Was God The Son the one who spoke to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden?

Truther

Active member
God the Son left heaven and became a man...The human side of Jesus is not God...and yet at the same time he still remains GOD.
God the Son became a sperm cell to mate with a woman's egg?

I thought she was found with child of the Holy Ghost?

Maybe the Holy Ghost inseminated God the Son into her egg cell?
 

all4Him

Member
Greetings again "The-Plural-One-God",

The world was made with Jesus in mind, but it was the One God, Yahweh, God the Father that created all things Psalm 110:1, Psalm 8:1-3, Matthew 11:25-30. Jesus is the agent or creator of the New Creation. Jesus is a human, a descendant of Adam through Mary his mother, the Son of God because God the Father was his father.

Kind regards
Trevor
Why can't the scriptures means what they say?

Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.

Heb 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world.

Col 1:16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

What is in these verses that implies creation were done with Jesus in mind? If you take this verses at face value (and I do) it is very clear the Son existed before His incarnation (He is before all things) and all things were created through Him. It would be helpful if you would give scriptural support for your assertions.
 
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TrevorL

Member
Greetings all4Him,
Why can't the scriptures means what they say?
Yes I agree we should rely upon what the Scriptures teach about the Creation, but I prefer to start with Genesis 1-3 and Psalm 8. When we are finished here, then you can test your references against what these clearly teach.

Perhaps one further comment and question on the passages that you quote, and the following may be typical of how you use or misuse them all. You seem to be relying on a translation that is based upon a faulty manuscript. How can you beget a God?
Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 1:18 (KJV): No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

all4Him

Member
Greetings all4Him,

Yes I agree we should rely upon what the Scriptures teach about the Creation, but I prefer to start with Genesis 1-3 and Psalm 8. When we are finished here, then you can test your references against what these clearly teach.

Perhaps one further comment and question on the passages that you quote, and the following may be typical of how you use or misuse them all. You seem to be relying on a translation that is based upon a faulty manuscript. How can you beget a God?

John 1:18 (KJV): No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Kind regards
Trevor

I find it interesting that Oneness tend to make accusations without having all the evidence. Maybe your understand of the Greek term monogenēs; lacks understanding. The term implies eternally begotten, not used in the same way your were begotten of your parents. Besides, the context of this verse supports the use of theos.

A.T. Roberton : The only begotten Son (ho monogenēs huios). This is the reading of the Textus Receptus and is intelligible after hōs monogenous para patros in Joh_1:14. But the best old Greek manuscripts (Aleph B C L) read monogenēs theos (God only begotten) which is undoubtedly the true text.

John Gill : And to the same purpose the Targum of Jonathan, and also Jarchi, on the same place. The Syriac version here renders it, "the only begotten, God which is in the bosom of the Father"; clearly showing, that he is the only begotten, as he is God: the phrase,
 
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all4Him

Member
Greetings again "The-Plural-One-God",

The world was made with Jesus in mind, but it was the One God, Yahweh, God the Father that created all things Psalm 110:1, Psalm 8:1-3, Matthew 11:25-30. Jesus is the agent or creator of the New Creation. Jesus is a human, a descendant of Adam through Mary his mother, the Son of God because God the Father was his father.

Kind regards
Trevor

Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.

Joh 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Joh 6:46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.

Joh 6:62 “What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

Joh 8:23 And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.

Joh 16:28 “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; again, I am leaving the world and going to the Father.”

Rev 3:21 ‘The one who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne.

These are just a few verses if taken at face value refute the Oneness doctrine.
 

