending judgment due our sin, and the misery of the lake of fire.
The very fact that he's spent 3500 years doing exactly that, and giving us the time, and opportunity to get free from our sin, and flee the coming judgment--- I'd say that makes him Good!





It's your eternity. You'll have 3.15576 x 10^10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

seconds to live with your choice of where you spend your eternity.
Hello?
Steve?
Anybody home?

Yeah, that God has spent 3500 years warning us of impending judgement and misery is all well and good UNTIL one realizes that it is God, Himself, who has chosen to consciously, purposefully, and needlessly inflict this judgement and misery upon us!

PS
You forgot to answer the question posed in the OP

Why doesn't God give us that one extra second when we are standing before Him, having died, and finally knowing for absolute certain that He is, in fact, real?
 

5wize

Well-known member
So, you think God's gift of his Son to take our place in judgment is a game?
Yes I do, given that He could have chosen any way to take our penance other than human sacrifice and there is only a "One penalty fits all" judgement rack. The human justice system surpassed Hebrew Mythology ages and ages ago. Get with the program. Catch up! It's a complete joke Steve.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Yes I do, given that He could have chosen any way to take our penance other than human sacrifice and there is only a "One penalty fits all" judgement rack. The human justice system surpassed Hebrew Mythology ages and ages ago. Get with the program. Catch up! It's a complete joke Steve.
Then I suppose that you'll find out the hard way.
 
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