War in heaven.

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Jesus has always been righteous, before he came to earth, while on earth, and after earth--so why would he need to change a thing?
HE changed His "vocation" as it were, from head of Mary's household professional carpenter in Joseph's absence, to itinerant prophet/teacher.

That was a COMPLETE change of lifestyle for the next three or so years, until they murdered Him.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
Look what God had to PUT HIM THROUGH And God had no "Deal" with satan (satan might not have known that), he was just being USED to accomplish God's purpose in Job.
I don't see where yr view comes from -

"Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”

9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse[j] You to Your face!”

12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.
In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong.


Job seems blameless in this and God set conditions on what Satan could do to him from the get go
 
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keiw

Well-known member
HE changed His "vocation" as it were, from head of Mary's household professional carpenter in Joseph's absence, to itinerant prophet/teacher.

That was a COMPLETE change of lifestyle for the next three or so years, until they murdered Him.

He sure didnt have to repent to do that. What he did at baptism was set an example for all to follow.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
He sure didnt have to repent to do that. What he did at baptism was set an example for all to follow.
Changing direction is the MEANING of "repentance". It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "Sin". I'm going to "repent" of my 5-day work week, and go to a 3-day work week instead in August.
 

keiw

Well-known member
Changing direction is the MEANING of "repentance". It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "Sin". I'm going to "repent" of my 5-day work week, and go to a 3-day work week instead in August.

The biblical meaning of repentance is for sin.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Revelation 12:
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

1. Of all the angels, why was it Michael who fought Satan and threw him and his angels out of heaven?

Archangel.

2. Did this happen before creation week? If not, when did it happen, or when will it happen?

Verses 4-5 will give you a good idea of the time frame.

3. Does Satan and his angels still have access to God's throne?

Like Christians do?

4. In context what is chapter 12 and 13 about? That may help answer these questions.

Victory for the people of Israel. Their King conquered.
 

Oseas

Member
the Word of God tells us a great story IMO
all the early patriarchs back to Adam were prophets and wrote testaments
What is written in Genesis as a whole was revelead by GOD Himself specifically to Moses, it's content is a REVELATION that was given to Moses. My GOD is not a storyteller as you think He is, by the way, the Word is GOD, GOD is Spirit, do you understand? And they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in Truth. How could you tell GOD's Truth without His Spirit? What you said is not true.
 

Oseas

Member
You believe in your sadist God, i will serve my God of Love, justice, mercy.
In fact you know not GOD, you have only heard to speak of Him, but know not Him, and do not serve Him, the true GOD, but another pseudo-God. 2 Thessalonians 2:v.4
 

Oseas

Member
Actually Jesus DID repent - of his OLD LIFE and then with the Indwelling Holy SPirit, He walked out into His Ministry/Sacrifice. "Repentance" doesn't necessary have anything to do with "SIN". It's a change of direction.
You are wrong, your testimony of JESUS is false, it is fake. Well, JESUS said: For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, false witness (like your testimony above), blasphemies, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, these are the things which defile a MAN.

John 1:v.1-3
v. 1
- In the beginning -in JESUS- was the Word, and the Word was with GOD, and the Word was GOD.

As it is written, THE WORD WAS/ IS GOD, and is from everlasting to everlasting.
See, the Word is not only and only letters of Scriptures, the Word is GOD, yeah, the Word is GOD. Here there is a great mystery.

v.2
- The same -the Word-GOD-was in the beginning -was in JESUS- with GOD -i.e. in the bosom of GOD-the Word-Both are One -

v.3 - All things were made by Him -were made by JESUS-; and without Him -i.e. without JESUS- was not any thing made that was made.

Hebrews 1:v.1-3

1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also GOD made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Get ready
 

Oseas

Member
Changing direction is the MEANING of "repentance". It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "Sin". I'm going to "repent" of my 5-day work week, and go to a 3-day work week instead in August.
What you are saying is not true, it's the spirit of antichrist.. JESUS said: He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. You didn't drink of this living water, your testimony of JESUS is evil and misleading. The letter kills, it is used by the killer of souls.

JESUS said: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Matthew 23:v.15
 

Oseas

Member
I think the God of Israel has told us amazing stories/Story thru His chosen and Spirit inspired spokesmen

don't make my Bible boring bro
The God of Israel? Which one? the golden calf? Moloch? Baal? among many others? which they made to worship them.

