Was it right for John MacArthur to conceal the fact that he had Covid?

shnarkle

Well-known member
May be I have an especial interest in hypocrisy. I'm allowed that liberty.
Sure, but you don't get to project it onto others without being called on it.
According to WHO and most of the countries in the world, many poeple have died.
They're dying "with" covid rather than "from" covid.
You're entering conspiracy theory territory with this one.
No I'm not. The CDC and the FDA concede in their files that the so-called “SARS-CoV-2 RT-PCR tests” are not suitable for SARS-CoV-2 diagnosis.

In the “CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel“ file from March 30, 2020 it says:

"Detection of viral RNA may not indicate the presence of infectious virus or that 2019-nCoV is the causative agent for clinical symptoms”

And:

"This test cannot rule out diseases caused by other bacterial or viral pathogens.”

And the FDA admits that:

"positive results […] do not rule out bacterial infection or co-infection with other viruses. The agent detected may not be the definite cause of disease.”



The instruction manuals of PCR tests state that they are not intended as a diagnostic test, as for instance in those by Altona Diagnostics and Creative Diagnostics


The LightMix Modular Assays produced by TIB Molbiol — which were developed using the Corman et al. protocol — and distributed by Roche we can read:

"These assays are not intended for use as an aid in the diagnosis of coronavirus infection”

And:

"For research use only. Not for use in diagnostic procedures.”



It is a deception in itself to classify an objectively testable and verifiable disease as a hoax or satanic deception.
Very true. See links above proving my point.
Being attached to a ventilator, not being able to breath, and dying from that outcome, is indicative of a COVID death.
No, it isn't.
I'm not going to discuss this with you further, because you are clearly under the influence of a CULT. Snap out of it.
See the above links. I can supply you with numerous other documents straight from the CDC, and NIH proving there is no pandemic. The CDC admitted that the PCR testing equipment isn't useful or accurate enough. That necessarily means the "cases" were false positives. There is no pandemic at all.

Your pointless Ad Hominem attacks render further discussion pointless.

Go with God.

Be blessed.
 
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cjab

Well-known member
It seems you're either into conspiracy theories, or you're not. But if you are, there is a high probability is that you'll also see COVID-19 as a conspiracy theory.
________

"The single best predictor of belief in one conspiracy theory is belief in another conspiracy theory: sometimes called “crank magnetism”, one form of quackery tends to attract another like a magnet."

"This fits with assumptions we often make about a person’s level of education when they subscribe to conspiracy theories. When people march with placards calling Covid a hoax and linking the virus to 5G, we tend dismiss them as idiots, or cite the Dunning-Kruger effect: the idea that stupid people don’t know they are stupid, and as such they walk around with delusions of intellectual grandeur. "

"As the COVID-19 crisis worsens, the world also faces a global misinformation pandemic. Conspiracy theories that behave like viruses themselves are spreading just as rapidly online as SARS-CoV-2 does offline. Here are the top 10 conspiracy theories making the rounds."

"Research shows that belief in one conspiracy theory tends to coincide with belief in others (see Douglas et al., 2019). This occurs because conspiracy theories typically cohere with the general proposition that important things are covered up or hidden from the public. For people who believe in one conspiracy theory, other conspiracies therefore also seem more plausible. This raises the worrying possibility that COVID-19 conspiracy theories could lead people down the “rabbit hole” to pursue other conspiracy theories."

"Fox News has been particularly scrutinized for its part in amplifying dangerous misinformation. In a phone survey of 1,000 randomly chosen Americans in early March6, communication researchers found that respondents who tended to get their information from mainstream broadcast and print media had more accurate ideas about the disease’s lethality and how to protect themselves from infection than did those who got their news mostly from conservative media (such as Fox News and Rush Limbaugh’s radio show) or from social media. That held true even after factors such as political affiliation, gender, age and education were controlled for."

_______

However, it's good to know that some pastors are behaving responsibly

"These Pastors Are Spreading the Good News About the COVID-19 Vaccine"
 

eternomade

Well-known member
For me part of the issue is Lordship Salvation and where a person finds their surety. Both Arminian and Calvinist camps have those that embrace and promote it. IMV, people simply do good works because they are saved. I believe the way the Reformed, at least some of them, go about it, they find motivation in the law to do good works. At least that is what I make of it. Lutherans don't march to that beat. 🙂
I am not Lutheran nor do I know much about it but I see this as well among the Presbyterian and Baptists that are "Reformed Lordship Salvation".
 
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Nic

Well-known member
There seem to be two types of pastor: those who peddle the word of God for profit, and those who don't.

2Co 2:17 "Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God."

