War in Heaven. When...

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Revelation 12:
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

1. Of all the angels, why was it Michael who fought Satan and threw him and his angels out of heaven?
2. Did this happen before creation week? If not, when did it happen, or when will it happen?
3. Does Satan and his angels still have access to God's throne?
4. In context what is chapter 12 and 13 about? That may help answer these questions.
 

Let's see what Scripture says.

The archangels were called princes, and were over a country. Michael is the Archangel over Israel. That is why he came to help Gabriel when he was fighting the prince of Persia. See, even the fallen angels have archangels over countries according to whether they be of God or not. So there are many archangels, but one per country I guess. I can't find what type of angel Gabriel was besides maybe God's messenger. Google says he was an archangel, but not from scripture. Unless it was from a book in the Apocrypha. Satan was a cherub, Ezekiel 28. I remember after Adam and Eve sinned, when they were thrown out of the Garden of Eden there were two cherubim guarding the gate.

Gabriel speaking in Daniel 10:
10 Suddenly, a hand touched me, which made me tremble on my knees and on the palms of my hands. 11 And he said to me, “O Daniel, man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you.” While he was speaking this word to me, I stood trembling.

12 Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come.

20 Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? And now I must return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I have gone forth, indeed the prince of Greece will come. 21 But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.
 
2. Did this happen before creation week? If not, when did it happen, or when will it happen?

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; 2 and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. 4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child. 5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days. 7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. 12 For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.” 13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. 17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her seed, those who keep the commands of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
 
The prefix "arch" indicates a ruler. This is found in words such as "monarchy" and "anarchy". Michael was an angel, like all of the other angels. God gave him authority over the other angels so in this was he became the archangel.
 
Revelation 12:
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

1. Of all the angels, why was it Michael who fought Satan and threw him and his angels out of heaven?
2. Did this happen before creation week? If not, when did it happen, or when will it happen?
3. Does Satan and his angels still have access to God's throne?
4. In context what is chapter 12 and 13 about? That may help answer these questions.
1. Irrelevent, God designed for him to be the one and that is all we need to know about that.

2 It happened after Christ died and rose again and it is only figurative and symbolism for the fact that now those who would attempt to accuse God's people have no voice in heaven against God's people because of the blood of Christ and his death on the cross. Read Romans 8.

3 Literally speaking, Satan has never had access to the throne of God, not as long as he has been Satan and fell from his first estate.


4 What do you think it is about? I know that far too many people think that they have the full picture of what the whole book is about but it is obvious to me from many of the things they believe that they really don't.



Let me ask you this, do you believe in the doctrine of a 7 year tribulation taken from the singular verse of Daniel 9:27 and a pre trib rapture of and great escape for the church and a literall one thousand year reign of Christ on this earth over Jews after Jesus returns in the clouds and taken from the singlular verses of Revelation 20?

Do you believe that the Jews returning to the land of Israel in 1948 was the promise of God, that God put them back in their land and if so, are you quite sure about that?

Do you call the Jews who are only Jews by ethnicity "God's Holy People" like many falsely do today, and do you think the prophecies that haven't been fulfilled yet are all about the ethnic nation of Israel and what will happen to them?

How about Paul's words in Romans chapters 9-11, who is Paul speaking of as Israel?
 
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Let me ask you this, do you believe in the doctrine of a 7 year tribulation taken from the singular verse of Daniel 9:27 and a pre trib rapture of and great escape for the church and a literall one thousand year reign of Christ on this earth over Jews after Jesus returns in the clouds and taken from the singlular verses of Revelation 20?
try six verses.

REV 20:
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Do you believe that the Jews returning to the land of Israel in 1948 was the promise of God, that God put them back in their land and if so, are you quite sure about that?
yes
Do you call the Jews who are only Jews by ethnicity "God's Holy People" like many falsely do today, and do you think the prophecies that haven't been fulfilled yet are all about the ethnic nation of Israel and what will happen to them?
yes
How about Paul's words in Romans chapters 9-11, who is Paul speaking of as Israel?
JEWS
 

So what, for the book of Revelation being Apocylptic in nature is full of hyperbol and symbolism and in 2 Peter 3:8-10 Peter reveals that one day in this age with God is like a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
Sorry but not according to God's own words from the prophecy of Moses in Deuteronomy 30:1-10.

For Moses clearly revealed that Israel would have to repent and turn back to God with all of their heart and if they had of returned to the land before Jesus and their rejection of him, I might not be able to say that it wasn't the promise.