TrevorL

Member
Greetings again all4Him,
I find it interesting that Oneness tend to make accusations without having all the evidence. Maybe your understand of the Greek term monogenēs; lacks understanding. The term implies eternally begotten, not used in the same way your were begotten of your parents. Besides, the context of this verse supports the use of theos.
I am not Oneness, but believe that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that Jesus is the Son of God. The begettal of Jesus is mentioned in the list of the descendants of Abraham and David.
Matthew 1:20-21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived (mg Gk: begotten) in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
The term implies eternally begotten, not used in the same way your were begotten of your parents. Besides, the context of this verse supports the use of theos.
A.T. Roberton : The only begotten Son (ho monogenēs huios). This is the reading of the Textus Receptus and is intelligible after hōs monogenous para patros in Joh_1:14. But the best old Greek manuscripts (Aleph B C L) read monogenēs theos (God only begotten) which is undoubtedly the true text.
John Gill : And to the same purpose the Targum of Jonathan, and also Jarchi, on the same place. The Syriac version here renders it, "the only begotten, God which is in the bosom of the Father"; clearly showing, that he is the only begotten, as he is God: the phrase,
As I stated and claim, God can not be begotten. This is part of the nonsense that Trinitarians need to claim to answer what the Scriptures clearly teach that Jesus is God's only begotten Son.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

all4Him

Member
Greetings again all4Him,

I am not Oneness, but believe that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that Jesus is the Son of God. The begettal of Jesus is mentioned in the list of the descendants of Abraham and David.
Matthew 1:20-21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived (mg Gk: begotten) in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The word "conceived" in the Greek is gennaō;

from γέννα genna (descent, birth); to beget, to bring forth: — bear (1), bearing children (1), became the father of (4), became...father (1), begotten (4), bore (1), born (41), Child (1), conceived (1), father (37), Father (1), gave (1), gives birth (1), produce (1).

The word begotten in John 1:18 is monogenēs;

from G3441 and G1085; only begotten: — only (3), only begotten (6).

NASB: Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; God the only Son, who is in the arms of the Father, He has explained Him.

As I stated and claim, God can not be begotten. This is part of the nonsense that Trinitarians need to claim to answer what the Scriptures clearly teach that Jesus is God's only begotten Son.

Not in the sense you understand the term begotten. Regardless, the term is used of "God the only Son," or "only begotten God." whether or not you agree doesn't change the truth. Many scholars agree with the original manuscripts. I noticed that you ignore the proof I share with you.
 

TrevorL

Member
Greetings again All4Him,
The word begotten in John 1:18 is monogenēs;
Nevertheless Matthew 1:20-21 and also Luke 1:34-35 teach when and how Jesus is the only begotten Son.

The phrase “only begotten Son” also appears in the following:
John 3:16 (KJV): For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Many scholars agree with the original manuscripts. I noticed that you ignore the proof I share with you.
The reality is that there are two renditions based on two different manuscripts (or more). I rely upon the one that states “only begotten Son”. Trinitarians prefer the other.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

all4Him

Member
Greetings again All4Him,

Nevertheless Matthew 1:20-21 and also Luke 1:34-35 teach when and how Jesus is the only begotten Son.

The phrase “only begotten Son” also appears in the following:
John 3:16 (KJV): For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


The reality is that there are two renditions based on two different manuscripts (or more). I rely upon the one that states “only begotten Son”. Trinitarians prefer the other.

Kind regards
Trevor

I'm relaying on the same text you are, but apparently have a better understanding of the text. No matter what translation you use, the meaning is that the Son is eternally begotten is the same. You are using the term begotten incorrectly and it has become a stumbling block for you.

Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only (G3439) Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

monogenēs; from G3441 and G1085; only begotten: — only (3), only begotten (6).

The proof is in the prologue of John 1.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.

There is no mistaking that the Son is was with the Father in this passage. We can only have eternal life in an eternal God.


The Testimony of God

1Jn 5:9 If we receive the testimony of people, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son.
1Jn 5:10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.
1Jn 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1Jn 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
 

all4Him

Member
Greetings again All4Him,

Nevertheless Matthew 1:20-21 and also Luke 1:34-35 teach when and how Jesus is the only begotten Son.

The phrase “only begotten Son” also appears in the following:
John 3:16 (KJV): For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


The reality is that there are two renditions based on two different manuscripts (or more). I rely upon the one that states “only begotten Son”. Trinitarians prefer the other.

Kind regards
Trevor

It seems to me that you do not believe the Son is God, and you are a KJV only.

Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

2Pe 1:11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

Strongs -monogenēs
From G3441 and G1096; only born, that is, sole: - only (begotten, child).

