Was Calvin born again ?

[guest1]

Do any calvinists ever wonder why john calvin never mentions the new birth/ being born again in any way , shape or form in his writings as a testimony of his conversion ? Historical records show he always believed in infant baptism and that is when he was converted. He considered himself a "christian" at his infant baptism as a catholic.

Why would anyone follow a man and his teachings that was never born again ?

calvin from his institutes below :

" at whatever time we are baptised, we are washed and purified at once, for the whole of life we must recall our baptism so as to feel certain and secure of the remission of sins, it wipes and washes away all of our defilements " Calvins Institutes IV;xv,3


hope this helps !!!

 

[Sketo]

Could your OP be any more dishonest?

“…by repentance I understand regeneration, the only aim of which is to form us anew in the image of God, which was sullied, and all but effaced in the transgression of Adam.” (Institutes, III.3.ix)

When looking at Calvin’s view of ‘regeneration’, we should see clearly his identity between it and repentance. When he talks about one, he simultaneously speaks of the other. Most of his development of the idea of regeneration occurs when he talks about it under the name of “repentance.”

“This renewal, indeed, is not accomplished in a moment, a day, or a year, but by uninterrupted, sometimes even by slow progress God abolishes the remains of carnal corruption in his elect, cleanses them from pollution, and consecrates them as his temples, restoring all their inclinations to real purity, so that during their whole lives they may practice repentance, and know that death is the only termination to this warfare.” (III.3.ix)

Again not even Calvin taught God determined his Storyline by snapping his fingers. Calvin recognized God includes creatures actions as God’s means to his purposed ends.

…

 

[Leatherneck0311]

Do any calvinists ever wonder why john calvin never mentions the new birth/ being born again in any way , shape or form in his writings as a testimony of his conversion ? Historical records show he always believed in infant baptism and that is when he was converted. He considered himself a "christian" at his infant baptism as a catholic.

Why would anyone follow a man and his teachings that was never born again ?

calvin from his institutes below :

" at whatever time we are baptised, we are washed and purified at once, for the whole of life we must recall our baptism so as to feel certain and secure of the remission of sins, it wipes and washes away all of our defilements " Calvins Institutes IV;xv,3


hope this helps !!!

Calvinist seem to have fallen into the same trap that Roman Catholics have. Both take several verses and then force all of scripture into their proof texts, and then beat their chest in victory while telling all that they are right and telling everyone else they are wrong. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

 

[guest1]

Calvinist seem to have fallen into the same trap that Roman Catholics have. Both take several verses and then force all of scripture into their proof texts, and then beat their chest in victory while telling all that they are right and telling everyone else they are wrong. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Yes notice no testimony on the new birth, just theological mumbo jumbo in his writings. No personal experience with the Holy Spirit. Its just a theological/ mental assent in his writings. His writings are based upon legalism since he was a lawyer and not trained theologian. He was an augustinian and quoted him over 400 times in the institutes.

hope this helps !!!

 

[CrowCross]

Do any calvinists ever wonder why john calvin never mentions the new birth/ being born again in any way , shape or form in his writings as a testimony of his conversion ? Historical records show he always believed in infant baptism and that is when he was converted. He considered himself a "christian" at his infant baptism as a catholic.

Why would anyone follow a man and his teachings that was never born again ?

calvin from his institutes below :

" at whatever time we are baptised, we are washed and purified at once, for the whole of life we must recall our baptism so as to feel certain and secure of the remission of sins, it wipes and washes away all of our defilements " Calvins Institutes IV;xv,3


hope this helps !!!

Just for the record....here's the whole quote and not a snippet spun to demonize another christian.