However, the fact is, they returned to the land after Jesus came to them and they rejected him and while continuing to reject Jesus as their Messiah King and therefore they haven't repented and turned back to God with all of their hearts and therefore their being in the land isn't the promise of God and therefore it won't last either.

Not for those of them who haven't repented and won't either.

That would be like calling the unconvertred to of the nations God's people also and so this is total nonsense.
Yes but what Jews, for Paul in Romans 9:6-10 lays the foundation for all of what he says after it by first staated, "Not all who are descendants of Israel are Israel and neither becasue they are his descendants are the Abraham's children"

So right here Paul lays the foundation for who he is referring to as the true Israel of God all the way through the rest of chapters 9-11 and it isn't just everyone who is an ethnic Jew like you falsely believe.


For if not all are Israel who are the descendants of Israel and not all who are his descendant are Abraham's children, then not all of them can be called God's people either and Paul said this by inspiraton of the Holy Spirit.

So you need to rid yourself of your false doctrine about this and repent of it and believe and accept the truth about it, for you couldn't be further from the truth with it.

Oh and by the way, Paul in Romans 9-11 also reveals very clearly that now in Christ, the Gentiles are one people with the Jews as the NT Israel of God and there is no way around this either, for it is very clear when you read it and receive it in the proper context.
 
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So what, for the book of Revelation being Apocylptic in nature is full of hyperbol and symbolism and in 2 Peter 3:8-10 Peter reveals that one day in this age with God is like a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
Does this mean that Jesus will only reign for one day?

Oh and by the way, Paul in Romans 9-11 also reveals very clearly that now in Christ, the Gentiles are one people with the Jews as the NT Israel of God and there is no way around this either, for it is very clear when you read it and receive it in the proper context.

We are one people now but at some time in the future the church will be taken out of the world by the rapture and then God will resume working through Israel.

 
Does this mean that Jesus will only reign for one day?

As if you don't know what I meant by it!

I means that the 1000 years is not literal or speaking of something that happens after Jesus returns as in Matthew 24:29-32 but rather refers to this age in which with God one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
We are one people now but at some time in the future the church will be taken out of the world by the rapture and then God will resume working through Israel.

And Paul very clearly revealed when that day would be when the church would be taken out of the way in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and 51-58 and he very clearly revealed that it would be at the end after all other enemies of God are first destroyed and the end means the end also.

1 Corinthians 15:24 " Then comes the end when he shall deliver the Kingdom up unto God even the Father", now read the rest of the context in the passages I gave below.

Before you read these passsages that I posted below however, you need to remember that this whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 15 is about the future resurrection and Paul very clearly reveals only one also and it is called "those who belong to Christ at his coming".

Christ's resurrection was the first and is past tense and the first fruits that Paul also speaks of are those who came out of the graves at Christ's resurrection and were seen by many as per Matthew 27:51-53 and that is also past tense, so all that is left is those who belong to Christ at his coming and which includes the rapture.

Now pay close attention

1 Corinthnans 15: 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Now look at this passage above and notice verse 26 that I put in bold red.

Now then, God can resurrect those who have already died at any time he chooses to do it and he has also as per Matthew 27:5-58 but what would have to happen in order for those who are still alive and waiting for Christ's return in order for them to escape physical death?

Verse 26 above gives you the answer to this question, Christ would have to put death under his feet for them so that they would escape physical death and that is exactly what Paul is speaking of by the last enemy of death being destroyed under the feet of Christ.

However before this could happen, Gods enemy of sin in believers would also have to be cut off and put under the feet of Christ first because it is sin within them that is the reason why they must still died physically and that is what Paul is speaking of in the rest of this context in verse 51-58 below.

1 Corinthnans 15:
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”[i]
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.



Now look at the rest of this context above, and notice the bold orange, the change that Paul is speaking of here, is when Jesus puts the sin in believers under his feet and does away with it completely and when this happens, the last enemy of death can then also be removed because it is sin that causes physical death in the believer.

For although sin has already been dealt with in the believers heart or spirit or inner man, it still remains in their flesh and until it is put under the feet of Christ, the believer will still have to die physically and this is what Paul is revealing here in all that he is saying above.


Notice, all of God's other enemy's will be put under the feet of Jesus first and that is why Paul is saying that the end will be when phyical death will be put under Jesus' feet and this means no more mortality on this old planet also and this will happen when Jesus appears in the clouds of heaven as per Matthew 24:29-31.

It is only at this point that the rapture will take place following the resurrection of those who have already died Paul calls this the end when he Jesus will deliver the resurrected and raptured kingdom up unto God even the Father.