Interesting that Paul is insinuating that those who peddle the word of God for profit "don't" speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.
Addressed to: Cjab,
The former would be wrongly termed a pastor. Peddling God's word sounds a lot like simony to me.
I do believe hoarding things yes even cash can be a lack of faith, but not necessarily so. I also think the exceptions would be more rare if not scarce, but that's just my conjecture and guess. Stockpiling grain was a form of hoarding but in faith for Joseph.
I am not Lutheran nor do I know much about it but I see this as well among the Presbyterian and Baptists that are "Reformed Lordship Salvation".
Addressed to: eternomade,
You are also Reformed in theology, just to confirm?
In my opinion, many Baptists can be legalist without the added layer of Lordship Salvation, so for them, maybe it's business as usual. I like Grace Evangelical Society [GES] somewhat if I had to pick a camp that wasn't Lutheran that may be my first choice. It's my understanding GES had Lutgeran influences. Unfortunately it didn't carry all the way over our they'd Lutheran.
Before I became a Lutheran all I knew was they were a liturgical church with the sacraments and I knew nothing else. I became a Lutheran by observing the conversations within the Lutheran forum. I had been burned so many times, it took 8 years, I was in no hurry. I had my fill of emotional/spiritual rollercoaster rides with churches who knew only to confuse the law with the gospel. As a result. I can smell legalism from far off.
 
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eternomade

Well-known member
You are also Reformed in theology, just to confirm?
Yes, I believe the 1689 LBC to be closest to my understanding of scripture, for the most part.

In my opinion, many Baptists can be legalist without the added layer of Lordship Salvation, so for them, maybe it's business as usual. I like Grace Evangelical Society [GES] somewhat if I had to pick a camp that wasn't Lutheran that may be my first choice. It's my understanding GES had Lutgeran influences. Unfortunately it didn't carry all the way over our they'd Lutheran.
Before I became a Lutheran all I knew was they were a liturgical church with the sacraments and I knew nothing else. I became a Lutheran by observing the conversations within the Lutheran forum. I had been burned so many times, it took 8 years, I was in no hurry. I had my fill of emotional/spiritual rollercoaster rides with churches who knew only to confuse the law with the gospel. As a result. I can smell legalism from far off.
Defintely a case by case basis for ANY denomination. Thank you for the recommendation of GES, I'll look into it.
 

Nic

Well-known member

eternomade

Well-known member
Agreed. Yes and a heads up on GES, they and the Reformed are often pitting one against the other. GES is also sometimes referred to as free grace. Their homepage is faithalone.org.
Oh I see. I am familiar with "free grace" as well. I just read their "affirmations of belief". I know opponents will refer to it as "easy believism" or "cheap grace". I believe Steven Anderson of Tempe, AZ is an example of this being taught.

I do reject both of those doctrines in favor of "sovereign free grace". This means that the gospel is the "person and work of Jesus Christ". Who He is and what He did. All of salvation is of God. He is sovereign over salvation as well. Sanctification is by God's grace. Man plays no part, except for the sin he/she contributes. I am posting a screenshot here so you can get a better idea maybe if there is any confusion. I would be in the high/ultra high Calvinism. It's an interesting chart.Levels of Calvinism.jpg

Are there any resourses I could read about the Lutheran view of Salvation? I believe that TULIP is Biblical, do Lutherans?
 
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Nic

Well-known member
I disagree with point 6 as a Lutheran.
I think Lutherans agree more with Tulip than some Lutherans may even recognize. At least was the case for me a few years ago.
I believe to view Lutheranism one must take a Lutheran view of reading the Scriptures just as Lutheran tries to understand Reformed views one has begin with their paradigm.
Reformed; Theo-centered.
Lutheran; Christ-centered.
To the Reformed everything flows from their starting point as it does with Lutherans.
One often touted big difference is the use of reason in the two systems. For Lutherans reason is the handmaid of scripture. This often is often said to be the most distinctive characteristic that sets Lutherans apart from the rest of Christianity. We reject scholasticism not dissimilar from that of the Orthodox. Here's a message that both Reformed and Lutherans Get behind, The Gospel for Those Broken by the Church. I have to run but I'll check in later and see what else I may add.
 

Nic

Well-known member

This is nonsense. Most of this is generated by Ms. Julie Roys. She is a serial liar.

Thanks for the video it's a bit long. I'm 30 minutes in and my browser locked up while attempting to configure a response. For me, if it's an issue, the Reformed camp will be the ones who deal with it. I don't believe there is any type of cover up. I think John M. is probably a savvy business guy. There will always be witch hunts.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Oh I see. I am familiar with "free grace" as well. I just read their "affirmations of belief". I know opponents will refer to it as "easy believism" or "cheap grace". I believe Steven Anderson of Tempe, AZ is an example of this being taught.

I do reject both of those doctrines in favor of "sovereign free grace". This means that the gospel is the "person and work of Jesus Christ". Who He is and what He did. All of salvation is of God. He is sovereign over salvation as well. Sanctification is by God's grace. Man plays no part, except for the sin he/she contributes. I am posting a screenshot here so you can get a better idea maybe if there is any confusion. I would be in the high/ultra high Calvinism. It's an interesting chart.View attachment 1831

Are there any resourses I could read about the Lutheran view of Salvation? I believe that TULIP is Biblical, do Lutherans?
Of the various Reformed commentaries before I was a Lutheran, I enjoyed citing John Gill from time to time, some Calvinist here would criticize my citing him, I never really knew why? An online Lutheran Commentary would be Paul E. Kretzmann Popular Commentary. For the best source of Lutheran beliefs our symbols are online too and available in a download searchable PDF file from the symbols link above. It seems they changed the format from the previous layout but the content hasn't changed. I preferred the old layout.
 