Ah! there is also the god Remphan, Israel had taken up the tabernacle of Moloch and the
STAR of their god Remphan. Oh yes, by the way, Israel use the STAR of god Remphan in their FLAG until today. They rebelled AGAINST the HOUSE of DAVID since the dead of Solomon-1KINGS 12:v.16 to 19 - Check it -
and the STAR of god Remphan is in their FLAG until today, NOT THE STAR OF DAVID, the spirit that domine Israel is against JESUS until this current time, because JESUS is of the DAVID's HOUSE.

JESUS said to the Jews: John 5:v.43 to 47
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER (AN IMPOSTOR, A FALSE MESSIAH) shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Who is the false messiah according the words of JESUS-John 5:v.43? Paul Apostle also spoke of him, saying: 2 Thessalonians 2:v. 8 to 12:
8 Then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth (HIS WORD-JOHN 6:V.63), and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of SATAN with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that PERISH; because they received not the love of the TRUTH, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause GOD shall send them STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might BE DAMNED who believed not the Truth -believe not in JESUS- , but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

John, the Baptist, warned the Jews, saying:
O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the WRATH to come?-Matthew 3:v.7. And he said more this: The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the WRATH of GOD abideth on him.

Be careful and get ready, for the Eternal punishment already started, it will never END, it is for ever and ever, yeah, for everlasting.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
The God of Israel?
perhaps you don't believe Bible and are a Jew hating tool

John, the Baptist, Jesus warned the Jews
John is a Jew
Jesus is a Jew

"Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace."

"Concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sake but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all" Romans 11
 

keiw

Well-known member
In fact you know not GOD, you have only heard to speak of Him, but know not Him, and do not serve Him, the true GOD, but another pseudo-God. 2 Thessalonians 2:v.4

I have studied the true God for years, i know him as well as any can.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
You are wrong, your testimony of JESUS is false, it is fake. Well, JESUS said: For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, false witness (like your testimony above), blasphemies, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, these are the things which defile a MAN.
I'll try to deal with your Rejection (sob).
 

keiw

Well-known member
perhaps you don't believe Bible and are a Jew hating tool


John is a Jew
Jesus is a Jew

"Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace."

"Concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sake but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all" Romans 11

After Jesus told the Israelite leaders off-Matthew 23, at verse 38 he assures them they are cut off of being Gods chosen unless they do verse 39-- The renting of the banner in two signified that fact the moment Jesus died. They have outright refused for over 1950 years. Spiritual Israel is the Israel referred to in Revelation. Not literal Israel.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
After Jesus told the Israelite leaders off-Matthew 23, at verse 38 he assures them they are cut off of being Gods chosen unless they do verse 39-- The renting of the banner in two signified that fact the moment Jesus died. They have outright refused for over 1950 years. Spiritual Israel is the Israel referred to in Revelation. Not literal Israel.
Jewish leaders made a decision concerning Jesus' Messianic claim, and the Nation as an entity went along with that decision.
That was prophesied, so nothing surprising there.

Still, the earliest Church believers were Jews, and there is always some Jewish believers.

Israel is an elect nation among the Nations - that doesn't mean every individual from them is/will be a person of God,
but the national election remains as that nation/people have promises made to that must be fulfilled.

The New covenant was cut specifically with them, not the Church. Jeremiah 31

The way to God is the same for Jew and Gentile.
Most gentiles reject that Way as well.
 

keiw

Well-known member
Jewish leaders made a decision concerning Jesus' Messianic claim, and the Nation as an entity went along with that decision.
That was prophesied, so nothing surprising there.

Still, the earliest Church believers were Jews, and there is always some Jewish believers.

Israel is an elect nation among the Nations - that doesn't mean every individual from them is/will be a person of God,
but the national election remains as that nation/people have promises made to that must be fulfilled.

The New covenant was cut specifically with them, not the Church. Jeremiah 31

The way to God is the same for Jew and Gentile.
Most gentiles reject that Way as well.


That way is--obeying Jesus as the one sent forth from God-the Messiah--The Jewish religion outright refuses. Yes the door is open to all, Gods way, They must leave that religion it is no longer Gods. Yes 99% on earth are being mislead.
 
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