There is no way around this either, for this is what Paul very clearly revealed in 1 Corinthians 15.



Why do I need what another man says about this when I have the complete NT and OT and also the Holy Spirit who Jesus sent to guide me into all truth and he sent the Holy Spirit for every believer also whether they rely on the Spirit or not and therefore if they are truly saved, then they have no excuse for not relying on the Holy Spirit either.
 
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So what, for the book of Revelation being Apocylptic in nature is full of hyperbol and symbolism and in 2 Peter 3:8-10 Peter reveals that one day in this age with God is like a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
And who are you to determine that GOD cannot use whatever type of language that HE chooses to deliver an accurate and true message?
 
And who are you to determine that GOD cannot use whatever type of language that HE chooses to deliver an accurate and true message?
I agree and that is why he used symbolic language in Revelation and also the other apocalyptic writing and there are plenty of proofs right in Revelations that reveal that it is full of symbolic language also.

So then, "let him who has ears to hear from the Spirit understand the truth in Revelation and let all others remain blind, for that is exactly why God had it written this way also.
 
So what, for the book of Revelation being Apocylptic in nature is full of hyperbol and symbolism and in 2 Peter 3:8-10 Peter reveals that one day in this age with God is like a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Soooo, how do you explain the promise of reigning with Jesus for a thousand years and why would GOD make such a "metaphorical or symbolic promise?" We are going to spend eternity with Him, so what is a thousand years in light of that? If it is a metaphor, all it does is to create confusion. Who is the author of confusion?
 
Why do I need what another man says about this when I have the complete NT and OT and also the Holy Spirit who Jesus sent to guide me into all truth and he sent the Holy Spirit for every believer also whether they rely on the Spirit or not and therefore if they are truly saved, then they have no excuse for not relying on the Holy Spirit either.

You apparently don't understand the truth that God has revealed to us. God has appointed some to be teachers to help people like you.
 
You apparently don't understand the truth that God has revealed to us. God has appointed some to be teachers to help people like you.
I guess I should tell you then, that I sat in the mainstream churches who believe exactly or close to what you believe for better than thirty years and was taught the same exact errors that you are obviously being taught but because I was honest with God about it, he led me to the truth despite what I was being taught.

What you need to understand, is that teachers can definitely be a plus until a person is mature enough to get the truth of scriptures for himself by seeking and asking and waiting upon God in prayer about it and provided the teachers are teaching the truth themselves.

However, Paul very clearly revealed in his writings that the day was coming when the truth would no longer be taught and that the church would fall into apostasy from the truth and we are in that day today and have been for many years also and it is growing worse and worse also just like he said it would as well.

Nevertheless, God still used the teachers I sat under to reveal the truth to me but not by their teaching it but instead by his revealing the many contradictions in it from the scriptures themselves and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.


Let me ask you something, how many resurrections does the Bible speak of and how many are future tense?

For I had every Hal Lindsey book that was published at that time and he had four future resurrections to cover his errors about eschatology and this was the first warning sign from God unto me that I was being taught falsely about these things.

So God told me to let that subject go for a while until I matured enough in the other doctrines first and then when I was ready, he would begin to show me the truth about eschatology also and I did and now he is revealing them to me just like he said he would.
 
Soooo, how do you explain the promise of reigning with Jesus for a thousand years and why would GOD make such a "metaphorical or symbolic promise?" We are going to spend eternity with Him, so what is a thousand years in light of that? If it is a metaphor, all it does is to create confusion. Who is the author of confusion?
First of all, that word "reign" as "they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years" is not speaking of reigning or ruling over people here but rather it referring to the true believers reiging over the world the flesh and the Devil and meaning that they will not be moved or ruled by the world the flesh and the Devil but will be victorious over them instead.


Paul uses this word like this also in Romans 5:17 below.

Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

So we see then, that the word "reign" isn't always referring to ruling over people and it isn't in Revelation 20 either.


So let me give you an example of what I see in Revelation 20.


First off, the Devil isn't literally bound and especially not with a chain and which should be a big hint that John is not speaking literally here but rather symbolically.

So how was Satan bound then and for what purpose.

He was bound by what Jesus did on the cross and by the preaching of the gospel message about it and which means that as long as he remains bound, he cannot keep the nations from the truth of the gospel message, for that is what John says it is for also but he is not bound from keeping those in the dark who don't want to believe the gospel.

Now about the symbolic 1000 years, it is symbolically referring to this present age in which both the wicked and believers live and die and in which some believers will die as martyrs also.