3. Nor is it to be supposed that baptism is bestowed only with reference to the past, so that, in regard to new lapses into which we fall after baptism, we must seek new remedies of expiation in other so-called sacraments, just as if the power of baptism had become obsolete. To this error, in ancient times, it was owing that some refused to be initiated by baptism until their life was in extreme danger, and they were drawing their last breath, that they might thus obtain pardon for all the past. Against this preposterous precaution ancient bishops frequently inveigh in their writings. We ought to consider that at whatever time we are baptised, we are washed and purified once for the whole of life. Wherefore, as often as we fall, we must recall the remembrance of our baptism, and thus fortify our minds, so as to feel certain and secure of the remission of sins. For though, when once administered, it seems to have passed, it is not abolished by subsequent sins. For the purity of Christ was therein offered to us, always is in force, and is not destroyed by any stain: it wipes and washes away all our defilements. Nor must we hence assume a licence of sinning for the future (there is certainly nothing in it to countenance such audacity), but this doctrine is intended only for those who, when they have sinned, groan under their sins burdened and oppressed, that they may have wherewith to support and console themselves, and not rush headlong into despair. Thus Paul says that Christ was made a propitiation for us for the remission of sins that are past (Rom.3:25). By this he denies not that constant and perpetual forgiveness of sins is thereby obtained even till death: he only intimates that it is designed by the Father for those poor sinners who, wounded by remorse of conscience, sigh for the physician. To these the mercy of God is offered. Those who, from hopes of impunity, seek a licence for sin, only provoke the wrath and justice of God.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

Yes notice no testimony on the new birth, just theological mumbo jumbo in his writings. No personal experience with the Holy Spirit. Its just a theological/ mental assent in his writings. His writings are based upon legalism since he was a lawyer and not trained theologian. He was an augustinian and quoted him over 400 times in the institutes.

hope this helps !!!

I love C.H. Spurgeons sermons I have a 3 volume work of his sermons. I can read and grow from his sermons without agreeing with all of his theology. The only human I agree with 100% was hung on a cross for my sins. The apostles even had disagreements among themselves over who was following the Lord in truth, which it took Jesus to straighten out. When folks run to everyone except Jesus to try to understand God’s truth and ways IMO they do themselves a great harm. Those who folks look to for truth from scripture always pointed to who ? Answer: JESUS never to themselves, but now some are pitting what the apostles taught against the teachings of Jesus never understanding that Jesus gave them the message and truth. Side note: I actually had a Calvinist on another forum tell me that Paul was the “I am”. When I told him there is only one “I am” he told me Paul was the “I am “ since he revealed a mystery, which in truth Jesus had already revealed.

 

[guest1]

I love C.H. Spurgeons sermons I have a 3 volume work of his sermons. I can read and grow from his sermons without agreeing with all of his theology. The only human I agree with 100% was hung on a cross for my sins. The apostles even had disagreements among themselves over who was following the Lord in truth, which it took Jesus to straighten out. When folks run to everyone except Jesus to try to understand God’s truth and ways IMO they do themselves a great harm. Those who folks look to for truth from scripture always pointed to who ? Answer: JESUS never to themselves, but now some are pitting what the apostles taught against the teachings of Jesus never understanding that Jesus gave them the message and truth. Side note: I actually had a Calvinist on another forum tell me that Paul was the “I am”. When I told him there is only one “I am” he told me Paul was the “I am “ since he revealed a mystery, which in truth Jesus had already revealed.

I have some Spurgeon quotes that are 100% Arminian and oppose Calvinism . I’ll get them for this thread and post them

 

[Theo1689]

Was Calvin born again?

I have to wonder why you are so OBSESSED with Calvin...

But to answer your question, I have no reason to believe that he wasn't, but even so, it doesn't matter because I'm not his judge. His salvation doesn't affect me at all.

Do any calvinists ever wonder why john calvin never mentions the new birth/ being born again in any way , shape or form in his writings as a testimony of his conversion ?

He wrote a systematic theology, and a series of commentaries, not a "testimony".
And unless you have an exhaustive collection of his sermons on SermonAudio, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Historical records show he always believed in infant baptism and that is when he was converted. He considered himself a "christian" at his infant baptism as a catholic.

So what?
Are you claiming we have to have a perfect theology in order to be saved?
"Salvation by theology exam"?

Why would anyone follow a man and his teachings that was never born again ?