Nic

Well-known member
Oh I see. I am familiar with "free grace" as well. I just read their "affirmations of belief". I know opponents will refer to it as "easy believism" or "cheap grace". I believe Steven Anderson of Tempe, AZ is an example of this being taught.

I do reject both of those doctrines in favor of "sovereign free grace". This means that the gospel is the "person and work of Jesus Christ". Who He is and what He did. All of salvation is of God. He is sovereign over salvation as well. Sanctification is by God's grace. Man plays no part, except for the sin he/she contributes. I am posting a screenshot here so you can get a better idea maybe if there is any confusion. I would be in the high/ultra high Calvinism. It's an interesting chart.View attachment 1831

Are there any resourses I could read about the Lutheran view of Salvation? I believe that TULIP is Biblical, do Lutherans?
I see sanctification in two senses wide and narrow. In the wide sense, Christ himself is our sanctification. In the narrow sense we submit ourselves to the will of God towards holiness.
As for #6 above and much of my comments although I'm trying to be accurate, I'm also paraphrasing so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Recall earlier I said Lutherans and Calvinists approach the scriptures differently. They were a Christ-centered reading vs a Theo-centered reading. With that said, as I refer to the chart first point #6, it says, >>Beliefs, The Calvinist over emphasis of God's Sovereignty over man's responsibility.<< I do recognize there may be some truth to this statement, it's just I've never seen it out exactly like this. This was at least in part why I rejected numeral six. I also think there is too much room for varying contexts as to what is meant or to be understood as man's responsibility. The way I hear Lutherans speak of God's Sovereignty is in the affirming sense. The predisposing qualifier for not beginning at the Reformed start point is because we will say that although we know God is indeed Sovereign we place doubt over the premise that scriptures primary theme and emphasis to mankind is Sovereignty first, but rather we see the Person and Work of Christ as the paramount message of scripture to mankind. We interpret scripture accordingly with Christ always in view.
So I'm not sure about what is intended by "man's responsibility" with the chart above, but Lutherans are strict synergist.
Continuing with the second point of beliefs on #6, >>That Christ died for all in a legal sense<< this seems close enough if not accurate, >>That some are predestined on to life, but none are predestined onto death.<< This also seems accurate yet predestination isn't something I've come across too often in my experience as a Lutheran.
The next statement from numeral six reads, >>That the sacraments are a means of grace regardless of one's faith.<< This seems wrong to me. A Lutheran defines a sacrament as an earthly element with God's word and promise of the forgiveness of sins comprehended in the rite. Without God's word it isn't a sacrament. Although there is a lot of information on the sacraments with the symbols link I offered earlier, I thought I give you a few bullet points in attempts to clarify by reference what the sacarament does.
In Baptism a person enters the church and receives faith. Baptism is the means that God's pours out his Spirit on all flesh. Baptizing and teaching in NO specific order is how we makes disciples.
In The Lord's Supper our sins are forgiven our faith is sustained.
One other point to make mention aside from the sacraments Lutherans believe the gospel isn't exclusively for the lost, but believers need to hear it repeatedly too.
 
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Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Oh I see. I am familiar with "free grace" as well. I just read their "affirmations of belief". I know opponents will refer to it as "easy believism" or "cheap grace". I believe Steven Anderson of Tempe, AZ is an example of this being taught.

I do reject both of those doctrines in favor of "sovereign free grace". This means that the gospel is the "person and work of Jesus Christ". Who He is and what He did. All of salvation is of God. He is sovereign over salvation as well. Sanctification is by God's grace. Man plays no part, except for the sin he/she contributes. I am posting a screenshot here so you can get a better idea maybe if there is any confusion. I would be in the high/ultra high Calvinism. It's an interesting chart.View attachment 1831

Are there any resourses I could read about the Lutheran view of Salvation? I believe that TULIP is Biblical, do Lutherans?
Someday, I will share how Steven Anderson sent me running to reformed theology. James White made a video regarding Anderson's shameful behavior and harassment of the border control.

 

civic

Well-known member
Thanks for the video it's a bit long. I'm 30 minutes in and my browser locked up while attempting to configure a response. For me, if it's an issue, the Reformed camp will be the ones who deal with it. I don't believe there is any type of cover up. I think John M. is probably a savvy business guy. There will always be witch hunts.
Ditto
 
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RiJoRi

Well-known member
Someday, I will share how Steven Anderson sent me running to reformed theology. James White made a video regarding Anderson's shameful behavior and harassment of the border control.
I read the article. First I wondered if this guy thinks my late father-in-law was hallucinating about the death camp he saw? visited? Then I wondered, whatever happened to Matthew?

Matt 5:44-45 [KJV] But I [Jesus] say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

God help them...
--Rich
 
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