2 Peter 3:8 for with God one day in this present age of his mercy and grace is as a thosuand years and a thousand years as one day.

It is not speaking of a human lifespan being extended to 1000 years either and which many falsely believe but it is only figurative for this present age.

Now about the thrones and they that sat on them, this is also symbolic for God's people who are victorious over the world the flesh and the Devil and actually Paul himself uses the same symbolism in Ephessians 2 and as seen below.


Ephesians 2: 2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and SEATED US WITH HIM in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,


You should also notice the association of the believers with Jesus and his resurrection here, for that is also being spoken of symbolically in Revelation 20, notice the words "made us alive and raised us up together with Christ".

For the believers resurrection doesn't start with his body but with his spirit man or inner man and that is what John is referring to also in Revelation 20 by those who take part in the first resurrection, for it is the resurrection of Christ in which the believer takes part and is made aive unto God.

Now then concerning the words in Rev 20: "judgment was given unto them" this is refering to the fact that through Christ Jesus, they have passed from death to life and therefore were judged and accepted by God through the person of Christ and not by their own merits or lack of them because of sin.


Now concerning the Martyrs mentioned in Rev 20, again, within this present age as symbolised by the 1000 years, we live and die and many will also die as Martyrs by the beast and John is seeing all of this.


When he says that these all came to life and reigned with Christ for the 1000 years, he is stepping back to the beginning of everything he already stated and giving a more detailed description of what he is being revealed here.


We come to life first through Christ and by taking part of his own resurrection which John is calling the first resurrection because it is, then we live and die in this age and of which we reign victoriously over the world the flesh and the Devil and then some or even many of us who are true believers will die as martyrs and some or many at the hands of the beast also.

Now in closing on this, John doesn't focus here on the bodily resurrection of the believers but only on that of the wicked and that is becasue for the believers, there resurrection begins not with their body but with their spirit man with Christ whose resurrection was the first and by which also thier resurrection into a glorious new body is also a sure thing .

However, with the wicked, the only resurrection that they will ever have is of the old body being brought back to life and then also destroyed in the lake of fire and this is why John didn't need to mention the bodily resurrection of the saints, because it a sure thing and will happen at the same time as that of the wicked.

This is what I see in Revelation 20 and when Jesus returns in the clouds and appears unto every eye, it will be all over and the end period just like Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15;22-26 also and as seen below.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
 
First of all, that word "reign" as "they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years" is not speaking of reigning or ruling over people here but rather it referring to the true believers reiging over the world the flesh and the Devil and meaning that they will not be moved or ruled by the world the flesh and the Devil but will be victorious over them instead.


Paul uses this word like this also in Romans 5:17 below.

Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

So we see then, that the word "reign" isn't always referring to ruling over people and it isn't in Revelation 20 either.


So let me give you an example of what I see in Revelation 20.


First off, the Devil isn't literally bound and especially not with a chain and which should be a big hint that John is not speaking literally here but rather symbolically.

So how was Satan bound then and for what purpose.

He was bound by what Jesus did on the cross and by the preaching of the gospel message about it and which means that as long as he remains bound, he cannot keep the nations from the truth of the gospel message, for that is what John says it is for also but he is not bound from keeping those in the dark who don't want to believe the gospel.

Now about the symbolic 1000 years, it is symbolically referring to this present age in which both the wicked and believers live and die and in which some believers will die as martyrs also.

2 Peter 3:8 for with God one day in this present age of his mercy and grace is as a thosuand years and a thousand years as one day.

It is not speaking of a human lifespan being extended to 1000 years either and which many falsely believe but it is only figurative for this present age.

Now about the thrones and they that sat on them, this is also symbolic for God's people who are victorious over the world the flesh and the Devil and actually Paul himself uses the same symbolism in Ephessians 2 and as seen below.


Ephesians 2: 2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and SEATED US WITH HIM in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,


You should also notice the association of the believers with Jesus and his resurrection here, for that is also being spoken of symbolically in Revelation 20, notice the words "made us alive and raised us up together with Christ".

For the believers resurrection doesn't start with his body but with his spirit man or inner man and that is what John is referring to also in Revelation 20 by those who take part in the first resurrection, for it is the resurrection of Christ in which the believer takes part and is made aive unto God.

Now then concerning the words in Rev 20: "judgment was given unto them" this is refering to the fact that through Christ Jesus, they have passed from death to life and therefore were judged and accepted by God through the person of Christ and not by their own merits or lack of them because of sin.


Now concerning the Martyrs mentioned in Rev 20, again, within this present age as symbolised by the 1000 years, we live and die and many will also die as Martyrs by the beast and John is seeing all of this.


