Wage theft

HillsboroMom

Active member
Shall we ban corporations?
Corporations aren't inherently evil. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of corporations that are not corrupt, do not take advantage of their employees or consumers, and generally do a good job providing a product or service for a fair price.

We simply need to put laws in place that protect individuals from evil practices.

If only the people who made the laws weren't allowed to get kick-backs from corporations.....


Can you think of anything you own that is not created by a corporation?
Yes.

I own several articles of clothing that are hand-made.

I own several other things -- furniture, art, etc. -- that I purchased from non-corporate craftspeople.

Sure, a lot of the things I own were created by corporations. I don't know any way to get a car other than through a corporation, for example.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Is there anyone here capable of addressing the OP, with out the same regurgitated capitalist slogans? Its like they are programmed bots.lol
I had nothing to say to the OP because (a) I was aware of the points it made, and (b) I didn't have anything to say about it.

Responding to a few of the responses, though. Is that okay?
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
As a foreigner you probably do not know the structure of the American pension system. Most pension plans do invest in the market
What percent of Americans do you think have pensions?

I'd be surprised if it's higher than 30%. It sure as heck isn't 50%.

And even of those Americans who have pensions that are invested in the open market, how many have any control over HOW it is invested?

And even those who (a) have pension plans and (b) have control over how they are invested, how many own enough stock to have ANY say in what happens in those corporations? Do you even know how much stock you have to own before that happens? Go ahead. Venture a guess.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
I agree with you on a lot of this.

Here's one that really ticks me off:

As an employer, I have the right to pay my employees using pre-paid bank cards.

I can load their pay onto a card, which they then have to pay a fee whenever they use, even to download their wages.

And I can get a kick-back from the bank for using these cards.

And no one sees a problem with this?!?!?!?

You say, "Fine, just don't work for a company that uses that system."

But if someone is poor, you scoff at them and tell them to get a job.

So they try to get a job, but all of the jobs they can get have crazy rules like this, and end up keeping them in poverty.

So yeah, I have a problem with a country that allows these rules.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
What percent of Americans do you think have pensions?

I'd be surprised if it's higher than 30%. It sure as heck isn't 50%.

And even of those Americans who have pensions that are invested in the open market, how many have any control over HOW it is invested?

And even those who (a) have pension plans and (b) have control over how they are invested, how many own enough stock to have ANY say in what happens in those corporations? Do you even know how much stock you have to own before that happens? Go ahead. Venture a guess.
What are you ranting about? "Pensions" went away decades ago. The only people with pensions these days are those who work in unions.

What's your retirement plan? Cash in the mattress? LMBO. I understand you're a foreigner so maybe you don't look no we it but the social security system in America is a Ponzi scheme. If I had every dollar that has been stolen from me over the decades I've been working to fund the scheme, I promise you I'd be retired right now.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
I agree with you on a lot of this.

Here's one that really ticks me off:

As an employer, I have the right to pay my employees using pre-paid bank cards.

I can load their pay onto a card, which they then have to pay a fee whenever they use, even to download their wages.

And I can get a kick-back from the bank for using these cards.

And no one sees a problem with this?!?!?!?

You say, "Fine, just don't work for a company that uses that system."

But if someone is poor, you scoff at them and tell them to get a job.

So they try to get a job, but all of the jobs they can get have crazy rules like this, and end up keeping them in poverty.

So yeah, I have a problem with a country that allows these rules.
What country are you from?
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
What percent of Americans do you think have pensions?

I'd be surprised if it's higher than 30%. It sure as heck isn't 50%.

And even of those Americans who have pensions that are invested in the open market, how many have any control over HOW it is invested?

And even those who (a) have pension plans and (b) have control over how they are invested, how many own enough stock to have ANY say in what happens in those corporations? Do you even know how much stock you have to own before that happens? Go ahead. Venture a guess.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Very interesting. Gallup is usually reputable, so I would trust their numbers. Of course, if you read the fine print, that is 56% of ADULT Americans, so it would be a smaller percent of all Americans. (18+ represents about 75% of all Americans, so we're at about 41% of all Americans who own stock. But yes, it is higher than I would have expected.

However, this doesn't speak to any of the questions I actually asked.

Since I've seen your action in this and other boards, I get that you might not have understood the questions. You (and others here) tend to skim past what people write, respond what you think, and don't really bother to read what they are actually saying. It is a discredit to yourself and to Christians in general.

So I'll ask again, more carefully, so you won't miss the actual questions I'm asking.
  1. What percent of Americans do you think HAVE PENSIONS?
  2. How many [Americans, that is] own enough stock to have ANY say in what happens in those corporations?
  3. Do you even know how much stock you have to own before that happens [that is, a "controlling interest" in a corporation]?
And, I didn't ask this, but the next question would be, how many Americans have that much stock in ANY corporation?