First of all, we don't follow "Calvin's" teachings, we follow the Lord Christ's. And if Calvin also followed the Lord Christ's teachings, I don't understand why you think that's a problem.

As for your uncharitable claim that Calvin was "never born again" (again, why the obsession?!), then I'll leave it God to deal with you.

calvin from his institutes below :

" at whatever time we are baptised, we are washed and purified at once, for the whole of life we must recall our baptism so as to feel certain and secure of the remission of sins, it wipes and washes away all of our defilements " Calvins Institutes IV;xv,3

Why are you so obsessed with Calvin?!

I have some Spurgeon quotes that are 100% Arminian and oppose Calvinism . I’ll get them for this thread and post them

Again, so what?
Why are you so afraid to read the BIBLE?!

You've been whining and ranting about us allegedly following the teachings of a "man", as if that's wrong, and now you WANT us to follow a man, when you think it serves your purpose?
Double standards much?

And I doubt you'll be able to find any quotes of Spurgeon which "oppose Calvinism" in the first place, unless you first twist them and rip them out of context.

 

[Theo1689]

Calvinist seem to have fallen into the same trap that Roman Catholics have. Both take several verses and then force all of scripture into their proof texts, and then beat their chest in victory while telling all that they are right and telling everyone else they are wrong. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Sounds like you're simply describing yourself.
Just sayin'.

 

[CookedGoose]

Calvinist seem to have fallen into the same trap that Roman Catholics have. Both take several verses and then force all of scripture into their proof texts, and then beat their chest in victory while telling all that they are right and telling everyone else they are wrong. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Who's "they?"

How could anyone (including Calvinists) claim "all are right".......while at the same time claim "everyone else is wrong?"

"All" "everyone" "world" need qualifiers, they (meaning these 3 words, not every single person) "always" have a context that needs to be identified.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

Who's "they?"

How could anyone (including Calvinists) claim "all are right".......while at the same time claim "everyone else is wrong?"

"All" "everyone" "world" need qualifiers, they (meaning these 3 words, not every single person) "always" have a context that needs to be identified.

The post pretty much speaks for itself.

 

[Theo1689]

The post pretty much speaks for itself.

So does Scripture.
Which is why we don't need you to "twist" it for us.

 

[guest1]

The post pretty much speaks for itself.

yep

 

[guest1]

Here spurgeon contradicts calvin .

I know there are some who think it necessary to their system of theology to limit the merit of the blood of Jesus: if my theological system needed such limitation, I would cast it to the winds. I cannot, I dare not, allow the thought to find lodging in my mind, it seems so near akin to blasphemy. In Christ’s finished work I see an ocean of merit; my plummet finds no bottom, my eye discerns no shore. There must be sufficient efficacy in the blood of Christ, if God had so willed it to have saved not only all in this world, but all in ten thousand worlds….Having a divine Person for an offering, it is not consistent to conceive of limited value; bound and measure are terms inapplicable to the divine sacrifice. The intent of the divine purpose fixes the I know there are some who think it necessary to their system of theology to limit the merit of the blood of Jesus: if my theological system needed such limitation, I would cast it to the winds. I cannot, I dare not, allow the thought to find lodging in my mind, it seems so near akin to blasphemy. In Christ’s finished work I see an ocean of merit; my plummet finds no bottom, my eye discerns no shore. There must be sufficient efficacy in the blood of Christ, if God had so willed it to have saved not only all in this world, but all in ten thousand worlds….Having a divine Person for an offering, it is not consistent to conceive of limited value; bound and measure are terms inapplicable to the divine sacrifice. The intent of the divine purpose fixes the application of the infinite offering, but does not change it into a finite work. “Number One Thousand; Or, ‘Bread Enough and to Spare’” http://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/charles_spurgeon/sermons/1000.html.

hope this helps !!!

 

[CookedGoose]

"All" "everyone" "world" need qualifiers, they (meaning these 3 words, not every single person) "always" have a context that needs to be identified.