When he says that these all came to life and reigned with Christ for the 1000 years, he is stepping back to the beginning of everything he already stated and giving a more detailed description of what he is being revealed here.


We come to life first through Christ and by taking part of his own resurrection which John is calling the first resurrection because it is, then we live and die in this age and of which we reign victoriously over the world the flesh and the Devil and then some or even many of us who are true believers will die as martyrs and some or many at the hands of the beast also.

Now in closing on this, John doesn't focus here on the bodily resurrection of the believers but only on that of the wicked and that is becasue for the believers, there resurrection begins not with their body but with their spirit man with Christ whose resurrection was the first and by which also thier resurrection into a glorious new body is also a sure thing .

However, with the wicked, the only resurrection that they will ever have is of the old body being brought back to life and then also destroyed in the lake of fire and this is why John didn't need to mention the bodily resurrection of the saints, because it a sure thing and will happen at the same time as that of the wicked.

This is what I see in Revelation 20 and when Jesus returns in the clouds and appears unto every eye, it will be all over and the end period just like Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15;22-26 also and as seen below.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
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View attachment 5048First of all, that word "reign" as "they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years" is not speaking of reigning or ruling over people here but rather it referring to the true believers reiging over the world the flesh and the Devil and meaning that they will not be moved or ruled by the world the flesh and the Devil but will be victorious over them instead.


Paul uses this word like this also in Romans 5:17 below.

Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

So we see then, that the word "reign" isn't always referring to ruling over people and it isn't in Revelation 20 either.


So let me give you an example of what I see in Revelation 20.


First off, the Devil isn't literally bound and especially not with a chain and which should be a big hint that John is not speaking literally here but rather symbolically.

So how was Satan bound then and for what purpose.

He was bound by what Jesus did on the cross and by the preaching of the gospel message about it and which means that as long as he remains bound, he cannot keep the nations from the truth of the gospel message, for that is what John says it is for also but he is not bound from keeping those in the dark who don't want to believe the gospel.

Now about the symbolic 1000 years, it is symbolically referring to this present age in which both the wicked and believers live and die and in which some believers will die as martyrs also.

2 Peter 3:8 for with God one day in this present age of his mercy and grace is as a thosuand years and a thousand years as one day.

It is not speaking of a human lifespan being extended to 1000 years either and which many falsely believe but it is only figurative for this present age.

Now about the thrones and they that sat on them, this is also symbolic for God's people who are victorious over the world the flesh and the Devil and actually Paul himself uses the same symbolism in Ephessians 2 and as seen below.


Ephesians 2: 2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and SEATED US WITH HIM in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,


You should also notice the association of the believers with Jesus and his resurrection here, for that is also being spoken of symbolically in Revelation 20, notice the words "made us alive and raised us up together with Christ".

For the believers resurrection doesn't start with his body but with his spirit man or inner man and that is what John is referring to also in Revelation 20 by those who take part in the first resurrection, for it is the resurrection of Christ in which the believer takes part and is made aive unto God.

Now then concerning the words in Rev 20: "judgment was given unto them" this is refering to the fact that through Christ Jesus, they have passed from death to life and therefore were judged and accepted by God through the person of Christ and not by their own merits or lack of them because of sin.


Now concerning the Martyrs mentioned in Rev 20, again, within this present age as symbolised by the 1000 years, we live and die and many will also die as Martyrs by the beast and John is seeing all of this.


When he says that these all came to life and reigned with Christ for the 1000 years, he is stepping back to the beginning of everything he already stated and giving a more detailed description of what he is being revealed here.


We come to life first through Christ and by taking part of his own resurrection which John is calling the first resurrection because it is, then we live and die in this age and of which we reign victoriously over the world the flesh and the Devil and then some or even many of us who are true believers will die as martyrs and some or many at the hands of the beast also.

Now in closing on this, John doesn't focus here on the bodily resurrection of the believers but only on that of the wicked and that is becasue for the believers, there resurrection begins not with their body but with their spirit man with Christ whose resurrection was the first and by which also thier resurrection into a glorious new body is also a sure thing .

However, with the wicked, the only resurrection that they will ever have is of the old body being brought back to life and then also destroyed in the lake of fire and this is why John didn't need to mention the bodily resurrection of the saints, because it a sure thing and will happen at the same time as that of the wicked.

This is what I see in Revelation 20 and when Jesus returns in the clouds and appears unto every eye, it will be all over and the end period just like Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15;22-26 also and as seen below.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
View attachment 5048
 
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