I'll wait here.
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
Very interesting. Gallup is usually reputable, so I would trust their numbers. Of course, if you read the fine print, that is 56% of ADULT Americans, so it would be a smaller percent of all Americans. (18+ represents about 75% of all Americans, so we're at about 41% of all Americans who own stock. But yes, it is higher than I would have expected.

However, this doesn't speak to any of the questions I actually asked.

Since I've seen your action in this and other boards, I get that you might not have understood the questions. You (and others here) tend to skim past what people write, respond what you think, and don't really bother to read what they are actually saying. It is a discredit to yourself and to Christians in general.

So I'll ask again, more carefully, so you won't miss the actual questions I'm asking.
  1. What percent of Americans do you think HAVE PENSIONS?
  2. How many [Americans, that is] own enough stock to have ANY say in what happens in those corporations?
  3. Do you even know how much stock you have to own before that happens [that is, a "controlling interest" in a corporation]?
And, I didn't ask this, but the next question would be, how many Americans have that much stock in ANY corporation?

I'll wait here.
1. if anyone works for a corporation of any size they have a pension program, which nor buys stocks. People can have personal 401s and purchase either mutual funds which purchase stocks, or purchase individual stocks. Another method is having shares in a coop. The power company that we get our power from is customer owned, so I have a few shares in it.

2. The only way for individual investors to have a say is to group together for an issue.

3. Find out how many shares the company has sold and get control of 50.1%
 

Truther

Well-known member
Corporations aren't inherently evil. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of corporations that are not corrupt, do not take advantage of their employees or consumers, and generally do a good job providing a product or service for a fair price.

We simply need to put laws in place that protect individuals from evil practices.

If only the people who made the laws weren't allowed to get kick-backs from corporations.....



Yes.

I own several articles of clothing that are hand-made.

I own several other things -- furniture, art, etc. -- that I purchased from non-corporate craftspeople.

Sure, a lot of the things I own were created by corporations. I don't know any way to get a car other than through a corporation, for example.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
Bottom line...get rid of the rich and the middle class vanishes with them.

Hello Venezuela, USA.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
1. if anyone works for a corporation of any size they have a pension program, which nor buys stocks.
That is factually incorrect.

First of all, I suspect you don't even know what "corporation" means. I suspect you mean "company," which includes different types of corporations as well as other types of companies -- privately-owned businesses, partnerships, etc. But let's just go with "corporation," just for kicks and grins.

Not all corporations offer pensions.

ERISA stipulates that IF a company offers a pension plan to any of its employees, then it is required to offer that same pension to all of its employees. However, there is literally NO law stating that a corporation is required to offer a pension plan at all. Not in ERISA, not in any federal code.

In my state of Oregon, there is a law that any employer with more than 5 FTEs (that means five full-time employees, or however many part-time employees would be the equivalent, in hours worked, of 5 full-time employees) must either offer a pension plan to its employees OR enable its employees to participate in a state-run savings plan. The state-run savings plan is not a stock-based investment account, it's just a savings account.

Do you have any idea how many corporations have fewer than 5 FTEs?

According to https://www.naics.com/business-lists/counts-by-company-size/, over 70% of businesses in the US have fewer than 5 employees. Almost 90% have fewer than 50 employees.

Now, as I said, there is no federal law that says ANY size company has to offer pension benefits. However, other benefits (such as health care and other worker protections) kick in at 50 employees. But that's only about 10% of US companies.

That said, yes, just slightly over 1/2 of Americans who work for someone else work for a "large company" (500 or more employees). That means 1/2 of Americans who work for someone else work for SMALL companies (fewer than 500 employees). And that doesn't include all the people who DON'T work for companies at all -- those who are self-employed, and those who are unemployed. Suffice it to say a majority of Americans are NOT covered by large corporate benefits.

Not that that has anything to do with the subject, but you don't seem to be aware how few people have any benefits at all.

Also, I don't know what "which nor buys stock" means. Can you even English, dude?


People can have personal 401s and purchase either mutual funds which purchase stocks, or purchase individual stocks. Another method is having shares in a coop. The power company that we get our power from is customer owned, so I have a few shares in it.
Oh, good grief.

Sure, anyone can open a personal 401(k), if they are self-employed and have over $5k to invest, plus several hundreds per year in investment fees. (I'm working on one right now that's about $300/year. You can probably find some with lower fees, but the investment options probably aren't as good as the fees go down.)

And if you know people who have that kind of money to invest, then congrats, you are officially privileged. Millions of Americans would never be able to scrap together that kind of money without going homeless. Or starving. Or both.

Also: Co-op. A customer-owned company is called a co-op. A coop is where chickens live.


2. The only way for individual investors to have a say is to group together for an issue.
That's not entirely true.

If a single investor owns more than 50% of a company's stock, that single investor has what is called a "controlling share" of the company.

But you are right -- if you don't own 50% by yourself, you can group together with other stockholders to form a block.

And do you know how many other investors you need in order to form a block that has any sway over a company?