The post pretty much speaks for itself.

yep

Wait a minute, this is new. Are you and Chalcedon requiring me to put a qualifier on "always", maybe you're wondering if I'm including "before the foundation of the world"?

I think you get the point. Basically in my view, you're building a theology from the bible by taking selected (isolated) verses which include words such as "world" and "all" and either removing all (meaning every single) qualifier or only applying the ones you like, ending up with varying forms of free will.

 

[guest1]

Wait a minute, this is new. Are you and Chalcedon requiring me to put a qualifier on "always", maybe you're wondering if I'm including "before the foundation of the world"?

I think you get the point. Basically in my view, you're building a theology from the bible by taking selected (isolated) verses which include words such as "world" and "all" and either removing all (meaning every single) qualifier or only applying the ones you like, ending up with varying forms of free will.

When Jesus promised His disciples that the world will persecute them and hate them as it hated Him what did He mean by the world ?

 

[Theo1689]

Here spurgeon contradicts calvin .

I know there are some who think it necessary to their system of theology to limit the merit of the blood of Jesus: if my theological system needed such limitation, I would cast it to the winds. I cannot, I dare not, allow the thought to find lodging in my mind, it seems so near akin to blasphemy. In Christ’s finished work I see an ocean of merit; my plummet finds no bottom, my eye discerns no shore. There must be sufficient efficacy in the blood of Christ, if God had so willed it to have saved not only all in this world, but all in ten thousand worlds….Having a divine Person for an offering, it is not consistent to conceive of limited value; bound and measure are terms inapplicable to the divine sacrifice. The intent of the divine purpose fixes the I know there are some who think it necessary to their system of theology to limit the merit of the blood of Jesus: if my theological system needed such limitation, I would cast it to the winds. I cannot, I dare not, allow the thought to find lodging in my mind, it seems so near akin to blasphemy. In Christ’s finished work I see an ocean of merit; my plummet finds no bottom, my eye discerns no shore. There must be sufficient efficacy in the blood of Christ, if God had so willed it to have saved not only all in this world, but all in ten thousand worlds….Having a divine Person for an offering, it is not consistent to conceive of limited value; bound and measure are terms inapplicable to the divine sacrifice. The intent of the divine purpose fixes the application of the infinite offering, but does not change it into a finite work. “Number One Thousand; Or, ‘Bread Enough and to Spare’” http://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/charles_spurgeon/sermons/1000.html.

hope this helps !!!

Just as I expected... NOTHING there contradicts Calvinism.
And you rip his teachings out of context by IGNORING his teaching on election.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

Wait a minute, this is new. Are you and Chalcedon requiring me to put a qualifier on "always", maybe you're wondering if I'm including "before the foundation of the world"?

I think you get the point. Basically in my view, you're building a theology from the bible by taking selected (isolated) verses which include words such as "world" and "all" and either removing all (meaning every single) qualifier or only applying the ones you like, ending up with varying forms of free will.

Does “always” mean sometimes or every now and then ? Does “world” only mean 1 country or 2 countries ? How about “all” does than mean a 1/2 dozen ? The context these words have been used in scripture is clear if a bias or particular theology doesn’t corrupt the meaning of the words as they are written in scripture.

 

[Howie]

Do any calvinists ever wonder why john calvin never mentions the new birth/ being born again in any way , shape or form in his writings as a testimony of his conversion ? Historical records show he always believed in infant baptism and that is when he was converted. He considered himself a "christian" at his infant baptism as a catholic.

Why would anyone follow a man and his teachings that was never born again ?

calvin from his institutes below :

" at whatever time we are baptised, we are washed and purified at once, for the whole of life we must recall our baptism so as to feel certain and secure of the remission of sins, it wipes and washes away all of our defilements " Calvins Institutes IV;xv,3


hope this helps !!!

You're projecting.

I follow the teachings of Scripture.

 

[Howie]

Calvinist seem to have fallen into the same trap that Roman Catholics have. Both take several verses and then force all of scripture into their proof texts, and then beat their chest in victory while telling all that they are right and telling everyone else they are wrong. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

King James Only folks are notorius for doing that.