KJV+ Joh 1:18 No manG3762 hath seenG3708 GodG2316 at any time;G4455 theG3588 only begottenG3439 Son,G5207 which isG5607 inG1519 theG3588 bosomG2859 of theG3588 Father,G3962 heG1565 hath declaredG1834 him.
 

TrevorL

Member
Greetings again All4Him,
I'm relaying on the same text you are, but apparently have a better understanding of the text. No matter what translation you use, the meaning is that the Son is eternally begotten is the same. You are using the term begotten incorrectly and it has become a stumbling block for you.
I consider that Jesus is a human, begotten by the Holy Spirit, and as such Jesus is the Son of God his father. I find no reference in the Bible to the concept of "eternally begotten" and this is a contradiction in terms and logic.
The proof is in the prologue of John 1.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
There is no mistaking that the Son is was with the Father in this passage. We can only have eternal life in an eternal God.
I understand that "The Word" in John 1:1 is a personification.
It seems to me that you do not believe the Son is God, and you are a KJV only.
I believe that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I use many translations, but I am cautious of some renditions that reveal bias and some errors in the KJV and other versions.

Kind regards
Trevor
.
 

Truther

Active member
Where does Jesus identify the Holy Spirit as his Father?
He said the Father is his Father(called Him Father).

Mary conceived of the Holy Ghost.

Since there are not 2 father's of Jesus, and the Father is by definition a Holy Spirit, then naturally the Father is the Holy Ghost.
 
He said the Father is his Father(called Him Father).

Mary conceived of the Holy Ghost.

Since there are not 2 father's of Jesus, and the Father is by definition a Holy Spirit, then naturally the Father is the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Spirit is never identified as his Father by Jesus...this should tell you and all other Oneness followers that God has an actual PLURAL existence.
Someone other than the Holy Spirit is Jesus Father and this "Father Status" was in heaven before he came to earth.
The Holy Spirit had his part in the Incarnation but that did not make him Jesus Father as the evidence says.
 

Truther

Active member
The Holy Spirit is never identified as his Father by Jesus...this should tell you and all other Oneness followers that God has an actual PLURAL existence.
Someone other than the Holy Spirit is Jesus Father and this "Father Status" was in heaven before he came to earth.
The Holy Spirit had his part in the Incarnation but that did not make him Jesus Father as the evidence says.
....that which is conceived in her is OF THE Holy Ghost.

Do you know what conceiving in "her" is?

The Holy Ghost was the biological father of Jesus.

But Jesus said the Father is his Father.

I just betcha, 2000 years ago, Jesus knew the Father was actually AKA the Holy Ghost.

I just betcha some nit wit mentally separated the Father from His Spirit 300 years later(RCC develops the official trin doctrine).
 

TrevorL

Member
Greetings Truther,
He said the Father is his Father(called Him Father).
Mary conceived of the Holy Ghost.
Since there are not 2 father's of Jesus, and the Father is by definition a Holy Spirit, then naturally the Father is the Holy Ghost.
No, the Holy Spirit is God the Father's power and therefore God the Father is the father of Jesus, the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Kade Rystalmane

Active member
The one who commanded Adam and Eve about the 2 Trees in the Garden of Eden was it God the Son?
I believe that God the Son has always been the go between for mankind and the Father. He spoke to them in the Garden, from the burning bush, in the wilderness, from the Temple, through the prophets, in many other times, places, and manners, and eventually in mortal form as Jesus of Nazareth. These "theophanies" are all God the Father communicating to man through God the Son.

I also believe that God the Son is Michael the Archangel (there is only one) and sometimes referred to as "the Angel of the Lord".
 

Kade Rystalmane

Active member
Greetings again “The-Plural-One-God”,

The expression “The only begotten GOD” is a contradiction in terms. God has always existed and cannot be begotten. The term the only begotten son refers to the fact that Jesus was conceived by God the Father, his father, in the womb of Mary his mother.
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived (mg Gk: begotten) in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 (KJV): No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:16 (KJV): For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Kind regards
Trevor
When and in what context was Christ begotten? You are focused on the physical/biological birth, but that's not why Jesus was the only begotten son of God. Acts 13:33 ties the idea of Jesus Christ being the begotten to His resurrection from the dead.

"God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."
 
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