In reality, if a small block manages to corner as little as 5-10% of a company's stock, the board will probably perk its ears up and listen. This has happened in certain cases.

Would you care to venture how much money 10% of any major corporation's shares would cost? Go ahead, give it a guess. You seem to be able to google. Once you've done that, see if you can figure out how many people you'd need to pool into a block.

And then think about how hard it is to get that many people to agree on who's the next president of the US, let alone something like corporate policy.

Let me know how you plan to make that work.

And then I've got a bridge to sell you.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Bottom line...get rid of the rich and the middle class vanishes with them.

Hello Venezuela, USA.
This has been proved false many times over. For example, in alphabetical order, and not exhaustive:
  • Australia
  • Canada
  • Denmark
  • Finland
  • France
  • German
  • Greenland
  • Iceland
  • Ireland
  • Italy
  • Netherlands
  • New Zealand
  • Norway
  • Sweden
  • United Kingdom
 

Truther

Well-known member
This has been proved false many times over. For example, in alphabetical order, and not exhaustive:
  • Australia
  • Canada
  • Denmark
  • Finland
  • France
  • German
  • Greenland
  • Iceland
  • Ireland
  • Italy
  • Netherlands
  • New Zealand
  • Norway
  • Sweden
  • United Kingdom
They have no middle class or corporations?
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
First of all, I suspect you don't even know what "corporation" means. I suspect you mean "company," which includes different types of corporations as well as other types of companies -- privately-owned businesses, partnerships, etc. But let's just go with "corporation," just for kicks and grins.

Staring out with nasty insults. Now I know what type of person you are.

Your attempt to analyze my knowledge is a failure.

Regarding my spelling mistake, are you going to complain to the police about my error?? Much ado about nothing.
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
This has been proved false many times over. For example, in alphabetical order, and not exhaustive:
  • Australia
  • Canada
  • Denmark
  • Finland
  • France
  • German
  • Greenland
  • Iceland
  • Ireland
  • Italy
  • Netherlands
  • New Zealand
  • Norway
  • Sweden
  • United Kingdom
So you are saying that no one in those countries can be classified as rich. And please give your definition of "rich"
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
They have no middle class or corporations?
They have both corporations and middle class.

You claimed that if you got rid of the super-rich, you would lose the middle class. The fact that all of those countries still have a robust middle class despite a tax rate that has basically abolished extreme wealth proves you wrong.

Psst: it helps if you remember what you posted before you respond. If you've forgotten, just click on the little up-arrow to see what you said before.

Or just don't post lies. That's always a good strategy.
 

glenlogie

Well-known member
That was not a "nasty insult." A lot of people don't know the difference between a "corporation" and a "company." If you've never taken business classes, you wouldn't know. That doesn't mean you're stupid, it just means you never took a course on those particular subjects before.

If you feel personally insulted by me pointing out some definitions for you, then you should probably just put me on ignore. I will be continuing to correct you whenever you use words incorrectly, and I almost never mean it as an insult. If you get insulted every time someone seeks to correct you, you will live your life in ignorance. That is, of course, your choice. It's not one I would personally make, but it is completely your choice to make.

Personally, I appreciate when someone corrects me on something when discussing a topic about which I am uneducated.



I'm not trying to analyze your knowledge. I don't really care why you know what you know. I'm simply filling in the gaps. It doesn't matter to me why you never took businesses courses in college. Maybe you never went to college. Maybe you went to college but studied biology. Or comparative literature. Or physics. Or maybe you're from another country that has different terms. I have no clue what the equivalent terms would be in England or Australia, for example. I have absolutely zero interest in WHY you don't know the difference. I was simply pointing out that there is a difference.

You attempt to analyze my motives is a failure.

But you could totally school ME. You could say, "Oh, I was using the British terms, because that's where I'm from." Then I would sit corrected, and would dutifully repent and beg your forgiveness for assuming you were talking about the US. How xenophobic of me, after all, to assume everything is about the US.


No, I'm not going to complain to the police. I am not a snowflake. That is called "projection," when you assume everyone around you is just like you.

I just don't know what you meant. I am going to ask YOU (not the police), again, what you meant. I have no clue what you might mean by "which nor buys stocks." The most obvious would be "which not buys stocks," but that doesn't make sense grammatically at all. "Which doesn't buy stock" has grammatical integrity, but still doesn't make any sense.

Did you mean, "which may buy stocks"? "which can buy stocks"? "which will buy stocks"? Any of those would make sense in the sentence, but I have no idea how you would get from any of those words to "nor". Which is why I said, "I don't know what "which nor buys stock" means."

Now, if you're saying you were just typing random letters and that's what came out, then yes. Much ado about nothing.

Perhaps I am over-thinking it. Perhaps you're not worth the time I've put into this already. If you change your mind, let me know.
You are totally clueless about my background and you assume way too much.

Are you telling me you never make typos?

Theses forums are open to registered posters, and as far as I know, you have zero authority here.
 
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